It looks as if we are near to repealing the biggest legislative failure in history. I say biggest because the bill consumes one fifth of the US economy. Dems love the thing despite the fact that twenty five million people, depending on who you ask, lost their health insurance due to the mandate. And while the Obama Administration fudges the numbers in their favor in saying there are 30 million who did not have insurance, but thanks to ObamaCare now do, the real number affected is somewhere between 6 and 7 million. And even then, of the 7 million reported many of those were actually just dental plans. The rest are part of a Medicaid expansion.
The whole thing is fake and always has been. The doubled insurance premiums for the rest of America however are very real, as are the on average 20,000 dollars out of pocket costs per family annually for those who actually pay for their own insurance.
I love analogies and this is how I would analogize self righteous Republicans (Rand Paul for example) right now. And that isn't to say that the good Senator's health care plan is not viable, it looks good to me.
Since the days of Newt Gingrich's Contract with America, the Republicans have been largely neutralized by a number of factors. Among them are the efforts to define Republicans by the media and Dems, in the most public fashion BTW, that have gone completely unchallenged. Added to that is the Republican predilection of always avoiding public spats with their counterparts which, rather than making them look to be above it all as they suppose, actually makes them look weak in the eyes of the voter. For decades now Democrats have called out Republicans for being stupid, irrelevant and passé. And all the continued passivity has gotten them is even more intense public criticism. But I see the disoriented Republican Conference as being on a river raft ride where they have been at the mercy of the current since Newt's day.
They've twisted and turned down that river now for decades and to my mind, were about to make their way out into the political oblivion of the Gulf of Mexico. Then came DJT and offered them a life line. Now, anyway one would care to analogize things, whether up the creek or down it, they've been without a paddle and they are a long way from home. The distance lost/traveled is tremendous and though impatient pundits and outspoken Freedom Caucus members are anxious to make up all the lost ground, they can't reasonably expect to do it all at once.
The Republican Party had better wake up and recognize the opportunity which has been laid at their feet. This new health care bill does not make up all the ground we'd like. But if one has a thousand miles to travel and is offered a ride for 950 miles of it, he dare not say no. If they get this done the voter will continue their support. 2018 will see more seats gained and 2020 will see the voter again returning a Republican led government to power. The point is they need to take the steps necessary to start the process of change and the people will give them the time they need to get the job completed. The power to govern comes from John Q. Public thus, a little patience here is required.
⬆ Congressional Budget Office estimated that 18 million Americans stood to lose most, if not all, healthcare coverage if the ACA was repealed. Extrapolation from that suggests TRT's numbers may come from sources a tad slanted and self-serving.
For sake of clarity, the Republican replacement will supposedly not leave these folks uncovered, though the degree and manner of coverage remains unknown.
FROM THE CBO---
“CBO and JCT can no longer determine exactly how the provisions of the ACA that are not related to the expansion of health insurance coverage have affected their projections of direct spending and revenues,” the CBO wrote. “The provisions that expanded coverage established entirely new programs or components of programs that can be isolated and reassessed. Isolating the incremental effects of those provisions on previously existing programs and revenues four years after enactment of the ACP is not possible.”
FROM THE AUTHOR, ERIC PIANIN---
The CBO’s acknowledgment that there is no longer a credible method for gauging the long term budgetary effects of the huge and complex program for extending health coverage to millions of Americans could become fodder for renewed Republican attacks during the mid-term congressional election campaign.
FROM BILL HOAGLAND---
“From purely an analyst’s perspective, I don’t think I would consider this terribly exciting,” Bill Hoagland, a senior vice president at the Bipartisan Policy Center and a former Senate Republican budget expert, said in an interview Wednesday. “But politically, I think it’s dynamite.”
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2...ut-Deficit
FROM SOMBRERO---
Democrat talking points straight off the DNC website.
"Eighteen million people could lose their insurance within a year and individual insurance premiums could shoot upward if Congress repeals major provisions of the Affordable Care Act while leaving other parts in place, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said on Tuesday."
