I just saw this video, it was put on YouTube a few days ago. It shows a trick play from a Pop Warner football game in which some deception was used to score a touchdown, and it certainly seems the coach drew the whole thing up. I wanted to see what everyone thought about it, do you think it was an okay thing to do or does this teach young kids the wrong lesson?
(If a mod thinks this belongs in the football forum or wherever, that's fine.)
[YOUTUBE="Football trick play"]bVA3iWPUjfs[/YOUTUBE]
I didn't have the sound on, so I don't know if the coach was calling for the kid or not, but I have to say that we have used a play similar before.
I think if the team is down and is using it as a last resort then it is fine, but if this is just a team who's already up 40 points there is no point in doing this.
The play we had someone on the sideline yelling for our quarterback who was in shotgun, the quarterback jogs over to the sideline trying to get closer to hear what the coach is saying, right before he reaches the sideline, we would direct snap the ball to the running back who would pass it to the quarterback.
...sadly that play didn't work.
yea I dont think this should be allowed.
More Cowbell Wrote:I just saw this video, it was put on YouTube a few days ago. It shows a trick play from a Pop Warner football game in which some deception was used to score a touchdown, and it certainly seems the coach drew the whole thing up. I wanted to see what everyone thought about it, do you think it was an okay thing to do or does this teach young kids the wrong lesson?
(If a mod thinks this belongs in the football forum or wherever, that's fine.)
[YOUTUBE="Football trick play"]bVA3iWPUjfs[/YOUTUBE]
I think it can go both ways. It could teach the kids to ALWAYS pay attention to where the ball is at and to access the situation. However, it can teach kids that deception is a method to gain results which could carry out into non sports situations. I guess it just depends on how you look at it.
You play the game whistle to whistle. When that ball moves, it' s on! Regardless of anything else until you hear the whistle. That's part of the problem I see in JFL programs these days. Way too much emphasis on winning rather than teaching the fundamentals. Sure you can draft the 3 best kids in the league and win a championship. But what about the other kids, what are they learning?
Johns Creek pulled a trick play on us my sophomore year sorta like that. They were up 16 and instead of the qb taking a knee, he walked up to the line and went halfway down, got back up and they scored a touchdown. Then they had 40 of us beating the daylights out of anybody with a JCHS jersey on, lol..I agree that football is played whistle to whistle, and one has to know the story behind the game. Maybe it was a heated rivalry. Maybe the other team ran up the score the year before. Which in that case, pour it on. If it was high school, there would have been a fight.
ComfortEagle Wrote:I didn't have the sound on, so I don't know if the coach was calling for the kid or not, but I have to say that we have used a play similar before.
I think if the team is down and is using it as a last resort then it is fine, but if this is just a team who's already up 40 points there is no point in doing this.
The play we had someone on the sideline yelling for our quarterback who was in shotgun, the quarterback jogs over to the sideline trying to get closer to hear what the coach is saying, right before he reaches the sideline, we would direct snap the ball to the running back who would pass it to the quarterback.
...sadly that play didn't work.
Yeah, the QB wasn't supposed to move any closer to the line. Illegal Shift. But it would have been cool!
How did nobody react to the WB getting the snap from the center? Did the center just stand up and hand the Qb the ball? Wonder what the score was? I don't see anything wrong with this. It is all part of strategy, and if it works, then use it! And guess what..IT WORKED TO PERFECTION!
I agree with comfort eagle, as long as their not up by a large number or its a last resort, then its fine.
We used Snake in the grass to beat Ashland Blazer my junior year. lol
PLAYBOY5 Wrote:How did nobody react to the WB getting the snap from the center? Did the center just stand up and hand the Qb the ball? Wonder what the score was? I don't see anything wrong with this. It is all part of strategy, and if it works, then use it! And guess what..IT WORKED TO PERFECTION!
It looked like the center just turned and handed him the ball, which is legal. I see no problem with the play, unless they were running up the score. They have to learn the rules and to be aware at all times.
From the way it looked, the QB took a big chance. If the defense would have went after him, he could have gotten drilled and hurt pretty bad. As far as the question of a trick play or poor sportsmanship, I think it depends on the ages of the players. I know that players should be ready from whistle to whistle, but if they was to young such as little leaguers trying to learn the rules of the game then I think it was bad sportsmanship. It is just the same as many other clips on youtube, 20 seconds isnt enough time to judge what happened in the game.
