You guys think the KHSAA should have conversation to reorganize the structure of high school football?
Here are a few things I think could be discussed.
1. Go from 6 classes to 3 or 4 at most. let's say 3 play them all on a Saturday flipping between Lexington / Louisville. / Bowling Green.
2. Rural vs Urban factor - allow county schools who transport kids by bus above the states average transport mileage to drop down a class if they want.
3. Go to a winner and runner up in each district only moving on to the playoffs, allow teams to schedule two more competitive games for regular season.
4. Allow private groups to form a bowl system for teams who don't make the playoffs giving them an opportunity for an extra game who have a good season (Use RPI as a qualifier) similar to college bowl system.
Just fodder for conversation.
Go to 4 classes. 4 teams from each district make playoffs. You’d have some good 4 vs 1 matchups if you done this. Instead of 3-4 teams in each class who could win the championship you’d have 8-10.
We will never go back to anything less than 6 classes. If anything they will try to add more. We seem to wanna copy What Ohio does so I see them trying to let more teams make the playoffs and play 6 playoff games instead of 5
(09-22-2023, 09:07 AM)Spoozer12 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys think the KHSAA should have conversation to reorganize the structure of high school football?
Here are a few things I think could be discussed.
1. Go from 6 classes to 3 or 4 at most. let's say 3 play them all on a Saturday flipping between Lexington / Louisville. / Bowling Green.
2. Rural vs Urban factor - allow county schools who transport kids by bus above the states average transport mileage to drop down a class if they want.
3. Go to a winner and runner up in each district only moving on to the playoffs, allow teams to schedule two more competitive games for regular season.
4. Allow private groups to form a bowl system for teams who don't make the playoffs giving them an opportunity for an extra game who have a good season (Use RPI as a qualifier) similar to college bowl system.
Just fodder for conversation.
So basically return to what was at some time in the past?
There were 3 classes from ‘59 to early 70’s. From then til mid 80’s there were experiments in sub districts to allow a few more teams into post season.
Then in 1987, top two teams went from each District.
Im not against what you suggest but it’s all been done before
I would love to see a 4 class system with only the district winners and runner-ups making the playoffs.
You’re forgetting the most important part and the only thing that matters
$$$
Yeah and the fact that these games are often money LOSERS for the three and four seeds doesn’t matter either.
One gets a bye; three plays at two….. four takes up gear and starts thinking about weights and NEXT YEAR makes too much sense to ever be done.
So riddle me this. Why do you guys not have the same opinions when it comes to baseball or basketball? You can lose in the postseason in those sports and advance to the regional tournaments. In both those sports we play year around and agree that more games is how a kid develops but yet we want less games for football? If someone wanted to take your last football game away every year you played when you was a kid would you’ve been happy? It’s about the kids and every time we have this conversation it’s adults complaining about why they don’t wanna travel to a game. It’s not about you it’s about the kids….let them play
Well, apples to oranges. You can play a basketball game every day without the physical abuse that a varsity football game has on a kid’s body. But you assume, maybe, that my opinion is to let everybody play in every sport but football. I’m fine with making all districts seed and the top two go to region. I do think upsets are a little more likely in basketball than football, but this thread is about football.
And for me, removing the last game from a team that is 1-9….. is a gift to them. Kids are faking injuries, seniors have long sense packed it in, and these KIDS really don’t want to practice another week and drive three hours to go take a beating. You might have wanted to, but I’ve seen it play out; most KIDS don’t.
And it does end up costing the four seed money in a lot of instances. The gate is small at these slaughters. By the time you pay fuel costs, drivers, feed kids two meals…..it’s a negative get financially.
It’s America- there are rewards for winning and consequences for losing.
Just my opinion, Riddler.
(09-23-2023, 10:26 AM)ROTC Wrote: [ -> ]Well, apples to oranges. You can play a basketball game every day without the physical abuse that a varsity football game has on a kid’s body. But you assume, maybe, that my opinion is to let everybody play in every sport but football. I’m fine with making all districts seed and the top two go to region. I do think upsets are a little more likely in basketball than football, but this thread is about football.
And for me, removing the last game from a team that is 1-9….. is a gift to them. Kids are faking injuries, seniors have long sense packed it in, and these KIDS really don’t want to practice another week and drive three hours to go take a beating. You might have wanted to, but I’ve seen it play out; most KIDS don’t.
And it does end up costing the four seed money in a lot of instances. The gate is small at these slaughters. By the time you pay fuel costs, drivers, feed kids two meals…..it’s a negative get financially.