From Robert Pear, January 17, 2017, nytimes.com
Were we discussing overall budgetary effects? No, we were not. TRT's claim had to do with the number of Americans covered under the Affordable Care Act. Here, again, is clear evidence of the introduction of a straw man, a typical method of debate used by TRT, and logical fallacy.
WE as yet weren't discussing anything whatever. Then you got involved and evidently failed to recognize the premise of the thread which for the sakes of those who can follow along on their own, I will spare the rehash.
Suffice it to say, the premise did not have the first thing to do with the accuracy of the CBO's ObamaCare related economic forecasts, which BTW were abysmal. Nevertheless I addressed your immediate redirect in pointing out the CBO's admission to having badly missed their own predictions.
Your immediate attack of established fact was substantiated by citing errant CBO information, there's your straw man. But I'd as soon steer clear of reporting from the 'Times' if it's all the same to you. In the January 9th edition for example, one headline stated that information gained from wiretap was being used against Trump. Then over this past weekend they tried to make Trump look like a conspiracy theorist for suggesting the last Administration did as they (The New York Times) reported only last January.
Apart from the Times and a CBO rife with squirreled in Obama loyalists, I'm sure you can find statistics to support your liberal palate from any number of liberal sources, the most likely being the internet.
TheRealThing Wrote:WE as yet weren't discussing anything whatever. Then you got involved and evidently failed to recognize the premise of the thread which for the sakes of those who can follow along on their own, I will spare the rehash.
Suffice it to say, the premise did not have the first thing to do with the accuracy of the CBO's ObamaCare related economic forecasts, which BTW were abysmal. Nevertheless I addressed your immediate redirect in pointing out the CBO's admission to having badly missed their own predictions.
Your immediate attack of established fact was substantiated by citing errant CBO information, there's your straw man. But I'd as soon steer clear of reporting from the 'Times' if it's all the same to you. In the January 9th edition for example, one headline stated that information gained from wiretap was being used against Trump. Then over this past weekend they tried to make Trump look like a conspiracy theorist for suggesting the last Administration did as they (The New York Times) reported only last January.
Apart from the Times and a CBO rife with squirreled in Obama loyalists, I'm sure you can find statistics to support your liberal palate from any number of liberal sources, the most likely being the internet.
Didn't you trash Levin in an earlier life, TRT? Seems like he did not support Trump, and you shredded him?
You cited errant numbers. Deal with it.
The Urban Sombrero Wrote:Didn't you trash Levin in an earlier life, TRT? Seems like he did not support Trump, and you shredded him?
You cited errant numbers. Deal with it.
Levin was struck temporarily stupid, I'm sure you know how that feels.
Anyone that claims to vote for Christian values, must also claim that we need to sell all of our belongings and help anyone has need... come on pro-life folks, we need a great healthcare system for all! I look forward to seeing the plan the GOP puts out, I know that the Obama plan, the ACA, had a month before the vote and even then some GOP wanted more time. I am sure the GOP will not want to be outdone so they will give at least that amount of time.
TheRealThing Wrote:Levin was struck temporarily stupid, I'm sure you know how that feels.
Ah, I see, Patti Partisan.
Have you notice the more TheRealThing takes up for Donald the less his post contain bible verses
Runitup up the Butt will probably delete this
TheRealThing Wrote:Levin was struck temporarily stupid, I'm sure you know how that feels.
Levin has not changed. He is just as intellectually honest and consistent as he has always been.
mr.fundamental Wrote:Anyone that claims to vote for Christian values, must also claim that we need to sell all of our belongings and help anyone has need... come on pro-life folks, we need a great healthcare system for all! I look forward to seeing the plan the GOP puts out, I know that the Obama plan, the ACA, had a month before the vote and even then some GOP wanted more time. I am sure the GOP will not want to be outdone so they will give at least that amount of time.
