Looking at the scores from this weekend, Im shocked, tbh. I really expected significantly lopsided outcomes, outside of BW/LCA. Truth be told, on paper it looks like RPI got it right. Largest margin of victory came in the 4A title game. And if im not wrong, this is the first title weekend in a good bit, that had less than 3 games decided by less than 3 scores. Only 1 game was the acore nearly doubled from the winner compared to the loser. And even that game was competitive. Maybe the planets aligned, maybe not, but in any event this was the best weekend of title games we have seen in years.
I don’t know how to feel about it yet. We have so many blowouts leading to the big dance but might just be there’s too many teams getting to the playoffs
(12-07-2021, 07:23 PM)Spud6 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t know how to feel about it yet. We have so many blowouts leading to the big dance but might just be there’s too many teams getting to the playoffs
I feel it all comes back to too many classes. Classes are watered down. Needs to be 5 classes. I remember when there were 4 classes from 2nd round on 80 percent of the games were very competitive. Not now. Plus they need to get rid of instradistrict play first 2 rounds. Lawrence county could have beat a lot of teams in 3a who were playing after them much like Paintsville/Hazard in 1a, Lex Cath in 4a, and Scott County and Bowling Green in 5a.
1-16 in the East.
1-16 in the west.
Just like NCAA basketball tourney. Winners play in title game.
(12-07-2021, 08:00 PM)irishcard16 Wrote: [ -> ]1-16 in the East.
1-16 in the west.
Just like NCAA basketball tourney. Winners play in title game.
Or do that then after round 2 the 8 teams left are ranked 1-8 based on their rpi. 8 plays 1, 7 plays 2, etc.
RPI can be manipulated so much by scheduling or lack of scheduling. Look how many Covid cancellations this year and teams refused to play certain teams if could possibly lose.
(12-07-2021, 10:23 PM)Truewords Wrote: [ -> ]RPI can be manipulated so much by scheduling or lack of scheduling. Look how many Covid cancellations this year and teams refused to play certain teams if could possibly lose.
That is why they need to change that. Covid forfeit win counts as half a win in the rpi or the minimum rpi points. Hopefully next year that covid forfeit garbage is something we don't have to worry about
So how did the rpi fail? In 4A they got the top 2 right. Can anyone explain if any of the classes did not have the top 2 teams play?
If not, the RPI worked.
Great championship games for sure.
(12-07-2021, 08:00 PM)irishcard16 Wrote: [ -> ]1-16 in the East.
1-16 in the west.
Just like NCAA basketball tourney. Winners play in title game.
My main change is 1-12 and not 1-16.
The 4 seeds are the biggest issue. There are seldom 4 seeds who don't get destroyed in Round 1. Seeding also takes away from the value of a District.
I still say only three teams per District advance to playoffs. The 4 District winners on each side of the Semi-State get seeded 1 thru 4 and get a First Round BYE. This rewards teams for winning their District. You then seed the remaining 8 teams 5 to 12.
Once you get past the First two Rounds re-seed. All games from Round 3 on are played on neutral fields with ample visitor seating, playclocks, and locker rooms.
Love the RPI. Rewards teams for playing good regular season schedules, makes the championship game consist of the two best teams more times than not.
(12-08-2021, 11:41 AM)EKUAlum05 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2021, 08:00 PM)irishcard16 Wrote: [ -> ]1-16 in the East.
1-16 in the west.
Just like NCAA basketball tourney. Winners play in title game.
My main change is 1-12 and not 1-16.
The 4 seeds are the biggest issue. There are seldom 4 seeds who don't get destroyed in Round 1. Seeding also takes away from the value of a District.
I still say only three teams per District advance to playoffs. The 4 District winners on each side of the Semi-State get seeded 1 thru 4 and get a First Round BYE. This rewards teams for winning their District. You then seed the remaining 8 teams 5 to 12.
Once you get past the First two Rounds re-seed. All games from Round 3 on are played on neutral fields with ample visitor seating, playclocks, and locker rooms.
I can get on board with that. The bye would be a HUGE help and reward for teams winning their district. They then host the second round games. I like semi final games being at EKU and WKU and finals being held at UK.
(12-08-2021, 10:47 AM)Bull got out! Wrote: [ -> ]Great championship games for sure.
Which is what it is designed to produce.
(12-08-2021, 12:21 PM)irishcard16 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 11:41 AM)EKUAlum05 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2021, 08:00 PM)irishcard16 Wrote: [ -> ]1-16 in the East.
1-16 in the west.
Just like NCAA basketball tourney. Winners play in title game.
My main change is 1-12 and not 1-16.
The 4 seeds are the biggest issue. There are seldom 4 seeds who don't get destroyed in Round 1. Seeding also takes away from the value of a District.
I still say only three teams per District advance to playoffs. The 4 District winners on each side of the Semi-State get seeded 1 thru 4 and get a First Round BYE. This rewards teams for winning their District. You then seed the remaining 8 teams 5 to 12.
Once you get past the First two Rounds re-seed. All games from Round 3 on are played on neutral fields with ample visitor seating, playclocks, and locker rooms.
