Another reason that I donât like this new rpi system. Usually by the third round of the playoffs, most of the blowout games are over. Well this year, out of 24 third round playoff games, only 6 were not blowouts. I would much rather see the cross districting and get rid of the rpi.
mysonis55 Wrote:Another reason that I donât like this new rpi system. Usually by the third round of the playoffs, most of the blowout games are over. Well this year, out of 24 third round playoff games, only 6 were not blowouts. I would much rather see the cross districting and get rid of the rpi.
Lot more blowouts with RPI in the region games. Lot more travel as well. Seems as if the two reasons the change was made actually made it worst.
I understand the underlying issue. It’s been the same issue that has been there since they went to 6 classes. They want to fight against getting private’s into their own class or doing the right thing which is a plus 1 system for private’s. The private’s attorneys have far too much pull. So, they decided to go to 6 classes instead of say 5. That way, they would have several classes that didn’t have private’s, so the complaints would subside. So, then they started getting a bunch of 1st and 2nd round blowouts and the usual underdogs complaining about having to travel to take those beatings. So, they did this. Now you have those underdogs going on the road in the 3rd round to take those beatings. When, it’s simple, go to 5 classes, do a plus 1 for privates and go back to the top 2-3 teams in district advance to the playoffs. But do the cross bracketing. There are districts that just are not strong enough to have a team make the third round.
No playoff system can hide the fact that there is a huge gap between Kentucky's have and have not football teams. Each year, each class contains only a handful of teams with any shot at winning a state title or avoiding a running clock loss against one of the few real contenders. Kentucky is not a football state and never has been.
Next year's best team in each class will most likely be one of this season's semifinalists. The same will be true five years from now. The balance of power among Kentucky's high school football teams changes very little from year to year compared to surrounding states like Indiana and Ohio.
4 classes and 2 private classes small/ Large
Everyone has an opinion and there is not a system that everyone will agree upon. So, just play the game!
5 classes and privates play up a class is the best in my opinion, I built out what that would look like a few years ago but lost that spreadsheet
Iâve said it for years. You have about 4 teams in each class who can actually compete at a high level, most times less than 4. Iâm afraid that no system will drastically change this scenario unless you had fewer classes, and we all know that will not happen in the foreseeable future.
Other than dropping a class the next viable option to prevent this would be to seed every single round based on the RPI. You had several districts this year that had multiple top ten teams in them, but because of this format only one of those teams advanced to the third round. CAL, DeSales, and Mercer County is a great example of this. Unfortunately we could not implement this system due to travel time and things of that nature. It is what it is. Hopefully this round and the next will provide more excitement.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:No playoff system can hide the fact that there is a huge gap between Kentucky's have and have not football teams. Each year, each class contains only a handful of teams with any shot at winning a state title or avoiding a running clock loss against one of the few real contenders. Kentucky is not a football state and never has been.
Next year's best team in each class will most likely be one of this season's semifinalists. The same will be true five years from now. [b]The balance of power among Kentucky's high school football teams changes very little from year to year compared to surrounding states like Indiana and Ohio.[b]
The reason for this is the quality of coaching. I've been fortunate to be around a legendary coach and I've also been around a few duds. The major difference between the two types in my eyes was the support system (community, admins, quality assistant coaches) and accountability (holding parents just as accountable as the kids). The quality of coaching is lacking in KY and is in a downward spiral.
MountainSports Wrote:The reason for this is the quality of coaching. I've been fortunate to be around a legendary coach and I've also been around a few duds. The major difference between the two types in my eyes was the support system (community, admins, quality assistant coaches) and accountability (holding parents just as accountable as the kids). The quality of coaching is lacking in KY and is in a downward spiral.
I agree 100 percent. Unfortunately, my oldest son only got to play one year under Bill Musick at Johnson Central and both boys graduated during the dark days before Jim Matney rescued the program. So, what I am going to say is not meant as a criticism of either Johnson Central coach, both of whom I hold a great deal of respect.
I spent a brief period around a head coach named Rick Wimmer, who currently coaches at Fishers High School in Indiana. Coach Wimmer did things that I have never heard of any Kentucky coach doing that demonstrated a commitment to his players, parents, and community that I have never witnessed in any other coach.
Every Thursday night during football season, Coach Wimmer and his staff hosted a dinner for his players and parents in the high school cafeteria. A local restaurant provided pasta and parents were expected to provide side dishes. Coach Wimmer and his staff provided scouting reports of the next night's opponent, video highlights of the previous week's game, and presentations such as Scout Team Player of the Week, Offensive and Defensive Players of the week, etc. Wimmer and his staff took and answered questions from parents.
