Appears that if Pikeville beats Hazard and isn't penalized for only having only 9 games, they will get the #1 seed. 2 ifs
and under that scenario if Hazard and Raceland win their final games the following week, looks VERY close for 2nd and 3rd seeds and who gets home field if those two teams play each other in week 3 of playoffs.
Is it correct that Pikeville's RPI will be based on 9 results and Hazard and Raceland 10 results?
Almost playoff time!
(10-17-2022, 12:52 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ]Appears that if Pikeville beats Hazard and isn't penalized for only having only 9 games, they will get the #1 seed. 2 ifs
and under that scenario if Hazard and Raceland win their final games the following week, looks VERY close for 2nd and 3rd seeds and who gets home field if those two teams play each other in week 3 of playoffs.
Is it correct that Pikeville's RPI will be based on 9 results and Hazard and Raceland 10 results?
Almost playoff time!
Take this with a grain of salt. But I’ve never seen a penalty for only having 9 games. I haven’t seen it talked about, but why only 9 games?
and the RPI formula is unaffected by the number of games.
Only 9 games because Pikeville can't find anyone to play them. Lucky Russellville agreed to play or they would have had only 8.
(10-17-2022, 01:26 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ]Only 9 games because Pikeville can't find anyone to play them. Lucky Russellville agreed to play or they would have had only 8.
Oh wow. Yea I’ve never read anything on that penalizes a team for not playing a 10 game schedule. Surely if there was sometbing in bylaws about having to play “x” amount of games to qualify for post season the staff would know. Now, you might have some raceland fans disputing the title if you win it for not playing a full seasons worth hahahah
A school can play up to 10 regular season games but it does not have to play ten. The RPI won't decrease as a result of the one less game. However, if the RPI's were close, a team that played ten games could benefit enough from an additional win to claim the the RPI top spot. I think Pikeville will probably end up being #1 in RPI but I'd have to go through the math to know with more certainty.
(10-17-2022, 12:52 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ]Appears that if Pikeville beats Hazard and isn't penalized for only having only 9 games, they will get the #1 seed. 2 ifs
and under that scenario if Hazard and Raceland win their final games the following week, looks VERY close for 2nd and 3rd seeds and who gets home field if those two teams play each other in week 3 of playoffs.
Is it correct that Pikeville's RPI will be based on 9 results and Hazard and Raceland 10 results?
Almost playoff time!
Yes, that is correct , Jet. Pikeville's RPI will be calculated on their nine games and Raceland on 10. However, the WP , OWP, and OOWP are all averaged before applying the respective weights, so it will not cost Pikeville RPI points. It's not like Pikeville gets a "0" for lacking a tenth game. A tenth game may raise Raceland's RPI but not having a tenth game will not deduct from Pikeville's. None of it will matter in the end, anyway. Nobody' beating Pikeville.
(10-17-2022, 02:33 AM)Old School Hound Wrote: [ -> ]A school can play up to 10 regular season games but it does not have to play ten. The RPI won't decrease as a result of the one less game. However, if the RPI's were close, a team that played ten games could benefit enough from an additional win to claim the the RPI top spot. I think Pikeville will probably end up being #1 in RPI but I'd have to go through the math to know with more certainty.
(10-17-2022, 12:52 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ]Appears that if Pikeville beats Hazard and isn't penalized for only having only 9 games, they will get the #1 seed. 2 ifs
and under that scenario if Hazard and Raceland win their final games the following week, looks VERY close for 2nd and 3rd seeds and who gets home field if those two teams play each other in week 3 of playoffs.
Is it correct that Pikeville's RPI will be based on 9 results and Hazard and Raceland 10 results?
Almost playoff time!
Yes, that is correct , Jet. Pikeville's RPI will be calculated on their nine games and Raceland on 10. However, the WP , OWP, and OOWP are all averaged before applying the respective weights, so it will not cost Pikeville RPI points. It's not like Pikeville gets a "0" for lacking a tenth game. A tenth game may raise Raceland's RPI but not having a tenth game will not deduct from Pikeville's. None of it will matter in the end, anyway. Nobody's beating Pikeville.
RPI at 10/8
4. Bethlehem 317 153 6 - 1 2 - 0 1 - 0 .73561
16. Campbellsville 195 141 4 - 3 1 - 0 1 - 0 .57146
RPI at 10/16
Bethlehem 331 174 6 - 2 2 - 1 1 - 1 .69058
Campbellsville 216 155 5 - 3 2 - 0 2 - 0 .61737
Campbellsville just beat Bethlehem. Big gap in difference of course but an example.
