With the passing of the charter schools bill in Kentucky, how do you see this impacting sports, specifically football? In what areas might this have an impact? Will it be widespread and catch quickly, or will it be slow to get going? Charter schools and athletics vary across the country.
Will new charter schools in Kentucky have athletics? Will they have football? In Florida, home to many charter schools, football is of course common. In Indiana, not too many charter schools have football. I think it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. I would guess charter schools will mainly catch on in the cities. Louisville will be first I would think. I bet we see several there within a few years. My next guess would be Lexington and then the northern Kentucky area. Outside of that, I don't necessarily see charter schools catching on a whole lot.
What are your thoughts?
I've never been a fan of charter schools, and I think their impact could be more widespread than Lex, Lou and NKY.
There is a real possibility that charter schools could make an attempt to dominate a certain area or classification, and would have the ability to ruin neighboring schools and their teams.
But, I could be wrong. Who knows?
I don't think it will take long for us to find out, though. If there is potential and a possible advantage (fair or unfair), it will be found and exploited.
KYcoach Wrote:With the passing of the charter schools bill in Kentucky, how do you see this impacting sports, specifically football? In what areas might this have an impact? Will it be widespread and catch quickly, or will it be slow to get going? Charter schools and athletics vary across the country.
Will new charter schools in Kentucky have athletics? Will they have football? In Florida, home to many charter schools, football is of course common. In Indiana, not too many charter schools have football. I think it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. I would guess charter schools will mainly catch on in the cities. Louisville will be first I would think. I bet we see several there within a few years. My next guess would be Lexington and then the northern Kentucky area. Outside of that, I don't necessarily see charter schools catching on a whole lot.
What are your thoughts?
I see this as a non factor outside of a "metro" area such as the ones you outlined. The fact that those areas already have a well established private school network (especially Louisville) will make even more challenging. It would take a huge push by many for a charter school to get up and running to begin with much less raising the money to field a full football program. May be a different view in 5 years.
How about Regional Online Schools? Then you will be talking about the rural areas of the state as well... we will see. Charter Schools may not be here in 3 years.
Places with big county schools could see effects. Hire big name coaches to get players and students to come to them. I wonder how the transfer rules will apply?
Truth be told the only areas in KY that a charter school would make sense financially and socially will be Louisville and Northern Kentucky.
Lexington schools are pretty solid on the whole and pretty well funded. Not saying a charter school wouldn't take hold in Lexington, but with LCA and LexCath as well as Sayre I actually think Lexington is in a pretty solid place in terms of school options.
Northern Kentucky by and large is solid as well, but a charter school could definitely make a whole lot of sense in the Newport, Bellevue, Dayton area because you have a lot of people wanting to move into the area for convenience to the city, but the schools are under funded and under perform. A well placed charter school in this area would be a huge success.
The other place that it would definitely make sense the most is Louisville, specifically the West End, Southern Side, and south of downtown. Louisville uses magnet schools which has helped, but there would be a lot of people who I could see taking advantage of a charter school in these areas who can't afford the private offerings. I could see multiple charters making sense in Louisville.
Bowling Green is pretty solid with the schools as is.
Paducah might make sense for a school... seems Tilghman is kind of the wild west right now, but at the same time McCracken County is a new school.
Ashland has good options already.
Could maybe see a Frankfort charter school have some traction.
The way I see this charter thing and athletics is what will stop a coaching staff from talking to a bunch of stud athletes parents and getting them to all enroll in said charter? Would these students have to sit out a year or would they play immediately?
Charter schools still wont stop the Powers of Trinity, St. X, Cal, Desales. It will alter some of the public programs but I don't feel you will see a huge amount of kids leaving programs (such as Male, Ballard etc) for a charter.
Is it possible for a current public school to switch their status to a charter school? Because if it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few independent schools switch to charter schools. That way they'll get more government funding.
Coach_Lockwood Wrote:The way I see this charter thing and athletics is what will stop a coaching staff from talking to a bunch of stud athletes parents and getting them to all enroll in said charter? Would these students have to sit out a year or would they play immediately?
Charter schools still wont stop the Powers of Trinity, St. X, Cal, Desales. It will alter some of the public programs but I don't feel you will see a huge amount of kids leaving programs (such as Male, Ballard etc) for a charter.