Another thing that really impressed me about Rick Wimmer was that he and his staff compiled DVD highlights for any of his players who were interested in playing college football at any level from junior college to D1 NCAA.
In addition, Wimmer organized events involving other area high school coaches where small college coaches and recruiters could meet graduating players and their coaches, and take away DVDs of players to watch later.
Most Kentucky high school coaches lack the commitment necessary to field fundamentally sound football teams or build the kind of parental and community support that it takes to build and sustain a strong program over time.
Rick Wimmer is one of only four Indiana high school coaches to have won state titles with two different schools and he ranks 8th among active coaches in wins. His career record is a bit deceiving because he has a record of building and rebuilding programs. At Fishers, his first team finished with a record of 1-9 but won the 5A (the state's largest at the time) state title in his fifth season at the school.
Fishers High School Head Coach Rick Wimmer Biography
Belfry has dinners after every practice on Thursdays as well
mysonis55 Wrote:I understand the underlying issue. Itâs been the same issue that has been there since they went to 6 classes. They want to fight against getting privateâs into their own class or doing the right thing which is a plus 1 system for privateâs. The privateâs attorneys have far too much pull. So, they decided to go to 6 classes instead of say 5. That way, they would have several classes that didnât have privateâs, so the complaints would subside. So, then they started getting a bunch of 1st and 2nd round blowouts and the usual underdogs complaining about having to travel to take those beatings. So, they did this. Now you have those underdogs going on the road in the 3rd round to take those beatings. When, itâs simple, go to 5 classes, do a plus 1 for privates and go back to the top 2-3 teams in district advance to the playoffs. But do the cross bracketing. There are districts that just are not strong enough to have a team make the third round.
I agree that 6 classes is too much. Kentucky does not have the population to justify that many classes. Four classes would be best when comparing our number of football playing schools to other states, but I'd be satisfied with five. I'd prefer top three teams in a district, but then I'm also assuming we would have larger districts with this fewer classes. Also, a separate class for private schools simply wouldn't work. There are 14 football playing private school in Kentucky and over half of those are 2A or smaller. A multiplier system for private schools would be fair, and help to balance things better than an automatic 'plus one class' given there are some small 1A schools like Bishop Brossart that wouldn't be fair to force them into 2A.
Belfry fan 75 Wrote:Belfry has dinners after every practice on Thursdays as well
I am glad to hear that - it seemed that parents and players really appreciated that tradition when I was in Indiana. I don't know how widespread the Thursday dinners are in Indiana football. There are two big rivals in Indy, I believe Ben Davis and Warren Central, that take turns hosting a dinner for both teams on the night before their annual regular season game.
CarzyRock Wrote:I agree that 6 classes is too much. Kentucky does not have the population to justify that many classes. Four classes would be best when comparing our number of football playing schools to other states, but I'd be satisfied with five. I'd prefer top three teams in a district, but then I'm also assuming we would have larger districts with this fewer classes. Also, a separate class for private schools simply wouldn't work. There are 14 football playing private school in Kentucky and over half of those are 2A or smaller. A multiplier system for private schools would be fair, and help to balance things better than an automatic 'plus one class' given there are some small 1A schools like Bishop Brossart that wouldn't be fair to force them into 2A.
Indiana adopted a system in 2016 that forces the most successful teams to move up a class for two years. For each team that moves up, a team moves down from the higher class. The system was devised in response to complaints about private schools dominating some classes but it applies to all schools - it does not directly target private schools.
How Indiana levels the playing field
Are we all liberals on here?? Level the playing field ....make the privates play in their own class....it’s not fair blah blah blah!! My team has never won a state championship and has only been in one title game so let’s some ow make it so the poor old Rams can win it every year! Come on!!! Play too competition get better develop your program! All this level the playing field talk is crap!
RAMDAD50 Wrote:Are we all liberals on here?? Level the playing field ....make the privates play in their own class....itâs not fair blah blah blah!! My team has never won a state championship and has only been in one title game so letâs some ow make it so the poor old Rams can win it every year! Come on!!! Play too competition get better develop your program! All this level the playing field talk is crap!
I agree for the most part, Ram, but it is sad that players have to suffer from so much bad coaching. I get tired of seeing so many people wanting to target private schools that are successful. Schools should invest a little more time to figure out what makes football programs successful and take steps to improve their own programs instead of penalizing other teams for being successful.
Lopsided scores in playoff games is not a problem, it's a symptom of poor coaching. Any solution that does nothing to improve the quality of coaching around the state is not going to do anything to address the root cause of lopsided scores. Reducing the number of teams making the playoffs or moving more successful teams into their own classes is nothing but a transparent attempt to hide the real problem.