(10-17-2022, 03:36 AM)bac2369 Wrote: [ -> ]RPI at 10/8
4. Bethlehem 317 153 6 - 1 2 - 0 1 - 0 .73561
16. Campbellsville 195 141 4 - 3 1 - 0 1 - 0 .57146
RPI at 10/16
Bethlehem 331 174 6 - 2 2 - 1 1 - 1 .69058
Campbellsville 216 155 5 - 3 2 - 0 2 - 0 .61737
Campbellsville just beat Bethlehem. Big gap in difference of course but an example.
Pikeville will get a nice bump by beating Hazard and Hazard will take a hit. Then Hazard will get a small bump for beating SV but not near enough to overtake Pikeville. Pikeville will increase their lead over Raceland beating Hazard while Raceland beats Paintsville. Raceland gets a decent bump beating Lawrence Co., not near enough to catch Pikeville but enough to catch and possibly overtake Hazard for #2. SV and LC WP and OWP too low to get enough of a bump to catch Pikeville. Take with grain of salt but that's how it looks to this amateur RPI watcher.
(10-17-2022, 02:33 AM)Old School Hound Wrote: [ -> ]A school can play up to 10 regular season games but it does not have to play ten. The RPI won't decrease as a result of the one less game. However, if the RPI's were close, a team that played ten games could benefit enough from an additional win to claim the the RPI top spot. I think Pikeville will probably end up being #1 in RPI but I'd have to go through the math to know with more certainty.
(10-17-2022, 12:52 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ]Appears that if Pikeville beats Hazard and isn't penalized for only having only 9 games, they will get the #1 seed. 2 ifs
and under that scenario if Hazard and Raceland win their final games the following week, looks VERY close for 2nd and 3rd seeds and who gets home field if those two teams play each other in week 3 of playoffs.
Is it correct that Pikeville's RPI will be based on 9 results and Hazard and Raceland 10 results?
Almost playoff time!
Yes, that is correct , Jet. Pikeville's RPI will be calculated on their nine games and Raceland on 10. However, the WP , OWP, and OOWP are all averaged before applying the respective weights, so it will not cost Pikeville RPI points. It's not like Pikeville gets a "0" for lacking a tenth game. A tenth game may raise Raceland's RPI but not having a tenth game will not deduct from Pikeville's. None of it will matter in the end, anyway. Nobody' beating Pikeville.
(10-17-2022, 02:33 AM)Old School Hound Wrote: [ -> ]A school can play up to 10 regular season games but it does not have to play ten. The RPI won't decrease as a result of the one less game. However, if the RPI's were close, a team that played ten games could benefit enough from an additional win to claim the the RPI top spot. I think Pikeville will probably end up being #1 in RPI but I'd have to go through the math to know with more certainty.
(10-17-2022, 12:52 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ]Appears that if Pikeville beats Hazard and isn't penalized for only having only 9 games, they will get the #1 seed. 2 ifs
and under that scenario if Hazard and Raceland win their final games the following week, looks VERY close for 2nd and 3rd seeds and who gets home field if those two teams play each other in week 3 of playoffs.
Is it correct that Pikeville's RPI will be based on 9 results and Hazard and Raceland 10 results?
Almost playoff time!
Yes, that is correct , Jet. Pikeville's RPI will be calculated on their nine games and Raceland on 10. However, the WP , OWP, and OOWP are all averaged before applying the respective weights, so it will not cost Pikeville RPI points. It's not like Pikeville gets a "0" for lacking a tenth game. A tenth game may raise Raceland's RPI but not having a tenth game will not deduct from Pikeville's. None of it will matter in the end, anyway. Nobody's beating Pikeville.
Thanks OSH!
(10-17-2022, 03:36 AM)bac2369 Wrote: [ -> ]RPI at 10/8
4. Bethlehem 317 153 6 - 1 2 - 0 1 - 0 .73561
16. Campbellsville 195 141 4 - 3 1 - 0 1 - 0 .57146
RPI at 10/16
Bethlehem 331 174 6 - 2 2 - 1 1 - 1 .69058
Campbellsville 216 155 5 - 3 2 - 0 2 - 0 .61737
Campbellsville just beat Bethlehem. Big gap in difference of course but an example.
Much easier to get that kind of bump when your RPI is quite low like Campbellsville's was. Much harder to get that kind of bump when your RPI is already very high like Pikeville and Hazard.