Agree
For those that can afford private schools (or let's be honest..those that the Private Schools find a way to get financial aide) this is a non-issue, and schools like Manual, Ballard, and Male will be business as usual because they are already well respected academic schools.
The Louisville Publics are the ones in danger as well as those small independent districts in NKY that I mentioned. Outside of MAYBE Frankfort or Paducah... I dont really see anywhere else in KY where it will make a ton of sense.
Now where I live in Georgia...that's a whole different story.
For those interested, Philadelphia may be a good place to look at for an idea.
Charter schools have been thriving there for a while.
Basketball.......recruiting nightmare just woke up. If you think recruiting is bad now ,just wait.
I am not in favor of charter schools. Not at all. But it appears they are here so I am just curious how it will all play out, especially in regard to athletics.
I agree with EKU's stance on where they are most likely to end up. It will be interesting to see how or if it will affect public schools. If they do it right in Louisville and create new facilities, it could really impact the schools outside of the top 3 mentioned. I would imagine we will see at least 5 within the next few years in Jefferson County. Maybe not all with football, but schools.
Single Wing 77 Wrote:Is it possible for a current public school to switch their status to a charter school? Because if it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few independent schools switch to charter schools. That way they'll get more government funding.
Hmmm....I would be interested to hear the answer to this question. If that is possible I withdraw my previous statement as it may effect a lot more than I thought.
I, for one, looked at the local school systems all around my area before deciding where to send my two sons. All public schools and I investigated one that is private. (Model...no football) I wanted to send my kids to the best all around school that I could. I looked at three county schools, (Madison Southern's feeder, Rockcastle's feeder and Garrard's feeder as well as Berea Independent and Model. We live within a mile of each county line and two miles from Berea's district (where I attended). I choose Rockcastle (live in Garrard) because the elementary school there was in the top ten statewide. Same difference in the drive to either school. No recruiting involved when you put them in kindergarten at the school of your choice. I believe in education third and sports last behind GOD and family. The kids go to school to get the good grades to get into the good college to get the good job and the good paycheck. I'm all for all kids getting the good paycheck which starts with the education at the good elementary school.
I'm sure the charter school thing will blow up like the private school thing as far as recruiting and all of that, but, If I lived somewhere and my kid was getting the bum's education, I'd be all for sending them to the charter school if it helps them succeed in life. The more options, the better as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the bum schools will start working harder to keep the smarter kids(test score averages/state funding) instead of the good athletes in certain cases. Don't get me wrong, I love athletics and my favorite is football. But, after football is over, and you got a so-so education, it's tough to get into the good college unless you are a stud athlete. My two boys weren't stud athletes, but, they were way better than average athletes and were excellent students at Rockcastle. Both play/played DIII football at an excellent college. The eldest boy now has the good job and is getting paid well for it while the youngest has one year of college left. Neither boy majored in underwater basket weaving either.
Charter schools just aren't that bad a thing as far as I'm concerned. Why eat at McDonald's when there is a Golden Corral around the corner? Why let your kid settle for mediocrity when it comes to their success?
papagrit Wrote:I, for one, looked at the local school systems all around my area before deciding where to send my two sons. All public schools and I investigated one that is private. (Model...no football) I wanted to send my kids to the best all around school that I could. I looked at three county schools, (Madison Southern's feeder, Rockcastle's feeder and Garrard's feeder as well as Berea Independent and Model. We live within a mile of each county line and two miles from Berea's district (where I attended). I choose Rockcastle (live in Garrard) because the elementary school there was in the top ten statewide. Same difference in the drive to either school. No recruiting involved when you put them in kindergarten at the school of your choice. I believe in education third and sports last behind GOD and family. The kids go to school to get the good grades to get into the good college to get the good job and the good paycheck. I'm all for all kids getting the good paycheck which starts with the education at the good elementary school.
I'm sure the charter school thing will blow up like the private school thing as far as recruiting and all of that, but, If I lived somewhere and my kid was getting the bum's education, I'd be all for sending them to the charter school if it helps them succeed in life. The more options, the better as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the bum schools will start working harder to keep the smarter kids(test score averages/state funding) instead of the good athletes in certain cases.Don't get me wrong, I love athletics and my favorite is football. But, after football is over, and you got a so-so education, it's tough to get into the good college unless you are a stud athlete. My two boys weren't stud athletes, but, they were way better than average athletes and were excellent students at Rockcastle. Both play/played DIII football at an excellent college. The eldest boy now has the good job and is getting paid well for it while the youngest has one year of college left. Neither boy majored in underwater basket weaving either.