Well, no matter what age those kids were. They learned something that day that they never will forget. When the center lifts the ball it is on. So they did learn one of the rules of the game.
I say great coaching job!
Dlinemen are supposed to be taught that they should be ready to fire off the line when the center addresses the ball. any movement of the ball should trigger you to hit and hit hard!
If the nose had done his job, the QB would have never touched the ball. IMO this is ok.
The Guru Wrote:Dlinemen are supposed to be taught that they should be ready to fire off the line when the center addresses the ball. any movement of the ball should trigger you to hit and hit hard!
If the nose had done his job, the QB would have never touched the ball. IMO this is ok.
EXACTLY............... they play pee-wee to learn the game
i guess it is alright he snaped the ball defense should have fired off.
Well, I appreciate everyone's opinions. I do think a few of you misunderstood what I was asking, since I saw some replies that said the play was legal. I do know that the play was legal, otherwise the ref would've blown the play dead or thrown a flag. What I was asking was did this play represent good sportsmanship?
I suppose I'm in the extreme minority on this thread, but I don't think this play showed good sportsmanship. In the pros, college, or even in high school, I think it's fair to try to win however you can, but I feel plays like this have no place in Pop Warner or Little League sports. These leagues are supposed to be the time you teach kids how to play the game the right way and how to win or lose with class. I think pulling a play like this on kids as young as the ones shown in the video shows no class. Telling the QB to act like there's a problem with the ball, just to deceive a bunch of young kids and make them feel stupid? The coach who drew up that play should be ashamed.
You know, I kinda have to agree with TidesHoss, if I was on a high school team that got fooled like that, I would've been ticked. The QB who pulled that stunt had better watch out, someone might decide to 'accidentally' take his knees out on the next series.
More Cowbell Wrote:Well, I appreciate everyone's opinions. I do think a few of you misunderstood what I was asking, since I saw some replies that said the play was legal. I do know that the play was legal, otherwise the ref would've blown the play dead or thrown a flag. What I was asking was did this play represent good sportsmanship?
I suppose I'm in the extreme minority on this thread, but I don't think this play showed good sportsmanship. In the pros, college, or even in high school, I think it's fair to try to win however you can, but I feel plays like this have no place in Pop Warner or Little League sports. These leagues are supposed to be the time you teach kids how to play the game the right way and how to win or lose with class. I think pulling a play like this on kids as young as the ones shown in the video shows no class. Telling the QB to act like there's a problem with the ball, just to deceive a bunch of young kids and make them feel stupid? The coach who drew up that play should be ashamed.
You know, I kinda have to agree with TidesHoss, if I was on a high school team that got fooled like that, I would've been ticked. The QB who pulled that stunt had better watch out, someone might decide to 'accidentally' take his knees out on the next series.
Sorry I disagree. It's a legal play and I think its wonderful coaching. So its ok to make older kids look stupid and not pay attention but not little kids? Coaches teach your kids to watch the ball fire off whenever iits moved! 5 yards off sides woulda been better than giving up a td! Fudamentals aint that what its about?
The Guru Wrote:Dlinemen are supposed to be taught that they should be ready to fire off the line when the center addresses the ball. any movement of the ball should trigger you to hit and hit hard!
If the nose had done his job, the QB would have never touched the ball. IMO this is ok.
Ryan Brown would've, lol.
pillsburythrowboy Wrote:Sorry I disagree. It's a legal play and I think its wonderful coaching. So its ok to make older kids look stupid and not pay attention but not little kids? Coaches teach your kids to watch the ball fire off whenever iits moved! 5 yards off sides woulda been better than giving up a td! Fudamentals aint that what its about?
Dude, read my post again. I NEVER SAID IT WASN'T LEGAL! Jeesh.
Anyway, while it may have been legit, it certainly wasn't good sportsmanship. If I was the coach of the team that ran that play, I wouldn't have left my QB in the game after that play, for his own safety. One of the other team's players may not have been so forgiving as you guys.
More Cowbell Wrote:Well, I appreciate everyone's opinions. I do think a few of you misunderstood what I was asking, since I saw some replies that said the play was legal. I do know that the play was legal, otherwise the ref would've blown the play dead or thrown a flag. What I was asking was did this play represent good sportsmanship?
