From the CJ Jason Flakes about this being discussed at the KHSAA Board Meeting yesterday:
Current discussion:
6th and 7th Regions need a realignment because several schools have moved buildings since last alignment in 2007 and two new schools - DuBois and Grace James.
Sounding like there's sentiment for a complete realignment for entire state in near future.
Here is a breakdown of the # of schools currently in each of the 16 regions in the state.
1st = 15, 2nd = 16, 3rd = 15, 4th = 18, 5th = 19, 6th = 20, 7th = 22, 8th = 19, 9th = 21, 10th = 16, 11th = 19, 12th = 19, 13th = 17, 14th = 17, 15th = 15, 16th = 16
Seems like the schools in the central part(6th-9th) of the state could push out to the east and west and even the number of teams in each region. Seems a little unbalanced at the moment.
Here is an example of how this is much needed.
In the 8th region in their 4 districts this is their makeup.
1- 3 team district
1- 4 team district
1- 5 team district
1- 6 team district
It seems the KHSAA could fill in some gaps by moving the Bullitt schools out and making the 6th and 7th only Jefferson schools.
(01-18-2024, 11:05 PM)HCS Wrote: [ -> ]It seems the KHSAA could fill in some gaps by moving the Bullitt schools out and making the 6th and 7th only Jefferson schools.
Not sure that this really solves things long term, but not sure that it doesn't, or that it's the time to enact a long term solution either.
Eventually, some of the central Kentucky regions are going to have to expand into different regions and/or some of the far Western or far Eastern Kentucky regions will need to consolidate.
It gets clunky when some of the more rural areas have basically consolidated as much as they can at this point.
If there's only one public school in the county, that one isn't going anywhere unless Kentucky does the unthinkable and starts merging entire counties with one another, which I don't see happening. Even if some of the counties were to merge, I doubt that they'd consolidate their high schools immediately.
It's time for a new realignment. The last couple years there been a surge of schools joining the khsaa. There is regions where the number of teams vary. You have a region that has 14 teams then another region has 19 teams
Due to consolidations eliminating some schools and quite a few new parochial schools joining the KHSAA I believe some of the regions will get smaller geographically and some will increase in size. Jefferson County’s two regions may become inclusively Jefferson County schools. The northern Kentucky counties are growing in population and some of them may become part of the 10th region. I would have to survey a map of the regions and schools to get a better handle on some possible changes but there’s no doubt they’re going to do something. The last realignment was 20 years ago.
The 6th and 7th were once all Jefferson schools, I believe. I think the Bullitt schools were in the 8th.
I just hope Estill and Powell leave the 14th. Hopefully add Clay and Jackson County. Maybe Floyd Central.
Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
(01-20-2024, 12:32 AM)DukeBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I just hope Estill and Powell leave the 14th. Hopefully add Clay and Jackson County. Maybe Floyd Central.
Or move Letcher and Leslie.
(01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
That would ruin Kentucky basketball, but every year someone has a bright idea like this. What makes Kentucky so special is having one tournament and one champion. The All "A" Classic gives the smaller schools a chance to win a state title, plus play in the regular state tournament, like Pikeville, Hazard, Harlan, UHeights, Lyon County and so many others.
(01-20-2024, 07:05 PM)HCS Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
That would ruin Kentucky basketball, but every year someone has a bright idea like this. What makes Kentucky so special is having one tournament and one champion. The All "A" Classic gives the smaller schools a chance to win a state title, plus play in the regular state tournament, like Pikeville, Hazard, Harlan, UHeights, Lyon County and so many others.
Should football only have 1 state champion?
No. It's fine the way it is - just like basketball.
(01-20-2024, 07:05 PM)HCS Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
That would ruin Kentucky basketball, but every year someone has a bright idea like this. What makes Kentucky so special is having one tournament and one champion. The All "A" Classic gives the smaller schools a chance to win a state title, plus play in the regular state tournament, like Pikeville, Hazard, Harlan, UHeights, Lyon County and so many others.
