Let's talk about offense. If you could call the shots, what would you run and what are you seeing that isn't getting enough attention on the team you follow. What kind of plays do you like. Coach it up.
Do you like to run the ball? Do you like to pass the ball? Do you like all passing? Do you like all running? Do you like a mix of the two?
It all starts with a disciplined, strong OLINE. If you don’t have that, you can’t do either. Run to set up the pass or pass to set up the run.
Preferably I love watching a good timing offense throwing the ball down the field. The athletes are in space to make moves and big plays.
However. When ran perfectly the coolest thing in my opinion is the Belfry- JC teams of old. Veer, Belly three yards and the fullback and halfback get hit every play. They clap hands and start all over! 3-4 more yards! They clap hands! They do it one more time and they move the chains. The defense by the 2nd or 3rd move of the chains is defeated, tired. Then comes the big play between the tackles. This is a thing of beauty when the machine gets oiled right!
Run 70% of time pass 30% on average
Iformation, spread shotgun, and have a power set similar to the wing belfry runs.
I’ve always loved the west coast offenses. Multiple formations with a down hill running attack using tight ends in the passing game. But that’s really a wish list. I believe at the high school level you gotta run an offense according to your personal. Some years may be a little more pass and some years a little more run. You can’t say….we are what we are and settle. You need to see what works best with the kids you have year to year.
Depends on who I’m playing. Can be like Haddix and add new wrinkles weekly. Can’t scout what ya haven’t seen.
Whatever basic philosophy you have, run it at every level in the school system.
I think it really depends on where you are located and the talent you have available. For example the athlete pool at a large inner city school like Frederick Douglass would look very different than a similarly sized rural school located in the Appalachian coal fields. Schools like Belfry, Pikeville, JC have been successful because they work towards the strengths of the athletes that they have and don’t try to be something that they aren’t. Many times you see coaches install these spread systems that were designed for teams that have above average to elite athletes and the kids fail to thrive because their true strengths aren’t being developed and they are playing in a system they wasn’t made for their talent level.
(12-14-2022, 06:28 PM)DukeBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Depends on who I’m playing. Can be like Haddix and add new wrinkles weekly. Can’t scout what ya haven’t seen.
Yeah, he's pretty good !
(12-14-2022, 08:15 PM)Orange Blaze Wrote: [ -> ]I think it really depends on where you are located and the talent you have available. For example the athlete pool at a large inner city school like Frederick Douglass would look very different than a similarly sized rural school located in the Appalachian coal fields. Schools like Belfry, Pikeville, JC have been successful because they work towards the strengths of the athletes that they have and don’t try to be something that they aren’t. Many times you see coaches install these spread systems that were designed for teams that have above average to elite athletes and the kids fail to thrive because their true strengths aren’t being developed and they are playing in a system they wasn’t made for their talent level.
I totally agree!
I would run, run, and run some more. My favorite offense as a player was when Chuke Williams was our offensive coordinator my sophomore year. We ran the wishbone. Unfortunately, I played defensive line almost exclusively that year. I always said that I would run that offensive if I was ever a head coach. I was unable to do that though because we just didn't have the personnel. We passed, passed, and passed some more.
(12-14-2022, 08:47 PM)Westside Wrote: [ -> ]I would run, run, and run some more. My favorite offense as a player was when Chuke Williams was our offensive coordinator my sophomore year. We ran the wishbone. Unfortunately, I played defensive line almost exclusively that year. I always said that I would run that offensive if I was ever a head coach. I was unable to do that though because we just didn't have the personnel. We passed, passed, and passed some more.
I love watching the wishbone. When it is run right there is not a better offense to watch. A local school where I live just won the 4A (6A in Kentucky) running the wishbone. They did not attempt a single pass in the state title game. They looked like Oklahoma in the Barry Switzer days. It was beautiful to watch.
(12-14-2022, 09:14 PM)Jarons Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 08:47 PM)Westside Wrote: [ -> ]I would run, run, and run some more. My favorite offense as a player was when Chuke Williams was our offensive coordinator my sophomore year. We ran the wishbone. Unfortunately, I played defensive line almost exclusively that year. I always said that I would run that offensive if I was ever a head coach. I was unable to do that though because we just didn't have the personnel. We passed, passed, and passed some more.
I love watching the wishbone. When it is run right there is not a better offense to watch. A local school where I live just won the 4A (6A in Kentucky) running the wishbone. They did not attempt a single pass in the state title game. They looked like Oklahoma in the Barry Switzer days. It was beautiful to watch.
It's my favorite too. We ran Oklahoma's offense my sophomore year in high school. I will never forget the play tight right belly read. It's a beautiful offense.
Something versatile. Franklin/Leach systems are easily modified with personel and is easily adaptable. Ironically enough, I am a spread style coach, but my favorite system to see ran, when ran at its best, is the triple option. One thing I will say though, is I think people underestimate what your ball players are capable of and complex systems, when play calls are shrunk down, can be extremely effective.
I think the RPO is what football is evolving to. Reading outside linebackers and safety’s. The thing with the RPO, this is just my opinion, you can run it with a smarter quarterback who has less arm talent, and it still be effective. Slants and bubbles reading the outside backers, and post routs reading safety’s.