I suppose I'm in the extreme minority on this thread, but I don't think this play showed good sportsmanship. In the pros, college, or even in high school, I think it's fair to try to win however you can, but I feel plays like this have no place in Pop Warner or Little League sports. These leagues are supposed to be the time you teach kids how to play the game the right way and how to win or lose with class. I think pulling a play like this on kids as young as the ones shown in the video shows no class. Telling the QB to act like there's a problem with the ball, just to deceive a bunch of young kids and make them feel stupid? The coach who drew up that play should be ashamed.
You know, I kinda have to agree with TidesHoss, if I was on a high school team that got fooled like that, I would've been ticked. The QB who pulled that stunt had better watch out, someone might decide to 'accidentally' take his knees out on the next series.
I dont get it? Why is this bad sportsmanship? The basic strategy of offensive football IS deception, to fool the defense into thinking your doing one thing while youre really doing something else. If this play is bad sportsmanship then I guess a reverse, a QB sneak, or even a play action pass are bad sportsmanship as well. The person who should feel bad is the coach who didnt teach his defense to hit first and ask questions later. If that coach got fooled by this play he shouldnt be coaching.
HAIL PIKEVILLE! Wrote:I dont get it? Why is this bad sportsmanship? The basic strategy of offensive football IS deception, to fool the defense into thinking your doing one thing while youre really doing something else. If this play is bad sportsmanship then I guess a reverse, a QB sneak, or even a play action pass are bad sportsmanship as well. The person who should feel bad is the coach who didnt teach his defense to hit first and ask questions later. If that coach got fooled by this play he shouldnt be coaching.
I suppose you think it would be cool to fake an injury, too, right? Lay down, act like you broke a leg, then when the other team shows a bit of human compassion for your health - BAM! - that's when you get 'em!
This play was not even in the same ballpark with a reverse or play-action. Those are plays that involve deception of where the ball is at during the natural flow of the play, not a blatant attempt to imply that there is a problem with the actual game equipment (in this case, the football).
I'm sorry, but running a play like that in a Little League type setting is uncalled for. That is when kids are supposed to be learning the basics of the game, and I fail to see how tricking the other team into thinking there's a problem with the ball is anything close to the fundamentals of football. Maybe the kids on the other team
weren't all that tight on their fundamentals, since they didn't fire off the ball when the center picked it up, but that doesn't make it okay for the other team's coach to do this. The coach who ran that play has NO class.
In AAU we had a play where one of my teammates would inbound the ball while we were set up on the four blocks and i would yell "hold up hold up let me throw it in." and he would throw me the ball as i would walk towards him and then lay it in.
poor sportsmanship is : not helping up somebody you knock down (maybe), it's taunting, it's a "misplaced" hand, foot or knee when you're unpiling, it's leaving your 2nd/3rd string on the bench when you're up by 40 in the 3rd. It ISN'T running a trick play.
What we have is poor coaching-ship. The D should know the basics - like move on the snap and that you play until the whistle blows.
More Cowbell Wrote:I suppose you think it would be cool to fake an injury, too, right? Lay down, act like you broke a leg, then when the other team shows a bit of human compassion for your health - BAM! - that's when you get 'em!
This play was not even in the same ballpark with a reverse or play-action. Those are plays that involve deception of where the ball is at during the natural flow of the play, not a blatant attempt to imply that there is a problem with the actual game equipment (in this case, the football).
I'm sorry, but running a play like that in a Little League type setting is uncalled for. That is when kids are supposed to be learning the basics of the game, and I fail to see how tricking the other team into thinking there's a problem with the ball is anything close to the fundamentals of football. Maybe the kids on the other team weren't all that tight on their fundamentals, since they didn't fire off the ball when the center picked it up, but that doesn't make it okay for the other team's coach to do this. The coach who ran that play has NO class.
Ok first of all no I dont think that would be cool, but any football coach worth his salt teaches his players on defense that if the whistle isnt blown. The other team is fair game. I didnt say I would run that play (unless the game is on the line and I had absolutely no other options). Its very simple if the other teams coach is not smart enough to call timeout in this instance than its on him. Its attitudes like yours that are killing little league sports in this country. You fool these kids into thinking that everybody is going to be nice to them and that theyre never going to lose and never going to fail. And even if they do its alright they still get a trophy anyway. Then these kids grow up and get into high school and dont know how to handle failure and the first time a coach gets on to them for something they want to quit and go home cause theyve been so sheltered. Dont get me wrong Im not saying be mean or cruel to the kids. But, lying to them and saying that no team they play would ever try to trick them like this when they get under the lights on friday night is about the cruelest thing that anyone could do to them. Like one other poster said on here. I bet those kids remember that and never let it happen again. Aristotle said that there is no knowledge without pain.