Charter schools just aren't that bad a thing as far as I'm concerned. Why eat at McDonald's when there is a Golden Corral around the corner? Why let your kid settle for mediocrity when it comes to their success?
This is typically what happens, the public schools improve.
KentuckyFan35 Wrote:This is typically what happens, the public schools improve.
No they don't. Charter schools that get to cherry pick their student's improve. Failing public schools have very little to do with competition. If charter schools are such a good thing, so innovative, etc why not make all ky schools charter schools and allow them to play by their rules?The failure of schools first starts at home with the breakdown of the family, then extends to the court system that cannot deal with the student issues and also has a lot to do with now the influx of technology that parents use and let cripple their kids. No to mention that everything in he system changes every 4 years due to politics. Now imagine your job changing basically every system that you use every 4 years and you see the problems that you have. Public schools never get "good" at anything because it is always changing. Schools are an easy target in a society that everyone needs someone to blame. I have been around education now for about 30 years and there have been no less than 20 system changes I have been through. How can you be successful if your changing stuff all that time? I could go on and on. Look at your most successful programs.... what do they have in common? Most of the time it's stability in some shape form or fashion. That's what's missing from education. Not a different type of school. To be real honest you have been hoodwinked. This was all just a ploy to get your tax dollars to pay for religious schools under disguise along with a list of schools that make money for profit. It will all be clear before too long.
johnnyd Wrote:No they don't. Charter schools that get to cherry pick their student's improve. Failing public schools have very little to do with competition. If charter schools are such a good thing, so innovative, etc why not make all ky schools charter schools and allow them to play by their rules?The failure of schools first starts at home with the breakdown of the family, then extends to the court system that cannot deal with the student issues and also has a lot to do with now the influx of technology that parents use and let cripple their kids. No to mention that everything in he system changes every 4 years due to politics. Now imagine your job changing basically every system that you use every 4 years and you see the problems that you have. Public schools never get "good" at anything because it is always changing. Schools are an easy target in a society that everyone needs someone to blame. I have been around education now for about 30 years and there have been no less than 20 system changes I have been through. How can you be successful if your changing stuff all that time? I could go on and on. Look at your most successful programs.... what do they have in common? Most of the time it's stability in some shape form or fashion. That's what's missing from education. Not a different type of school. To be real honest you have been hoodwinked. This was all just a ploy to get your tax dollars to pay for religious schools under disguise along with a list of schools that make money for profit. It will all be clear before too long.
This guy get's it, 100%.
johnnyd Wrote:No they don't. Charter schools that get to cherry pick their student's improve. Failing public schools have very little to do with competition. If charter schools are such a good thing, so innovative, etc why not make all ky schools charter schools and allow them to play by their rules?The failure of schools first starts at home with the breakdown of the family, then extends to the court system that cannot deal with the student issues and also has a lot to do with now the influx of technology that parents use and let cripple their kids. No to mention that everything in he system changes every 4 years due to politics. Now imagine your job changing basically every system that you use every 4 years and you see the problems that you have. Public schools never get "good" at anything because it is always changing. Schools are an easy target in a society that everyone needs someone to blame. I have been around education now for about 30 years and there have been no less than 20 system changes I have been through. How can you be successful if your changing stuff all that time? I could go on and on. Look at your most successful programs.... what do they have in common? Most of the time it's stability in some shape form or fashion. That's what's missing from education. Not a different type of school. To be real honest you have been hoodwinked. This was all just a ploy to get your tax dollars to pay for religious schools under disguise along with a list of schools that make money for profit. It will all be clear before too long.
As the son of a woman who taught in a public school for thirty years, I agree with SOME of your argument. The school staff can't be held responsible for the breakdown of the family component. Stability is also the best component for ANY social structure to succeed from schooling to athletics to employment. My kids got to enroll in a public school system with stability in structure with Rockcastle County Schools.