I can get on board with that. The bye would be a HUGE help and reward for teams winning their district. They then host the second round games. I like semi final games being at EKU and WKU and finals being held at UK.
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I'm not sure KY can be so equally divided in some classes as to play on neutral sites in Richmond and Bowling Green. I don't think that would fly for coaches, officials or any administration.
RPI has only been used in what, the last 3 seasons?
Where in those three seasons did you think that the two best teams did not make the Finals?
(12-08-2021, 12:21 PM)irishcard16 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 11:41 AM)EKUAlum05 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2021, 08:00 PM)irishcard16 Wrote: [ -> ]1-16 in the East.
1-16 in the west.
Just like NCAA basketball tourney. Winners play in title game.
My main change is 1-12 and not 1-16.
The 4 seeds are the biggest issue. There are seldom 4 seeds who don't get destroyed in Round 1. Seeding also takes away from the value of a District.
I still say only three teams per District advance to playoffs. The 4 District winners on each side of the Semi-State get seeded 1 thru 4 and get a First Round BYE. This rewards teams for winning their District. You then seed the remaining 8 teams 5 to 12.
Once you get past the First two Rounds re-seed. All games from Round 3 on are played on neutral fields with ample visitor seating, playclocks, and locker rooms.
I can get on board with that. The bye would be a HUGE help and reward for teams winning their district. They then host the second round games. I like semi final games being at EKU and WKU and finals being held at UK.
Not even sure the Semi-Finals have to be at that type of Venue. Especially since there are so many game and some of those CFB teams are still actively playing that weekend.
At this point there are a great number of High Schools with quality facilities all around the State. I think schools should petition/bid to be an approved neutral site location. Even if their team doesn't make it deep in the post-season they can still host and get a portion of the gate. This way you can have a list at disposal so you can make sure you keep travel distance down. It will also keep cost down as I am sure college venues come at a premium.
There are pre-requisites that has to be met to qualify. Must have turf, must have ample visitor seating, must have handicap accessibility, must have ample restrooms, ample parking or a parking plan, must have functioning playclocks, ample lighting, functioning wifi, ample pressbox room for broadcast.
Imagine these Semi-Finals:
1A (Friday) Pikeville vs. Raceland at Johnson Central
1A (Saturday) Russellville vs. Bethlehem at Warren East
2A (Friday) LCA vs. Middlesboro at Madison Central
2A (Saturday) Beechwood vs. Mayfield at South Oldham
3A (Saturday) Belfry vs. East Carter at Johnson Central
3A (Friday) Tilghman vs. Glasgow at Hopkinsville
4A (Saturday) Johnson Central vs. Franklin County at Madison Central
4A (Friday) Boyle County vs. Logan County at South Oldham
5A (Friday) South Warren v. Woodford County at Warren East
5A (Saturday) Frederick Douglass vs. Owensboro at Hopkinsville
6A (Friday) St. X vs. Madison Central at Collins
6A (Saturday) Trinity vs. Male at Collins
You guys over thinking the hell out of it. Part of the fun of high school football is the huge games at your own place knowing you've earned that home game and knowing you get to go out one last time in your own backyard. Or getting to go to someone elses own stadium and pull off the upset in a hostile environment. It's an awesome sight seeing the town shut down for a huge final four game with a state birth on the line.
I don't remember a time in the last few years with RPI where the two best teams weren't in the finals producing an entertaining, close state champ.
(12-08-2021, 01:50 PM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys over thinking the hell out of it. Part of the fun of high school football is the huge games at your own place knowing you've earned that home game and knowing you get to go out one last time in your own backyard. Or getting to go to someone elses own stadium and pull off the upset in a hostile environment. It's an awesome sight seeing the town shut down for a huge final four game with a state birth on the line.
I don't remember a time in the last few years with RPI where the two best teams weren't in the finals producing an entertaining, close state champ.
I agree, taking away home field advantage takes away from the incredible environments that high school football produces.
My only issue with the RPI system is you no longer have true "Regional" championship games, other wise I think it has done a good job getting the two best teams into the State championship.
I don't like the idea of playing neutral site games before the finals. Many times the semi finals provide a better home atmosphere that neutral sites just can't provide. I think of the Belfry game at East Carter. Great high school football atmosphere. I also think of the past semi finals at Belfry. I'm sure others could think of several others also. The Belfry at Corbin in 16 was one of the best high school atmospheres I've seen. Your not going to get that at a neutral site.
I will give you all not having neutral sites til finals but there has to be a criteria that a school has to meet to get to host that important of a game. Playing surface, appropriate seating, play clocks etc
In 4A it did. Had not been for the RPI Boyle and Johnson Central could not had played in the finals. They would have met in the East side of the semi finals. 2 best teams got to play in the Championship game as it should be. It worked in 4A.
(12-08-2021, 11:42 AM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ]Love the RPI. Rewards teams for playing good regular season schedules, makes the championship game consist of the two best teams more times than not.
It also rewards teams that play larger schools they can beat.