HAIL PIKEVILLE! Wrote:Ok first of all no I dont think that would be cool, but any football coach worth his salt teaches his players on defense that if the whistle isnt blown. The other team is fair game. I didnt say I would run that play (unless the game is on the line and I had absolutely no other options). Its very simple if the other teams coach is not smart enough to call timeout in this instance than its on him. Its attitudes like yours that are killing little league sports in this country. You fool these kids into thinking that everybody is going to be nice to them and that theyre never going to lose and never going to fail. And even if they do its alright they still get a trophy anyway. Then these kids grow up and get into high school and dont know how to handle failure and the first time a coach gets on to them for something they want to quit and go home cause theyve been so sheltered. Dont get me wrong Im not saying be mean or cruel to the kids. But, lying to them and saying that no team they play would ever try to trick them like this when they get under the lights on friday night is about the cruelest thing that anyone could do to them. Like one other poster said on here. I bet those kids remember that and never let it happen again. Aristotle said that there is no knowledge without pain.
No, I think it's attitudes like yours that are killing Little League sports in this country. It used to be that Little League was a time for kids to learn how to play the game the right way, but most of all to let them be kids and have fun. Then the leagues got taken over by parents who all thought their kid was the next Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, or Alex Rodriguez, and wanted their kids' team to prepare them for that pro sports career that was definitely in their future. These are the people who think that every kid on the team shouldn't get to play, because that might cost them the game (and then the world would end, of course). The kids still want to have fun, but the adults who only care about winning at all costs have sucked the fun right out of it.
When I grew up, we knew all the kids on the other Little League teams. We were friends before the game, we played to win and we played fair, then we were still friends after the game. We played to win, but our coach's main objective was to make sure everyone on the team learned the fundamentals and respected the game. Now some Little League coaches couldn't care less whether half of the kids on the team learn the fundamentals, as long as the team still wins. And that's what's wrong. Anyone who thinks the point of Little League is to win at all costs has severely distorted what the concept is supposed to be all about - learning how to win and having fun.
Oh, BTW, I don't think
every kid should get a trophy in Little League. But every kid
should get to play, because otherwise how will they ever learn anything?
More Cowbell Wrote:No, I think it's attitudes like yours that are killing Little League sports in this country. It used to be that Little League was a time for kids to learn how to play the game the right way, but most of all to let them be kids and have fun. Then the leagues got taken over by parents who all thought their kid was the next Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, or Alex Rodriguez, and wanted their kids' team to prepare them for that pro sports career that was definitely in their future. These are the people who think that every kid on the team shouldn't get to play, because that might cost them the game (and then the world would end, of course). The kids still want to have fun, but the adults who only care about winning at all costs have sucked the fun right out of it.
When I grew up, we knew all the kids on the other Little League teams. We were friends before the game, we played to win and we played fair, then we were still friends after the game. We played to win, but our coach's main objective was to make sure everyone on the team learned the fundamentals and respected the game. Now some Little League coaches couldn't care less whether half of the kids on the team learn the fundamentals, as long as the team still wins. And that's what's wrong. Anyone who thinks the point of Little League is to win at all costs has severely distorted what the concept is supposed to be all about - learning how to win and having fun.
Oh, BTW, I don't think every kid should get a trophy in Little League. But every kid should get to play, because otherwise how will they ever learn anything?
Excuse me but where in my post did you get that every kid shouldnt get to play and that kids should be prepared for pro sports careers? That isnt my attitude at all. I believe that sports prepares kids for real life and the harsh realities that sometimes exist in it. Firing off the line when the ball is moved in between the whistles is one of the most basic of fundamentals to be learned and apparently wasnt taught. All Im saying is the play was legal(whether you,me, or anyone else liked it or not) and the defensive coach didnt do his job. Dont even get me started about psycotic parents who want their kids in the game. As far as every kid getting to play I agree to a point. Football is different from nearly every other sport. If a kid whos not a good baseball player goes to bat, he just strikes out. A kid who isnt a good basketball player just dribbles the ball off his foot. A kid who cant play football very well could get seriously hurt. If a kid is proficient enough at the basic fundamentals of the game. Ive got no problem playing him. If the kid isnt. Hes in danger and guess whos the one that gets blamed when the child does get hurt? The coach. The same coach who the same parents were burning in effigy just moments earlier because "little johnnie" wasnt getting enough playing time. Perhaps now that I think about it your attitude isnt what is killing little league sports. Its the idiotic parents who are.