I like Indiana's playoff system because it seems to result in a larger number of competitive teams without imposing some kind of affirmative action program for poorly coached teams. Teams like Indy Cathedral welcome challenges and forcing them to play up a class periodically based on success does not seem to hurt the quality of their teams. That is much better than segregating private schools so that weaker public school teams can win more state titles.
Bell Co loves the new RPI.
Guys this is a population problem not a football playoff system problem! Coal is gone....look at all the old “coal schools” that have shut their doors or lost their football programs! Where do these families move to? Lexington, Looserville and places like that! Until major companies put down roots in some of these “poorer” counties and start creating better jobs we will continue to lose more football programs! In all honesty I don’t see any system that will help with any of the problems you guys mention in this post!
Lets just follow the rest of the sports in Kentucky and have no classification.
This intra District RPI thing was to make the lesser teams happy. Some of you just said that there are 4 teams every year in each class that have a chance. Thatâs true and some of them got knocked out in the second round creating blowouts in regional finals against teams that should have never made it to the regional finals. For example Pikeville crushing the life out of Nicholas county. Under normal playoff format Nicholas county does not sniff the 3 round of the playoffs.
BellCo18 Wrote:Bell Co loves the new RPI.
So does Kentucky Country Day.
Get rid of districts like West Virginia and just seed 1 through 16.
RAMDAD50 Wrote:Guys this is a population problem not a football playoff system problem! Coal is gone....look at all the old “coal schools” that have shut their doors or lost their football programs! Where do these families move to? Lexington, Looserville and places like that! Until major companies put down roots in some of these “poorer” counties and start creating better jobs we will continue to lose more football programs! In all honesty I don’t see any system that will help with any of the problems you guys mention in this post!
I disagree. Population loss is a problem among small 1A schools, as it always has been. Otherwise, schools move up and down in classes so that the level of competition is adjusted as schools' enrollments move up and down. A 5A class school in Kentucky is, on average, about the same size as a 5A school in Indiana.
Population changes do impact individual schools, but in 4A, Boyle County is at or near the bottom of the class in enrollment and Johnson Central is at or near the top - and those two schools have the best teams in 4A. I doubt that the school with the smallest 1A enrollment will ever win a state title. Football is a numbers game, all else being equal.
The number of running clock games may have increased with the adoption of the ridiculous RPI system this season, but the quality of coaching has been a problem for many years and population has nothing to do with that fact. There are excellent coaches in Kentucky in all classifications but they are badly outnumbered by coaches who are mediocre or worse. Too many coaches are hired for political connections or because the school administrators don't really care about fielding more competitive teams.
I think the desire of the players today to endure the grind has a part to play too.
bball_fan Wrote:Get rid of districts like West Virginia and just seed 1 through 16.
This is the point i've reached. Take the top 16 regardless of district. Seed 1-8 east and 1-8 west and re-seed the final 4.
Please see the bracket included in this message for what most are lobbying for. I have heard several arguments from different parties as to what the KHSAA should do to make the later rounds more competitive and seeding the East and West (1-16) is the best way to do this. The regular season does not mean much if you don't do this. Award district championship trophies to regular season district winners, which rewards teams for a successful regular season. The top 4 from each district move on to the playoffs and they are seeded based on their RPI. The first trophy to be awarded in the playoffs should be the regional championship. I used this method in creating the bracket that is included with this message.
I picked 2A for my example because Class 2A had the most lopsided scores top to bottom of any class. In using this bracket, Kentucky's Class 2A Regional Championships, based on highest seeds moving forward would have been:
Lexington Christian v. Caldwell County (3 hours 11 min)
Somerset v. Mayfield (4 hr 4 min)
Breathitt County v. Lloyd Memorial (2 hours 15 min)
Beechwood v. Shelby Valley (3 hours 30 min)
The furthest distance traveled for Round 1 would have been Clinton County traveling to Murray (3 hours 50 min). The shortest distance traveled for Round 1 would have been Lloyd Memorial v. Cov. Holy Cross (13 min).
The state semi-finals would be re-seeded as is.
I am curious to see to what the playoffs would look like if we had 4 classes and small private and big private based on the teams in this years playoffs. So if anyone has any free time that would be interesting to see a mock playoff using four classes plus privates class.
bball_fan Wrote:Get rid of districts like West Virginia and just seed 1 through 16.
Been saying this for awhile. I like the way they do it much better.
i think the rpi system would be fine if not for the district alignment at the beginning of the playoffs, both LCAs should not have lost second round.
BellMiddle Wrote:i think the rpi system would be fine if not for the district alignment at the beginning of the playoffs, both LCAs should not have lost second round.
Everyone has to remember too that none of the teams were able to schedule for the new RPI System. Schedules were already set when "they" changed the system.
I think you have to wait till the next schedule cycle goes through to really see if this thing works or not.