(10-17-2022, 07:18 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 03:36 AM)bac2369 Wrote: [ -> ]RPI at 10/8
4. Bethlehem 317 153 6 - 1 2 - 0 1 - 0 .73561
16. Campbellsville 195 141 4 - 3 1 - 0 1 - 0 .57146
RPI at 10/16
Bethlehem 331 174 6 - 2 2 - 1 1 - 1 .69058
Campbellsville 216 155 5 - 3 2 - 0 2 - 0 .61737
Campbellsville just beat Bethlehem. Big gap in difference of course but an example.
Much easier to get that kind of bump when your RPI is quite low like Campbellsville's was. Much harder to get that kind of bump when your RPI is already very high like Pikeville and Hazard. I don't think Hazard or Pikeville RPI would have gone up much at all for beating Bethlehem.
I was about i ask how it would raise by just playing one more game because for some reason I skipped over the obvious. At first I was thinking percentages. So for example their opponents win percentage was .75 and their OOWP was .75. If they played another opponent who (which wouldn’t be likely) had a .75 and OOWP of .75 the value would be unchanged. But…. I skipped over the main thing, YOUR WP. Every game you play it’s going to change regardless. Even undefeated teams who should technically be 1.0000 would change unless they just played teams in their division. That’s right old school isn’t it?
So yea I guess I could see the value in one more game depending on the opponent.
I was under the impression that RPI didn’t come into play until after the third round of the playoffs. I thought we was back to cross district play with the regular regional championship game then the RPI was used for the the final four
(10-17-2022, 09:45 AM)RAMDAD50 Wrote: [ -> ]I was under the impression that RPI didn’t come into play until after the third round of the playoffs. I thought we was back to cross district play with the regular regional championship game then the RPI was used for the the final four
I think that's right.
(10-17-2022, 09:45 AM)RAMDAD50 Wrote: [ -> ]I was under the impression that RPI didn’t come into play until after the third round of the playoffs. I thought we was back to cross district play with the regular regional championship game then the RPI was used for the the final four
Third round playoff games, for the purpose of determining the home team, will be based on Playoff RPI in all classes.- Highest remaining seed in regions 1-4 will host the fourth-highest remaining in regions 1-4;
- 2nd highest remaining seed in regions 1-4 will host the third-highest remaining seed in regions 1-4;
- Highest remaining seed in regions 5-8 host the fourth-highest remaining in regions 5-8;
- 2nd highest remaining seed in regions 5-8 host the third-highest remaining seed in regions 5-8.
As of right now Hazard is in first just barely.
As long as Raceland and Pikeville wrap up the 1 seed and 2 seed in any order then I'll be shocked if they don't meet at Kroger Field for the state championship, I just don't see any other Class A school having much of a realistic chance of beating either team on their home field unless they were to meet in the semi-finals.
If Pikeville doesn't get a 10th game I'm a little concerned that they might finish 3rd. But even after the playoffs get started doesn't the RPI still get calculated from those games too?
(10-17-2022, 06:43 PM)Panther88 Wrote: [ -> ]If Pikeville doesn't get a 10th game I'm a little concerned that they might finish 3rd. But even after the playoffs get started doesn't the RPI still get calculated from those games too?
No playoff games are not calculated into rpi. I think Pikeville may be 3rd if Hazard beats Shelby Valley and Raceland beats Lawrence and Paintsville. I would have it if Pikeville and Raceland had to play 3rd round. Clearly beat 2 1A teams. Paintsville will probably the the 4 seed in round 3. Think they are better than Bishop Brossart who they’d most likely face round 2. Loser of Pikeville/Hazard will go to Williamsburg round 2. Winner gets most likely Harlan at home.
(10-17-2022, 06:46 PM)pirateforlife Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:43 PM)Panther88 Wrote: [ -> ]If Pikeville doesn't get a 10th game I'm a little concerned that they might finish 3rd. But even after the playoffs get started doesn't the RPI still get calculated from those games too?
No playoff games are not calculated into rpi. I think Pikeville may be 3rd if Hazard beats Shelby Valley and Raceland beats Lawrence and Paintsville. I would have it if Pikeville and Raceland had to play 3rd round. Clearly beat 2 1A teams. Paintsville will probably the the 4 seed in round 3. Think they are better than Bishop Brossart who they’d most likely face round 2. Loser of Pikeville/Hazard will go to Williamsburg round 2. Winner gets most likely Harlan at home.
Don't forget Country Day. They are in 3rd now and if they was to beat Metcalf County they will get a pretty good boost
Kentucky's playoff system does not make any sense. Either seed at the beginning, or not at all.