It’s America- there are rewards for winning and consequences for losing.
Just my opinion, Riddler.
oh yeah- I almost forgot… I loathe American Legion Baseball and AAU Basketball. Loathe, loathe loathe
These classes are was too watered down. I would like to see playoffs remain same but go back to 4 classes. This way those 1-9 and 2-8 teams don't make playoffs making regular season mean more and eliminate some of the teams that have no right being in playoffs.
(09-23-2023, 10:26 AM)ROTC Wrote: [ -> ]Well, apples to oranges. You can play a basketball game every day without the physical abuse that a varsity football game has on a kid’s body. But you assume, maybe, that my opinion is to let everybody play in every sport but football. I’m fine with making all districts seed and the top two go to region. I do think upsets are a little more likely in basketball than football, but this thread is about football.
And for me, removing the last game from a team that is 1-9….. is a gift to them. Kids are faking injuries, seniors have long sense packed it in, and these KIDS really don’t want to practice another week and drive three hours to go take a beating. You might have wanted to, but I’ve seen it play out; most KIDS don’t.
And it does end up costing the four seed money in a lot of instances. The gate is small at these slaughters. By the time you pay fuel costs, drivers, feed kids two meals…..it’s a negative get financially.
It’s America- there are rewards for winning and consequences for losing.
Just my opinion, Riddler.
(09-23-2023, 10:26 AM)ROTC Wrote: [ -> ]Well, apples to oranges. You can play a basketball game every day without the physical abuse that a varsity football game has on a kid’s body. But you assume, maybe, that my opinion is to let everybody play in every sport but football. I’m fine with making all districts seed and the top two go to region. I do think upsets are a little more likely in basketball than football, but this thread is about football.
And for me, removing the last game from a team that is 1-9….. is a gift to them. Kids are faking injuries, seniors have long sense packed it in, and these KIDS really don’t want to practice another week and drive three hours to go take a beating. You might have wanted to, but I’ve seen it play out; most KIDS don’t.
And it does end up costing the four seed money in a lot of instances. The gate is small at these slaughters. By the time you pay fuel costs, drivers, feed kids two meals…..it’s a negative get financially.
It’s America- there are rewards for winning and consequences for losing.
Just my opinion, Riddler.
oh yeah- I almost forgot… I loathe American Legion Baseball and AAU Basketball. Loathe, loathe loathe
I played on a 5-5 team that made the playoffs because of an upset in a district game in the last game of the season. We had to play the #2 team in the state in the first round and I promise you no one wanted to play in that game. You could hear everyone groan in the locker room after we were told we had one more game after accepting that we were done after the last regular season game.
Exactly, BLAZE! I know a man who totally assisted his son in faking a shoulder injury to avoid the slaughter of a first round playoff game. The kid was the QB. Not a good thing to do, but the kid was a basketball player, too. Who do you blame in that situation????
I blame the playoff system. LOL
(09-23-2023, 03:26 PM)ROTC Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly, BLAZE! I know a man who totally assisted his son in faking a shoulder injury to avoid the slaughter of a first round playoff game. The kid was the QB. Not a good thing to do, but the kid was a basketball player, too. Who do you blame in that situation????
I blame the playoff system. LOL
I get the argument for wanting to give kids more games to play but as a player it made district games meaningful knowing you had to earn your spot in the post season. Our district was huge when I played and 6 of our 10 games were district games. Winning a district championship was as a big deal too because we had to beat a lot of teams to win the district. Winning the district seems to have lost its magic now too because you don’t have to battle for it like you used to.
The math doesn’t support 6 classes in Kentucky. Five is more sensible.
There is little substantial difference between the schools playing 5A and 6A and little between the upper third of 2A and bottom third of 3A.
Kentucky does need a reorganization. Going to 4 would be better than 6 classes of 36 to 40 teams each.
Wasted post. Khsaa is a money making organization. They will never go down to 5 or 4 classes. Too lucrative to have mediocre programs that otherwise would never make the finals, play one year and bring everyone in town to watch.
Private and big schools need their own division
Preach it my BROTHER!!
I once heard the Commissioner tell a bunch of coaches who were adamantly protesting the use of junky footballs-“You all will use these balls in the playoffs or forfeit! And I can give you 100,000 reasons why!”
KHSAA might have gotten that money; did the member schools? No, they ghastly prices for trash footballs.
It’s all about money!!!