In the future I'll keep my bright ideas to myself. Having four state champions would definitely ruin basketball in Kentucky. It just wouldn't be special anymore. I forgot about the mid-season pseudo championships. Heck, the 2A girls state champions just made it home and then lost by 38 to the girls next door, but hey, they're "state champions" and now we're all happy.
All joking aside, my point was you can still keep the tradition and have that special feeling in your stomach, have a Sweet 16, and have four bonified state champions. That opinion shouldn't be marginalized as "every year someone has a bright idea", when that opinion is shared by many across the state. I respect your opinion and understand where you're coming from and would never marginalize you for having that opinion. Please afford me and others the same measure of respect.
(01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
What about two classes? Then Elite 8 from each class move on to play the rest of the state tournament at Rupp.
(01-21-2024, 11:06 AM)IAM22 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
What about two classes? Then Elite 8 from each class move on to play the rest of the state tournament at Rupp.
(01-21-2024, 11:21 AM)rebel204 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2024, 11:06 AM)IAM22 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
What about two classes? Then Elite 8 from each class move on to play the rest of the state tournament at Rupp.
(01-21-2024, 11:06 AM)IAM22 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
What about two classes? Then Elite 8 from each class move on to play the rest of the state tournament at Rupp.
A couple of years ago I spent quite a bit of time comparing our student populations to surrounding states relative to the number of basketball and football classes in each of those states. If we have too many classes one could argue, relative to other states, that our state championships are "watered down". I'm not saying that's true but the argument has merit considering how many teams make the playoffs in football. Relative to other states and based on the ratio of students per class "four" seemed to be the magic number in both football and basketball. But one class in basketball and six in football makes no sense. There are some assumed risks with basketball, as HCS pointed out earlier, we could hurt the persona of our state tournament if we stray too far away from the current format. I think you could have four classes competing within the confines of our Sweet 16 without much risk of hurting the tournament. The strength of the current setup is that you have 16 teams from every part of the state competing in the first round of the tournament. That's cool, sets us apart from other states, and definitely boosts attendance. With a little imagination, for instance, I think you could set up the tournament with four sectional winners from each of the four classes. You would still have teams from all parts of the state competing which would minimize the risk of attendance loss, produce four state champions, and preserve the history and tradition of our tournament. I've got to hit the road in a few hours for my retirement job so I'm "over and out" for a few days.
(01-21-2024, 01:59 AM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2024, 07:05 PM)HCS Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2024, 01:01 PM)i82much Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a novel idea (lol), abandon the regions and have four classes. If you play the semi's and finals of each class at Rupp you still have16 teams playing basketball, albeit with 12 games determining four champions...but...if the KHSAA is set on having the traditional 15 games determining one champion then the four state champions could play for some newly designated title. I know there will be issues and change is not easy, but one basketball champion in a state that has six football champions just doesn't make sense. The current region setup doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be scrapped.
That would ruin Kentucky basketball, but every year someone has a bright idea like this. What makes Kentucky so special is having one tournament and one champion. The All "A" Classic gives the smaller schools a chance to win a state title, plus play in the regular state tournament, like Pikeville, Hazard, Harlan, UHeights, Lyon County and so many others.
In the future I'll keep my bright ideas to myself. Having four state champions would definitely ruin basketball in Kentucky. It just wouldn't be special anymore. I forgot about the mid-season pseudo championships. Heck, the 2A girls state champions just made it home and then lost by 38 to the girls next door, but hey, they're "state champions" and now we're all happy.
All joking aside, my point was you can still keep the tradition and have that special feeling in your stomach, have a Sweet 16, and have four bonified state champions. That opinion shouldn't be marginalized as "every year someone has a bright idea", when that opinion is shared by many across the state. I respect your opinion and understand where you're coming from and would never marginalize you for having that opinion. Please afford me and others the same measure of respect.
So, it would be better to win a 2A state title on Friday at Rupp Arena and lose by 38 the next day to the 4A champion? We've had boys and girls teams here win the All "A" Classic state title and then lose a game or two or three, but 30 years later they are still the Class A state champs.
The thing that's special about the current format is you have representatives from each region in the state. Just getting there is a massive accomplishment and one that is remembered for decades.