(10-17-2022, 06:52 PM)Panther88 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:46 PM)pirateforlife Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:43 PM)Panther88 Wrote: [ -> ]If Pikeville doesn't get a 10th game I'm a little concerned that they might finish 3rd. But even after the playoffs get started doesn't the RPI still get calculated from those games too?
No playoff games are not calculated into rpi. I think Pikeville may be 3rd if Hazard beats Shelby Valley and Raceland beats Lawrence and Paintsville. I would have it if Pikeville and Raceland had to play 3rd round. Clearly beat 2 1A teams. Paintsville will probably the the 4 seed in round 3. Think they are better than Bishop Brossart who they’d most likely face round 2. Loser of Pikeville/Hazard will go to Williamsburg round 2. Winner gets most likely Harlan at home.
Don't forget Country Day. They are in 3rd now and if they was to beat Metcalf County they will get a pretty good boost
Well I was talking about in the East. KCD is in the West. Couldn’t play them to semi finals
(10-17-2022, 07:01 PM)pirateforlife Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:52 PM)Panther88 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:46 PM)pirateforlife Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:43 PM)Panther88 Wrote: [ -> ]If Pikeville doesn't get a 10th game I'm a little concerned that they might finish 3rd. But even after the playoffs get started doesn't the RPI still get calculated from those games too?
No playoff games are not calculated into rpi. I think Pikeville may be 3rd if Hazard beats Shelby Valley and Raceland beats Lawrence and Paintsville. I would have it if Pikeville and Raceland had to play 3rd round. Clearly beat 2 1A teams. Paintsville will probably the the 4 seed in round 3. Think they are better than Bishop Brossart who they’d most likely face round 2. Loser of Pikeville/Hazard will go to Williamsburg round 2. Winner gets most likely Harlan at home.
Don't forget Country Day. They are in 3rd now and if they was to beat Metcalf County they will get a pretty good boost
Well I was talking about in the East. KCD is in the West. Couldn’t play them to semi finals
Yeah but I don't want to go at all lol
(10-17-2022, 06:59 PM)Jarons Wrote: [ -> ]Kentucky's playoff system does not make any sense. Either seed at the beginning, or not at all.
The reason is they don’t want teams traveling too far. For example. Say Pikeville was 1 seed and a team like Russellville was 16 then they they would have to travel over 5 hours in that scenario. It is possible that could happen in semi finals since East vs west is possible. I remember Madisonville North Hopkins come to Johnson Central in 2019 which was over a 300 mile trip one way.
(10-17-2022, 07:05 PM)pirateforlife Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:59 PM)Jarons Wrote: [ -> ]Kentucky's playoff system does not make any sense. Either seed at the beginning, or not at all.
The reason is they don’t want teams traveling too far. For example. Say Pikeville was 1 seed and a team like Russellville was 16 then they they would have to travel over 5 hours in that scenario. It is possible that could happen in semi finals since East vs west is possible. I remember Madisonville North Hopkins come to Johnson Central in 2019 which was over a 300 mile trip one way.
You can still keep east and west separate and still seed at the beginning of the playoffs.
(10-17-2022, 06:59 PM)Jarons Wrote: [ -> ]Kentucky's playoff system does not make any sense. Either seed at the beginning, or not at all.
Agreed. But I do understand the problem with that. Some of these schools barely have the money to play at all, then you tell some team like that with a 1-9 record to drive 8 hrs to play a game they can't possibly win. So I get it. But it would be awesome if it could be done
Problem with the way it is now, let's say for example that Pikeville and hazard was by far the 2 best teams in the state. One of them is going to get knocked out before the semi's
(10-17-2022, 06:15 PM)Humpty Dumpty Wrote: [ -> ]As long as Raceland and Pikeville wrap up the 1 seed and 2 seed in any order then I'll be shocked if they don't meet at Kroger Field for the state championship, I just don't see any other Class A school having much of a realistic chance of beating either team on their home field unless they were to meet in the semi-finals.
We have to take care of business against Paintsville and Lawrence County first. I feel pretty confident about beating Paintsville but LC is good enough to beat us in the last week of the season.
(10-17-2022, 07:08 PM)Panther88 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 06:59 PM)Jarons Wrote: [ -> ]Kentucky's playoff system does not make any sense. Either seed at the beginning, or not at all.