(09-23-2023, 04:04 PM)16 special Wrote: [ -> ]Wasted post. Khsaa is a money making organization. They will never go down to 5 or 4 classes. Too lucrative to have mediocre programs that otherwise would never make the finals, play one year and bring everyone in town to watch.
At this point I see these posts as a way for us to express our opinions about this topic. Realistically I don’t think anyone truly believes it will change but it gives us an outlet to complain and have a conversation.
I say first things first. Khsaa needs to get rid of the RPI system. Whoever come up with that idea must have been an out of work embezzler. Smh
Well, if you can never break through as a big time SEC official; maybe you try to make the sport you DICTATE more like college ball….I dunno
(09-23-2023, 04:54 PM)Orange Blaze Wrote: [ -> ] (09-23-2023, 04:04 PM)16 special Wrote: [ -> ]Wasted post. Khsaa is a money making organization. They will never go down to 5 or 4 classes. Too lucrative to have mediocre programs that otherwise would never make the finals, play one year and bring everyone in town to watch.
At this point I see these posts as a way for us to express our opinions about this topic. Realistically I don’t think anyone truly believes it will change but it gives us an outlet to complain and have a conversation.
I’m not saying don’t have a conversation, but it’s like beating a dead horse. Khsaa doesn’t do the right thing 90% of the time. I’m just frustrated with them more than anything. Wasn’t trying to mess with the dialogues. Carry on
(09-23-2023, 04:20 PM)Smashmouth1982 Wrote: [ -> ]Private and big schools need their own division
Big schools already have 6A and 5A. Only St. Xavier and Trinity, both 6A, play in either of those.
How would you bracket a separate private school division? Only 14 (soon to be 15) play football and half of them are 2A or smaller.
6A St. Xavier and Trinity.
5A None
4A Covington Catholic - less than half the size of X and T.
3A Christian Academy-Louisville, Lexington Catholic, and DeSales (playing up to 4A this cycle).
2A Lexington Christian and Owensboro Catholic - less than half the size of Cov Cath (St. Henry coming soon).
1A Bethlehem, Bishop Brossart, Covington Holy Cross, Kentucky Country Day, Louisville Holy Cross, and Newport Central Catholic - all around half the size of LCA and OC.
How do you seed them? Can they only play each other in one or two districts? Do you penalize public schools for playing them for RPI as if they're out of state schools. Does a private division get fewer playoff games, 3-4 instead of 5 like the current setup. If you think all of them should be playing for one championship, you really aren't proposing a fair division are you?
Almost every metro area these schools are in has some combination of independent cities, open enrollment counties, or multiple private schools for families to choose from. A lot of very successful programs pick up "out of district" kids; happens from Paducah to Pikeville.
A private division will never make it to a Board of Control vote. If it ever did, and passed, litigation would be lit.
Since going to a 6 class system I think we've seen football grow in the state.
What I am saying is the number of recruits coming out of the state. Seemed a 4 star recruit was a once every 5-10 year thing back in the day. Now we see them on the regular.
If it's to better kids lives I like the 6 Class system. As stated above as much as some dislike public vs. private Kentucky doesn't have enough football playing privates to have a private school league.
(09-23-2023, 08:46 PM)nemo Wrote: [ -> ] (09-23-2023, 04:20 PM)Smashmouth1982 Wrote: [ -> ]Private and big schools need their own division
Big schools already have 6A and 5A. Only St. Xavier and Trinity, both 6A, play in either of those.
How would you bracket a separate private school division? Only 14 (soon to be 15) play football and half of them are 2A or smaller.
6A St. Xavier and Trinity.
5A None
4A Covington Catholic - less than half the size of X and T.
3A Christian Academy-Louisville, Lexington Catholic, and DeSales (playing up to 4A this cycle).
2A Lexington Christian and Owensboro Catholic - less than half the size of Cov Cath (St. Henry coming soon).
1A Bethlehem, Bishop Brossart, Covington Holy Cross, Kentucky Country Day, Louisville Holy Cross, and Newport Central Catholic - all around half the size of LCA and OC.
How do you seed them? Can they only play each other in one or two districts? Do you penalize public schools for playing them for RPI as if they're out of state schools. Does a private division get fewer playoff games, 3-4 instead of 5 like the current setup. If you think all of them should be playing for one championship, you really aren't proposing a fair division are you?
Almost every metro area these schools are in has some combination of independent cities, open enrollment counties, or multiple private schools for families to choose from. A lot of very successful programs pick up "out of district" kids; happens from Paducah to Pikeville.
