http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/0...index.html
U.S. Navy warships are surrounded by Iranian vessels early Sunday morning in the Strait of Hormuz which are international waters...
This is pathetic. How can we let them say "I am coming at you, You will explode is a couple of minutes" after repeated warnings..the Navy even let them drop white boxes in front of one of the warships without knowing what they contained. The USS Hopper warned the boats repeatedly to back off and identify themselves before the threatening radio transmissions and before the boxes were dropped and they still didn't destroy them. I think this is a horrible move on the Navy's part. They should have made the order to fire on them after the transmissions...the Army or Marines would have never let this happen. The Iranian boats would be at the bottom of the ocean....
What are your stances on this?
vundy33 Wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/0...index.html
U.S. Navy warships are surrounded by Iranian vessels early Sunday morning in the Strait of Hormuz which are international waters...
This is pathetic. How can we let them say "I am coming at you, You will explode is a couple of minutes" after repeated warnings..the Navy even let them drop white boxes in front of one of the warships without knowing what they contained. The USS Hopper warned the boats repeatedly to back off and identify themselves before the threatening radio transmissions and before the boxes were dropped and they still didn't destroy them. I think this is a horrible move on the Navy's part. They should have made the order to fire on them after the transmissions...the Army or Marines would have never let this happen. The Iranian boats would be at the bottom of the ocean....
What are your stances on this?
Warn then fire. It is time for all of us to come to terms with the fact that Islam is a religion of hatred.
Chuck Taylor Wrote:Warn then fire. It is time for all of us to come to terms with the fact that Islam is a religion of hatred.
I don't even know if we need to warn after that: the United States has become soft and we need to quit "being diplomatic and asking nicely that people be nice to us."
We help the rest of the world; we try to keep peace, and we get attacked. Excuse my language but we need to grow a pair and start controlling the people who attack and try to control us.
BFritz Wrote:I don't even know if we need to warn after that: the United States has become soft and we need to quit "being diplomatic and asking nicely that people be nice to us."
We help the rest of the world; we try to keep peace, and we get attacked. Excuse my language but we need to grow a pair and start controlling the people who attack and try to control us.
Exactly...when we were first in Mosul EVERYTHING walking was a target...That's not to say that we killed civilians on purpose, it was just from the experiences in Baghdad. Almost every male that would be in view of our convoy was an insurgent. They would stand in the street in normal clothes and then when we would order them to move or get out to search them (this was for the only ones that looked like insurgents...when we were in combat everything that was in our way had to die) they would pull a pistol or an AK-47 out and fire on us. Those in the street would be killed but more would just start popping up out of houses and shoot at us from the top...what are we supposed to do? We can't just let them shoot at us just because we're afraid to hurt or kill a civilian.
Sorry I got sidetracked for a moment but I agree, the U.S. has become soft. We need to stop listening to all this anti-war activists and just do what has to be done.
Chuck Taylor Wrote:Warn then fire. It is time for all of us to come to terms with the fact that Islam is a religion of hatred.
Have you read the Koran by any chance?
The Navy lucked out this time. The next time they might find a big hole in the side of one of their ships. Do they not remember the USS Cole incident. I don't think that we should allow any aggressive boats of any type anywhere near one of our ships. Especially if they are making threatening statements. The boats should have been blown out of the water by our ships. Putting up with this sort of crap is ridiculous!! For all we know, this could have been a practice run on the Iranians part. Next time they may dump out mines or blow up one of their boats near our ships.
I have sailed through the Straits of Hormuz on a US Naval Vessel and Let me tell you this, you can see BOTH shores Oman on one side and Iran on the other. Not a good feeling, Iran had portable missles lined up and down their coast line. Its a very tight squeeze for and aircraft carrier. Escorts are normal but this was an act of war IMO.
DevilsWin Wrote:I have sailed through the Straits of Hormuz on a US Naval Vessel and Let me tell you this, you can see BOTH shores Oman on one side and Iran on the other. Not a good feeling, Iran had portable missles lined up and down their coast line. Its a very tight squeeze for and aircraft carrier. Escorts are normal but this was an act of war IMO.
Wow. Nice description. Can't imagine seeing that.
DevilsWin Wrote:I have sailed through the Straits of Hormuz on a US Naval Vessel and Let me tell you this, you can see BOTH shores Oman on one side and Iran on the other. Not a good feeling, Iran had portable missles lined up and down their coast line. Its a very tight squeeze for and aircraft carrier. Escorts are normal but this was an act of war IMO.
Very true...I didn't go as close as you or those other ships have but I flew on a CH-47 through there and could barely see the Iranian coast. I looked through my scope and could see the Guard there...it's like there just waiting on us to make a mistake. IMO we will be at war with them in 2-3 years...we better get our **** strait in Iraq and rest up. A war with Iran would be a bloody one. There military doesn't quiet stack up to ours but they have the support of almost every terrorist organization in the world. I think if we go to war with them and for some crazy reason Israel decides to join, there could very possibly be a WWIII. I know those are some serious statements but it could happen...if Israel happened to attack Iran then most muslim nations would have to join in.