I had posted in a thread earlier in the season about how RPI is not a bad thing once you understand the formulas, people thought I was crazy. After looking at all the finals and the close, but great games this year I am 100% confident in the system. The only provision that could improve it would be seeding earlier. In 4a for example, Boyle and lex cath or Franklin and Louisville Central. There is no way one of those teams were not better than some of the other teams playing for regional titles. I think district playoffs are a waste, crown your winner through regular season and rpi each round of the playoffs, it may cause some travel but it allows teams to play someone other than a team they have already played, it may allow a team to find there rhythm and could make more interesting early games.
(12-08-2021, 06:29 PM)2000PHS Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 11:42 AM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ]Love the RPI. Rewards teams for playing good regular season schedules, makes the championship game consist of the two best teams more times than not.
It also rewards teams that play larger schools they can beat.
That’s true. But if it’s larger schools that are bad and have bad records it’s not effecting the RPI in a positive way that much. I know for 1A and 2A it’s a little more manipulative. But you’re also not finding many big schools that are gonna risk losing to a smaller school.
(12-08-2021, 05:31 PM)Rebel55 Wrote: [ -> ]In 4A it did. Had not been for the RPI Boyle and Johnson Central could not had played in the finals. They would have met in the East side of the semi finals. 2 best teams got to play in the Championship game as it should be. It worked in 4A.
It did this year but last year JC was so beat up by semis it was crazy, I think it would’ve been better had Jc played Franklin or Corbin in the semi and Boyle played the other, wouldn’t change the outcome but more entertainment for everyone. If you could somehow get the honest to god best 4 teams in each class in the semis and host at a neutral site it would propel our playoff system above all other states, I’d take 3 blowout games to get a good semi and finals games.
The RPI does not "work." In some years, the best two teams will meet in the finals and in other years they won't. Not only is the RPI a poor reflection of the relative strength of teams, it causes some teams to schedule to improve their chances of a high RPI instead of actually improving their team.
Trinity had the 19th highest RPI in 6A this season. It was a down year for Trinity, but does anybody believe that Trinity was not one of the top 4 teams in Kentucky this year? The RPI does not reward teams for playing strong schedules with out-of-state teams and it does not reward teams for playing strong teams and losing by narrow margins.
The best programs in Kentucky will continue to disregard the RPI when making out their non-district schedules. Weaker programs will schedule to maximize their RPIs at the cost of fielding weaker teams.
(12-08-2021, 08:45 PM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 06:29 PM)2000PHS Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 11:42 AM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ]Love the RPI. Rewards teams for playing good regular season schedules, makes the championship game consist of the two best teams more times than not.
It also rewards teams that play larger schools they can beat.
That’s true. But if it’s larger schools that are bad and have bad records it’s not effecting the RPI in a positive way that much. I know for 1A and 2A it’s a little more manipulative. But you’re also not finding many big schools that are gonna risk losing to a smaller school.
See KCD as an example. They play the terrible 6A schools in Louisville to be near the top in 1A every year. In reality, they have probably not been a top 6 school in any year.
(12-08-2021, 10:18 PM)2000PHS Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 08:45 PM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 06:29 PM)2000PHS Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 11:42 AM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ]Love the RPI. Rewards teams for playing good regular season schedules, makes the championship game consist of the two best teams more times than not.
It also rewards teams that play larger schools they can beat.
That’s true. But if it’s larger schools that are bad and have bad records it’s not effecting the RPI in a positive way that much. I know for 1A and 2A it’s a little more manipulative. But you’re also not finding many big schools that are gonna risk losing to a smaller school.
See KCD as an example. They play the terrible 6A schools in Louisville to be near the top in 1A every year. In reality, they have probably not been a top 6 school in any year.
No knock to Paintsville they handled business well last year, but that KCD team may have been the worst team I’ve ever seen play for a title. Newport Cath, Hazard, Raceland (basically every team Paintsville played on the way there) and Pikeville and Phelps where better than them.
(12-08-2021, 10:08 PM)Hoot Gibson Wrote: [ -> ]The RPI does not "work." In some years, the best two teams will meet in the finals and in other years they won't. Not only is the RPI a poor reflection of the relative strength of teams, it causes some teams to schedule to improve their chances of a high RPI instead of actually improving their team.
Trinity had the 19th highest RPI in 6A this season. It was a down year for Trinity, but does anybody believe that Trinity was not one of the top 4 teams in Kentucky this year? The RPI does not reward teams for playing strong schedules with out-of-state teams and it does not reward teams for playing strong teams and losing by narrow margins.
The best programs in Kentucky will continue to disregard the RPI when making out their non-district schedules. Weaker programs will schedule to maximize their RPIs at the cost of fielding weaker teams.
I meant to say "...
does anybody believe that Trinity was not one of the top 4 teams in 6A this year?"
(12-08-2021, 06:29 PM)2000PHS Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2021, 11:42 AM)FootballFan1999 Wrote: [ -> ]Love the RPI. Rewards teams for playing good regular season schedules, makes the championship game consist of the two best teams more times than not.
It also rewards teams that play larger schools they can beat.
And then there are the teams like Boyle, or Belfry, among others that schedule bigger competition and live on the mantra of getting better by it. Were there any state champs that met the criteria you mentioned? You know, who, easy scheduled beatable teams and used it to get to a title?