A private division will never make it to a Board of Control vote. If it ever did, and passed, litigation would be lit.
lol don’t think it’s impossible. Tennessee has an absurd amount. 6 classes and then three divisions for private. Some of those private divisions has less schools than what you mentioned.
personally I don’t care, but I’m sure there’s some people that would say privates go to one class for all privates and be done with it.
I don’t have a problem with private schools. If anything they’ve made football better in this state. Just do away with the RPI cause it’s silly
The real question to be asked is why aren’t classes equal across all sports? I know I’m going to step on some toes with this but is it really fair for basketball, baseball, softball, and volleyball to have 1 class? Sure we all like the idea of the Cinderella small school winning a state title but realistically how often does that really happen? The class system in KY sports is broken simply because there is no consistency.
(09-24-2023, 12:01 AM)Orange Blaze Wrote: [ -> ]The real question to be asked is why aren’t classes equal across all sports? I know I’m going to step on some toes with this but is it really fair for basketball, baseball, softball, and volleyball to have 1 class? Sure we all like the idea of the Cinderella small school winning a state title but realistically how often does that really happen? The class system in KY sports is broken simply because there is no consistency.
This is why nobody takes sports like basketball seriously in this state. sure the glamour of one champion winning it all is a cool premise, but are we to believe small 1A schools should be in the same district as 6A schools?
they can’t shout about fairness and all that in football when they expect the smallest school in the state to compete with the largest in everything else.
(09-23-2023, 03:20 PM)Orange Blaze Wrote: [ -> ] (09-23-2023, 10:26 AM)ROTC Wrote: [ -> ]Well, apples to oranges. You can play a basketball game every day without the physical abuse that a varsity football game has on a kid’s body. But you assume, maybe, that my opinion is to let everybody play in every sport but football. I’m fine with making all districts seed and the top two go to region. I do think upsets are a little more likely in basketball than football, but this thread is about football.
And for me, removing the last game from a team that is 1-9….. is a gift to them. Kids are faking injuries, seniors have long sense packed it in, and these KIDS really don’t want to practice another week and drive three hours to go take a beating. You might have wanted to, but I’ve seen it play out; most KIDS don’t.
And it does end up costing the four seed money in a lot of instances. The gate is small at these slaughters. By the time you pay fuel costs, drivers, feed kids two meals…..it’s a negative get financially.
It’s America- there are rewards for winning and consequences for losing.
Just my opinion, Riddler.
(09-23-2023, 10:26 AM)ROTC Wrote: [ -> ]Well, apples to oranges. You can play a basketball game every day without the physical abuse that a varsity football game has on a kid’s body. But you assume, maybe, that my opinion is to let everybody play in every sport but football. I’m fine with making all districts seed and the top two go to region. I do think upsets are a little more likely in basketball than football, but this thread is about football.
And for me, removing the last game from a team that is 1-9….. is a gift to them. Kids are faking injuries, seniors have long sense packed it in, and these KIDS really don’t want to practice another week and drive three hours to go take a beating. You might have wanted to, but I’ve seen it play out; most KIDS don’t.
And it does end up costing the four seed money in a lot of instances. The gate is small at these slaughters. By the time you pay fuel costs, drivers, feed kids two meals…..it’s a negative get financially.
It’s America- there are rewards for winning and consequences for losing.
Just my opinion, Riddler.
oh yeah- I almost forgot… I loathe American Legion Baseball and AAU Basketball. Loathe, loathe loathe
I played on a 5-5 team that made the playoffs because of an upset in a district game in the last game of the season. We had to play the #2 team in the state in the first round and I promise you no one wanted to play in that game. You could hear everyone groan in the locker room after we were told we had one more game after accepting that we were done after the last regular season game.
I was arguing exactly what you stated here at playoff time last year when Lynn Camp had to travel to Pikeville. I said that most of the kids, players, kids parents, and coaches had no desire to play those kind of games. Yet some people on here said I was wrong. They said kids wanted to play those last games, even knowing they were gonna get their brains beaten in . It is ludicrous. There is little reason for a Lynn Camp-Pikeville type game. No one on either side wants to play in a game like that.
(09-23-2023, 11:15 PM)RAMDAD50 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t have a problem with private schools. If anything they’ve made football better in this state. Just do away with the RPI cause it’s silly
I don't know about doing away with it, the RPI formula works off the averages of three components: modified winning percentage, opponents' winning percentage and opponents' opponents winning percentage, so an imbalance of one or two games between teams will have virtually no impact on the ranking system.
But the RPI is dependent on an initial subjective value assigned to each team, right?