I especially hate the idea of winning a Class A title or 3A title one day and then losing the next day. The way it is now you can win a 1A or 2A title and still have a chance to compete for the big one in March.
By having four sectional champions by classes, you could leave out huge sections of the state if the same areas win each of the sections.
There's just no reason to mess with something that has worked so well for so long.
The current 1A/2A is not an actual post season tournament. Not all teams participate. And no, winning a 2A state title at the end of the season and losing to another state champion in a different class is not the same as winning a mid season tournament and then getting throttled by your same class rival neighbor school that didn't participate in the tournament. If you win an actual post season tournament you're not going to get beat by another school in your class by almost 40 points.
I love our state tournament but trying to address the inequity of school size with these 1A/2A mid season sort of tournament things is just not the answer. In the end I think we both want what's best for our kids so I'm glad we're having this discussion. I don't pretend to have all the answers and unfortunately I'm out of time as I'm heading out on a road trip. Sorry if I sounded a bit "smug" earlier and hey, maybe we can solve the worlds problems another day.
I don't know much about the 2A tourney, but I have been involved in the All A Classic since it started in 1990 and everyone participates at that level as far as I know and it is treated exactly the same by the people/schools/teams participating. Harlan County teams won two girls titles and two boys titles in the early years and have the banners/trophies just as if they won a Class A title in football. It's actually more impressive in a sense because pretty much all the A and 2A schools in the state qualify for the All A. The 2A tourney is basically 3A football schools and probably quite a few in 4A.
Graduate of a small school. Our couple of runs deep into regional tournaments and one regional championship meant more to our community than what a Class A state championship could ever mean. Love that the All A gives our kids the chance to compete among schools our size, but there's nothing like the all-comers aspect of the current Sweet 16 with the chance to knock off the big guys.
(01-19-2024, 01:09 AM)Cactus Jack Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2024, 11:05 PM)HCS Wrote: [ -> ]It seems the KHSAA could fill in some gaps by moving the Bullitt schools out and making the 6th and 7th only Jefferson schools.
Not sure that this really solves things long term, but not sure that it doesn't, or that it's the time to enact a long term solution either.
Eventually, some of the central Kentucky regions are going to have to expand into different regions and/or some of the far Western or far Eastern Kentucky regions will need to consolidate.
It gets clunky when some of the more rural areas have basically consolidated as much as they can at this point.
If there's only one public school in the county, that one isn't going anywhere unless Kentucky does the unthinkable and starts merging entire counties with one another, which I don't see happening. Even if some of the counties were to merge, I doubt that they'd consolidate their high schools immediately.
There is a bill in the state to possibly allow this. Currently only independents are required to merge. One would think that law would allow any. Some of these county districts are off worse than independents with enrollment.
(01-22-2024, 03:47 PM)dodger Wrote: [ -> ]Graduate of a small school. Our couple of runs deep into regional tournaments and one regional championship meant more to our community than what a Class A state championship could ever mean. Love that the All A gives our kids the chance to compete among schools our size, but there's nothing like the all-comers aspect of the current Sweet 16 with the chance to knock off the big guys.
Exactly. We have the best of both worlds now. You can win an All A state title and then compete in March also at the state tournament with all the top teams. I saw Harlan win the All A in 95 and then get all the way to the final four at the Sweet 16. Much better being able to prove you're one of the top four teams in the state, regardless of class.
Like the General Assembly doesn't have more important issues to attack than the consolidation of schools.
They will find something less important to fight about though, I'm sure.
It's not so much a school issue as a county issue. I think Kentucky has the third most counties in the nation - way too many small ones. I think something like 20 with less than 10,000 people.
(01-23-2024, 12:45 PM)HCS Wrote: [ -> ]They will find something less important to fight about though, I'm sure.
It's not so much a school issue as a county issue. I think Kentucky has the third most counties in the nation - way too many small ones. I think something like 20 with less than 10,000 people.
This is the answer, though Kentucky actually looks to be fourth overall. To put it in perspective, we have over twice as many counties as California.