More Cowbell Wrote:No, I think it's attitudes like yours that are killing Little League sports in this country. It used to be that Little League was a time for kids to learn how to play the game the right way, but most of all to let them be kids and have fun. Then the leagues got taken over by parents who all thought their kid was the next Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, or Alex Rodriguez, and wanted their kids' team to prepare them for that pro sports career that was definitely in their future. These are the people who think that every kid on the team shouldn't get to play, because that might cost them the game (and then the world would end, of course). The kids still want to have fun, but the adults who only care about winning at all costs have sucked the fun right out of it.
When I grew up, we knew all the kids on the other Little League teams. We were friends before the game, we played to win and we played fair, then we were still friends after the game. We played to win, but our coach's main objective was to make sure everyone on the team learned the fundamentals and respected the game. Now some Little League coaches couldn't care less whether half of the kids on the team learn the fundamentals, as long as the team still wins. And that's what's wrong. Anyone who thinks the point of Little League is to win at all costs has severely distorted what the concept is supposed to be all about - learning how to win and having fun.
Oh, BTW, I don't think every kid should get a trophy in Little League. But every kid should get to play, because otherwise how will they ever learn anything?
HAIL PIKEVILLE! Wrote:Excuse me but where in my post did you get that every kid shouldnt get to play and that kids should be prepared for pro sports careers? That isnt my attitude at all. I believe that sports prepares kids for real life and the harsh realities that sometimes exist in it. Firing off the line when the ball is moved in between the whistles is one of the most basic of fundamentals to be learned and apparently wasnt taught. All Im saying is the play was legal(whether you,me, or anyone else liked it or not) and the defensive coach didnt do his job. Dont even get me started about psycotic parents who want their kids in the game. As far as every kid getting to play I agree to a point. Football is different from nearly every other sport. If a kid whos not a good baseball player goes to bat, he just strikes out. A kid who isnt a good basketball player just dribbles the ball off his foot. A kid who cant play football very well could get seriously hurt. If a kid is proficient enough at the basic fundamentals of the game. Ive got no problem playing him. If the kid isnt. Hes in danger and guess whos the one that gets blamed when the child does get hurt? The coach. The same coach who the same parents were burning in effigy just moments earlier because "little johnnie" wasnt getting enough playing time. Perhaps now that I think about it your attitude isnt what is killing little league sports. Its the idiotic parents who are.
First off, go back and read my post again, I never said that you believed those things. I don't know whether you do or not, but what I said was that certain parents feel that their child is headed for a pro sports career, and that playing every kid is hurting their child's pro chances.
Listen, I never once have defended the coach of the other team. It is true that his team didn't fire off the ball, and whether he didn't drill the fundamentals in well enough, or they simply forgot on that play, we'll never know. But that still does not make what the offensive coach did right, even if it was legal. I am pretty sure that the reason he ran that play wasn't to teach the kids on the other team a lesson on fundamentals, it was because he wanted to win at any cost. Now, what kind of lesson does that teach his team? That lying and poor sportsmanship are okay as long as you win? It's that kind of attitude that landed Kentucky basketball on probation in the early 90's.
Read my posty agian. I never stated that you said it was illegal. All I was saying was tha it was a legal play run it every down if you want to. It's a trick play every team has one. I mean look at Boise State last year. They won on trick play aginst Oklahoma. Thats why its called a trick play. It tricks the other team into thinking something else is going on! And as far as the win at any cost goes, I didnt see him tell his team to do late hits, intentionally injure players, cheat to win. None of that was showed so winning at any cost? What was the cost? Kids not paying attention. Other team scores you lose whether your 37 or 7 the game is taught to pay attention
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More Cowbell Wrote:Dude, read my post again. I NEVER SAID IT WASN'T LEGAL! Jeesh.
Anyway, while it may have been legit, it certainly wasn't good sportsmanship. If I was the coach of the team that ran that play, I wouldn't have left my QB in the game after that play, for his own safety. One of the other team's players may not have been so forgiving as you guys.
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