I agree on the point of erring on the side of caution in circumstances of immediate threat is dangerous to the lives of the forces in harm's way. However, to take the "bomb 'em, bomb 'em" approach would have precipitated a possible full scale nuclear disaster in the Cuban missile crisis. A show of will, of "we will not stand idly by" AND diplomatic negotiations, including an amazing exchange of letters between Krucshev (?) and Kennedy, prevented a possible catastrophe. Also, the threat of being blown out of the water does not impact a radical extremist Muslim in the same way in does the average Joe.
Make no mistake. If we go to war with Iran it will be due to a minor skirmish. They want to fight us, so don't kid yourselves. They want to provoke us into doing something that we will regret later. Don't count out Putin and Russia partnering up with them to try to bring America down. This is not a joke or a drill. Those crazy SOB's wanna have it out with us and they think they can win. We are the modern day equivalent to the Roman Empire in their eyes.
IMO we ARE the modern day equivalent to the Roman Empire...I think it would be a horrible mistake for Russia to join up with Iran...I think the chance they would do something like that is very low. No single or group of countries would be able to take down the U.S. and our allies.
vundy33 Wrote:IMO we ARE the modern day equivalent to the Roman Empire...I think it would be a horrible mistake for Russia to join up with Iran...I think the chance they would do something like that is very low. No single or group of countries would be able to take down the U.S. and our allies.
Spoken like a true Roman. LOL
vundy33 Wrote:Have you read the Koran by any chance?
bits and pieces
DevilsWin Wrote:Spoken like a true Roman. LOL
Don't you agree with me?
irateSho
No country is invincible.
DevilsWin Wrote:No country is invincible.
I didn't say one country, I said the U.S. and our allies.
vundy33 Wrote:I didn't say one country, I said the U.S. and our allies.
If the WWIII scenario turns out as bad as I think there won't be any governments left standing.
vundy33 Wrote:I didn't say one country, I said the U.S. and our allies.
What allies? lol We have few left!
EKY Sportster Wrote:What allies? lol We have few left!
Lets see,........There's Israel, Israel, Israel and the British.
DevilsWin Wrote:Lets see,........There's Israel, Israel, Israel and the British.
If it ever comes to a war in the middle east, I guarantee that will likely be our only allies. lol
Thats all we need...we always have the Koreans, Ukranians, a couple Aussie's and a few other country's that don't really matter.
vundy33 Wrote:Thats all we need...we always have the Koreans, Ukranians, a couple Aussie's and a few other country's that don't really matter.
There are no winners in a WWIII scenario.
I agree! The last thing we need in this country is another war to fight and pay for.
To my knowledge, Iran has never stated, "the total annihilation of the United States" as a policy goal, though they have said this of Israel. The policies and practices (both expressed and hidden) of the US government in much of the Middle East produce the radicalism in our direction that we see. When's the last time you saw a Swedish flag burned on the streets of Tehran? If the world is viewed as a chess game, and one nation views itself as the chess master, moving pieces around seeking the checkmate of "superior strategic advantage," what is it we exactly expect from people's who feel they are being used as pawns?
You can't compare Sweden to the USA...we help everyone and try to solve everyones problems. I disagree with it sometimes, but alot of the times it is needed. They hate us because they hate the U.S. and everything we stand for...their religion has alot to do with it also.
they hate us cause we are allies with israel. people this fight goes all the way back to the old testament, and there will be another world war. I don't know when but at some point all nations will turn their backs on israel (God's chosen people) and when that happens.. well al I can say is I pray that you can ask God for forgiveness
vundy33 Wrote:You can't compare Sweden to the USA...we help everyone and try to solve everyones problems. I disagree with it sometimes, but alot of the times it is needed. They hate us because they hate the U.S. and everything we stand for...their religion has alot to do with it also.
Was I comparing Sweden to the US? I was suggesting that the Swedish flag doesn't get burned because they don't do a lot of "strategic deployment" stuff. We don't help everyone, though. Rwanda? Darfur region? We pick and choose, most often based on "strategic importance." I do not believe they hate everything we stand for. People in Sweden are pretty free, if you've ever been there. They shop. They eat out. They go on vacation, or "holiday" as they call it in Swedish. They vote. Other nations are predominantly Christian or Catholic. The problem is with US multinationals (oil) and a foregin policy that often uses other nations, other peoples as pawns.
thecavemaster Wrote:Was I comparing Sweden to the US? I was suggesting that the Swedish flag doesn't get burned because they don't do a lot of "strategic deployment" stuff. We don't help everyone, though. Rwanda? Darfur region? We pick and choose, most often based on "strategic importance." I do not believe they hate everything we stand for. People in Sweden are pretty free, if you've ever been there. They shop. They eat out. They go on vacation, or "holiday" as they call it in Swedish. They vote. Other nations are predominantly Christian or Catholic. The problem is with US multinationals (oil) and a foregin policy that often uses other nations, other peoples as pawns.
True, but we are dependent on that oil!! That is one reason we are in the middle of it. But there is other reasons too. But do u ever think we will see the money invested in the Iraq war ever returned to this country?? I doubt it.