(12-14-2022, 08:15 PM)Orange Blaze Wrote: [ -> ]I think it really depends on where you are located and the talent you have available. For example the athlete pool at a large inner city school like Frederick Douglass would look very different than a similarly sized rural school located in the Appalachian coal fields. Schools like Belfry, Pikeville, JC have been successful because they work towards the strengths of the athletes that they have and don’t try to be something that they aren’t. Many times you see coaches install these spread systems that were designed for teams that have above average to elite athletes and the kids fail to thrive because their true strengths aren’t being developed and they are playing in a system they wasn’t made for their talent level.
Absolutely brilliant statement.
Depends on what your talent pool to work with year after year is.
Geography matters.
Orange Blaze absolutely nailed it.
If I am back in EKY I want a run heavy, possession based, team. Whether you do that from the Flexbone, Wishbone, or the spread with double tights... play to the strength of blue collared strong and big linemen and limit your weakness of elite speed.
If I am in and around Lexington I am probably still running the spread with my best athlete at QB and a hard runner at HB and doing a lot of read, zone, and intermediate passing.
If I am in Louisville I am probably leaning more into my passing game even more and using the passing game as my best form of run game with quick passes to the flats, pop passes on the jet, and screens.
Regardless... my OL will only play one way and any two way players on offense either are because they are simply too good to take off the field or I am rotating them for a series or after a long play to keep them fresh to focus on defense. Whatever I do on Offense is no huddle based. If I am spread heavy tempo is my friend, if I am run heavy shifting and hard counts are a big part to get the defense to tip their hand or get out of position.
Hard to compete these days unless you just have decades long of a huge line (and genetically large kids coming out of the woodworks) unless you have a modern offense, spread, sniffer back, etc.. No real classic tight ends who are basically somewhat quick lineman, now you get a 6'2"+ wide receiver (often the center of your basketball team, or PF) and throw them at Y receiver and role. I like a quick game, and counter runs, jump cut and backside blocking and a quarterback who is either fast and athletic enough to be a major threat with QB counter, or a big bruising QB who is going to fall forward every time. You can take "tweener" offensive lineman who hit the weights hard and teach them perfect pass sitting footwork, and especially quick lineman to set up all your screen packages. You do sacrifice (and sometimes lose) when you really do need to hunker down and run the ball. That is the major problem/disadvantage. Unless you are some of the top 20 teams in the state, your new crop of kids are most likely going to be different every 3 or 4 years. So you have to figure out what kind of kids you have and just put the system in that fits them. The Jimmy's and the Joe's are still who win football games in this state or anywhere else. I was always a run first guy, but I do see the allure of wide receiver talent saying "piss on playing for that team just to stalk block"...I mean if you have wide receiver talent in your county that might get offers for pass catching...
As Coach Boone on Remember the Titans said I run 6 plays, split back veer, just like Novocaine give it time it always works.
I love watching the veer like Middlesboro ran in late 90s with Skidmore.
I also love watching the wishbone. The key is a tough fullback that is willing to sell that fake.
A good coach must adapt to personnel you have. If you have Tim Couch you would be insane to run the belly.
(12-18-2022, 12:16 PM)wolfcat Wrote: [ -> ]As Coach Boone on Remember the Titans said I run 6 plays, split back veer, just like Novocaine give it time it always works.
I love watching the veer like Middlesboro ran in late 90s with Skidmore.
I also love watching the wishbone. The key is a tough fullback that is willing to sell that fake.
A good coach must adapt to personnel you have. If you have Tim Couch you would be insane to run the belly.
I once heard a coach say that your personal coaching philosophy should only serve as the blue print to reach a destination but shouldn’t handcuff you from acknowledging the reality that is in front of your face. A lot of times I think coaches don’t have this mindset and try to force their athletes into their way of thinking instead of acknowledging who they actually have on front of them and what they are capable of.
(12-18-2022, 01:56 PM)Orange Blaze Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2022, 12:16 PM)wolfcat Wrote: [ -> ]As Coach Boone on Remember the Titans said I run 6 plays, split back veer, just like Novocaine give it time it always works.
I love watching the veer like Middlesboro ran in late 90s with Skidmore.
I also love watching the wishbone. The key is a tough fullback that is willing to sell that fake.
A good coach must adapt to personnel you have. If you have Tim Couch you would be insane to run the belly.
I once heard a coach say that your personal coaching philosophy should only serve as the blue print to reach a destination but shouldn’t handcuff you from acknowledging the reality that is in front of your face. A lot of times I think coaches don’t have this mindset and try to force their athletes into their way of thinking instead of acknowledging who they actually have on front of them and what they are capable of.
I agree with you. I remember when Channing Fugate was at Breathitt. Holcomb had been a spread em out and throw it all over the field coach since mid 90s. He saw the potential Fugate had running the ball so he revamped his play calling and Fugate fan for over 3000 yards in 08.
A good coach must be humble enough to see when his main scheme is not working and make the needed changes
(12-18-2022, 12:16 PM)wolfcat Wrote: [ -> ]As Coach Boone on Remember the Titans said I run 6 plays, split back veer, just like Novocaine give it time it always works.
I love watching the veer like Middlesboro ran in late 90s with Skidmore.
I also love watching the wishbone. The key is a tough fullback that is willing to sell that fake.
A good coach must adapt to personnel you have. If you have Tim Couch you would be insane to run the belly.
That's what Bill Curry did Couch's freshman year at UK. So you think it was a bad idea?
Things to consider:
Can you “legally” recruit like colleges?
Do you pay your athletes millions of dollars like NFL?
Will you have twenty plus hours a week to study film, have meetings, and twenty more to practice on the field?
After you answer those questions, be realistic with the talent and time you have available and run what helps your kids to be successful.
Friday is not Saturday or Sunday.