Agreed. But I do understand the problem with that. Some of these schools barely have the money to play at all, then you tell some team like that with a 1-9 record to drive 8 hrs to play a game they can't possibly win. So I get it. But it would be awesome if it could be done
Problem with the way it is now, let's say for example that Pikeville and hazard was by far the 2 best teams in the state. One of them is going to get knocked out before the semi's
That happened to Johnson Central several times when they played in the same region as Highlands and Covington Catholic. Still, I hate the RPI and preferred the old system. I am not a big fan of seeding high school tournaments in general. The RPI is inaccurate and even if it was 100 percent accurate, it places too much emphasis on regular season performance. I know that many people believe that teams should "earn" a spot in the playoffs and "earn" a good seed, but I see the regular season as a time to develop players and build depth to prepare for the playoffs. Nothing is more impressive to see a team play a tough non-district schedule, start 0-4, and then run the table in the playoffs. Teams should not be rewarding for dodging strong competition to build a good RPI.
I remember when, about 46 years ago, Corbin and Middleboro , were two of best teams in the state, regardless of class. The loser of the regular season finale had their season come to an end because only the district winner advanced to the playoffs back then. Corbin , eeked out a 10-9 win in Mboro on a FG and went on to win the state title. Middleboro, one of KY's best teams that year , didn't even play in the postseaon.
(10-17-2022, 08:46 AM)Hound05 Wrote: [ -> ]I was about i ask how it would raise by just playing one more game because for some reason I skipped over the obvious. At first I was thinking percentages. So for example their opponents win percentage was .75 and their OOWP was .75. If they played another opponent who (which wouldn’t be likely) had a .75 and OOWP of .75 the value would be unchanged. But…. I skipped over the main thing, YOUR WP. Every game you play it’s going to change regardless. Even undefeated teams who should technically be 1.0000 would change unless they just played teams in their division. That’s right old school isn’t it?
So yea I guess I could see the value in one more game depending on the opponent.
A team is given a 1.00000 for a win against an opponent in the same class but larger values for wins against opponents in a higher class. A win against an opponent in a lower class will receive less than 1.00000 . For example, Corbin received 1.15017( 2.313/2.011) for the win against Whitley County but only 0.65788 (1.323/2.011) for it's win over Pikeville. Of course, Pikeville will make a bigger contribution to Corbin' OWP than Whitley. Pikeville both giveth and taketh away .
(10-17-2022, 01:26 AM)jetpilot Wrote: [ -> ]Only 9 games because Pikeville can't find anyone to play them. Lucky Russellville agreed to play or they would have had only 8.
call middlesboro we only have 9
(10-17-2022, 08:52 PM)Old School Hound Wrote: [ -> ]I remember when, about 46 years ago, Corbin and Middleboro , were two of best teams in the state, regardless of class. The loser of the regular season finale had their season come to an end because only the district winner advanced to the playoffs back then. Corbin , eeked out a 10-9 win in Mboro on a FG and went on to win the state title. Middleboro, one of KY's best teams that year , didn't even play in the postseaon.
(10-17-2022, 08:46 AM)Hound05 Wrote: [ -> ]I was about i ask how it would raise by just playing one more game because for some reason I skipped over the obvious. At first I was thinking percentages. So for example their opponents win percentage was .75 and their OOWP was .75. If they played another opponent who (which wouldn’t be likely) had a .75 and OOWP of .75 the value would be unchanged. But…. I skipped over the main thing, YOUR WP. Every game you play it’s going to change regardless. Even undefeated teams who should technically be 1.0000 would change unless they just played teams in their division. That’s right old school isn’t it?
So yea I guess I could see the value in one more game depending on the opponent.
A team is given a 1.00000 for a win against an opponent in the same class but larger values for wins against opponents in a higher class. A win against an opponent in a lower class will receive less than 1.00000 . For example, Corbin received 1.15017( 2.313/2.011) for the win against Whitley County but only 0.65788 (1.323/2.011) for it's win over Pikeville. Of course, Pikeville will make a bigger contribution to Corbin' OWP than Whitley. Pikeville both giveth and taketh away .
Yea that’s why i hate playing small schools like that. Good for development, but ranking wise, you get the short end of the stick. It’s good for them though if they win. I like the current format, especially now with crossing districts again. Something new besides the same ole teams. But they need to take current RPI format and expand on it. I know they will never do margin of victory. But do home vs away. That matters a lot in HS. Fix the out of state stuff. Or at least factor in their WP. Because if I’m not mistaken they give that a .500 too? I don’t know, I was just tired of seeing us getting penalized for playing a team like Alcoa who would beat 95% of Kentucky teams or like JC this year. It’s killed their RPI. But overall I’m happy with it. I figured by now they would have expanded it a little or at least adding another metric to it.