GREAT SYSTEM! Saw two dud teachers through the entire 13 years my kids attended. One teacher has since retired and the other moved on. There is no need for a charter school to compete with the Rockcastle school system because they have things well in hand there and provide an excellent education for their kids.
On the other hand, I have been told by friends, (some on here) how their kids have been educated at schools here in Kentucky. How teachers encourage cheating on state tests by leaving the room or even actually assisting kids to get the answers. How teachers decided to take days off and give the kids "study hall" instead of teaching math because they were having bad days and were sitting in the front texting someone the entire class while the kids just sat there. How a teacher would put a sign on her desk that read "Do not interrupt me or ask questions", when she didn't feel like talking to the kids. Though it's been a decade or two, I know a guy that didn't even learn to
read in school. He just got passed on and on until he got his diploma. He'd just leave class and go work with the janitors and grounds staff at his school during class. I didn't send my kids to this public school system because of this, even though I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen now. But man, if I didn't have a choice but to send my kids to a school system like that, I'm sure we would have, at the very least, been homeschooling and my kids would have just had to have missed out on athletics.
I am looking at this charter school issue from an academic point of view, not an athletic point of view. I'd let my kid get "cherry picked" if the public school failed my own children academically. The recruiting in high school sports is already an issue and granted, charter schools won't help that issue at all. Both of my kids were recruited by other school coaches and professionals starting with middle school by other public schools, not private ones. It happens, and we just happily stayed with the hand that was dealt us. But my point is the academic side of things needs to improve in certain public schools, or people are going to charter schools in those districts with these new rules. The teachers in the failing public schools are going to get stuck with the less than inspired students while some of the more inspiring teachers move to teach the students that want to learn at a charter school that is publicly funded.
The public schools that are failing the kids had better get their act together so parents don't decide to charter schools in their school districts in the first place. If that means getting together as a staff and figuring out how to provide the stability that is needed for a successful education to keep parents from chartering a school, then so be it.
I'm not against charter schools for these reasons.
Can someone explain the difference between a charter school and an independent school
County and independent districts are basically the same. They just serve different areas of a county.
Charter schools are more like a private school, but in this case they will be considered public schools but not have to follow some of the rules that public schools have to follow and will serve a certain group of students, depending on what their plan submitted to the state describes.
I thought Charter Schools were created for better education opportunities. ? LOL
blue55 Wrote:I thought Charter Schools were created for better education opportunities. ? LOL
That's what I prefer to think. But, I could be wrong and it could all be a conspiracy to steal athletes and funds from schools to weaken them and their programs. Not for the benefit of the kids that want to achieve success that are stuck in school systems that generally don't.
papagrit Wrote:That's what I prefer to think. But, I could be wrong and it could all be a conspiracy to steal athletes and funds from schools to weaken them and their programs. Not for the benefit of the kids that want to achieve success that are stuck in school systems that generally don't.
Three quick points:
1. How do we measure improvement?
2. If charter schools are a great answer with the data we have why not everyone go to a charter schools. (Remember they have been around for 20 plus years)
3. By definition charter schools are for profit school.
I hear a lot of people talk about charters helping students "escape" certain failing public schools.
Why do you make anyone go to a school that people need to "escape" from.
Do you just leave the undesirables behind. The ones who don't have the resources to "escape?"
If you let everyone go to the charter school you can't keep the ones you want to "escape" from out, or at least that's my theory.
mr.fundamental Wrote:Three quick points:
1. How do we measure improvement?
2. If charter schools are a great answer with the data we have why not everyone go to a charter schools. (Remember they have been around for 20 plus years)
3. By definition charter schools are for profit school.
Bingo on #3 :rockon:
HCS Wrote:I hear a lot of people talk about charters helping students "escape" certain failing public schools.
Why do you make anyone go to a school that people need to "escape" from.
Do you just leave the undesirables behind. The ones who don't have the resources to "escape?"
If you let everyone go to the charter school you can't keep the ones you want to "escape" from out, or at least that's my theory.
I believe you are hitting on a great point here. I think the presumption is the charter school will be able to select which students they allow in & which not. Which will be true to a point. But couple that with the fact that the charter will have to turn some profit as it is a business entity as much as an educational institution will make for interesting decisions when the time comes to pay the bills. People that think charters will be elite schools with no problems need to rethink that point.