A guy who posts under several different user names may want to confine his conversation to the secular realm. :dudecomeon:
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Levin has not changed. He is just as intellectually honest and consistent as he has always been.
Levin breathes rarefied air. I've always thought a lot of his opinions, except during the short time that he was struck temporarily stupid. And yet he made amends well in advance of the election (Sept. 7, 2016) as albeit reluctantly, he did arrive at the only possible rational conclusion and had character enough to announce it on his radio show. Thereupon I fell right back in line as a truly appreciating fan.
EXCERPT---
“The Great One” Mark Levin was all-in for Texas Sen. Ted Cruz for president, as were many respected Republicans like Ben Shapiro and others.
Though he has bashed Trump in the past for constantly flip-flopping and acting un-presidential, Levin says he will now vote for the billionaire businessman in November.
The reason why? Only Trump or Hillary Clinton has a shot at winning.
“at the end of the day, someone is going to be president.”---Mark Levin
http://www.youngcons.com/never-trumper-m...-november/
Would you care to admit that the above was the exact argument I made throughout the election season? What else was there?
TheRealThing Wrote:Levin breathes rarefied air. I've always thought a lot of his opinions, except during the short time that he was struck temporarily stupid. And yet he made amends well in advance of the election (Sept. 7, 2016) as he albeit reluctantly, did arrive at the only possible rational conclusion. Thereupon I fell right back in line as a truly appreciating fan.
EXCERPT---
âThe Great Oneâ Mark Levin was all-in for Texas Sen. Ted Cruz for president, as were many respected Republicans like Ben Shapiro and others.
Though he has bashed Trump in the past for constantly flip-flopping and acting un-presidential, Levin says he will now vote for the billionaire businessman in November. The reason why? Only Trump or Hillary Clinton has a shot at winning.
âat the end of the day, someone is going to be president.â---Mark Levin
http://www.youngcons.com/never-trumper-m...-november/
Would you care to admit that the above was the exact argument I made throughout the election season? What else was there?
I am not going to waste my time rehashing the campaign with you. Trump was a bad candidate and Hillary was an even worst candidate. After Trump dumped the two idiots, Manafort and Lewandowsky, and put his campaign in Kellyanne Conway's hands, I thought he finished strongly over the last two or weeks before the election - so, I reluctantly voted for him myself.
So far, I have liked many of the things that Trump has done. I don't like what I have read about his replacement plan for Obamacare. If it is as bad as what the Senate conservatives are claiming, then I don't think that it will pass. I also don't see any difference in Trump proposing a $1 trillion dollar "infrastructure" spending bill and Obama's $850 million+ "stimulus" bill. Trump is obviously no conservative. This country is broke. We don't need to be writing more checks when there is no money left in the bank.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:I am not going to waste my time rehashing the campaign with you. Trump was a bad candidate and Hillary was an even worst candidate. After Trump dumped the two idiots, Manafort and Lewandowsky, and put his campaign in Kellyanne Conway's hands, I thought he finished strongly over the last two or weeks before the election - so, I reluctantly voted for him myself.
So far, I have liked many of the things that Trump has done. I don't like what I have read about his replacement plan for Obamacare. If it is as bad as what the Senate conservatives are claiming, then I don't think that it will pass. I also don't see any difference in Trump proposing a $1 trillion dollar "infrastructure" spending bill and Obama's $850 million+ "stimulus" bill. Trump is obviously no conservative. This country is broke. We don't need to be writing more checks when there is no money left in the bank.
Okay then, LOL. At this point we'll just have to see how things unfold.
Here's what I don't like about his replacement plan. I have always known that government run health care meant that from the day the darn thing got rammed through until the country actually does go bankrupt, people like us are going to be paying for the people who don't pay. I know in my case, total out of pocket medical expenses including my premiums are slightly more than twice as much as I used to pay as of Jan 2009. After it all boils down in other words, I've been totally had because I know the math doesn't lie. I figure owing to the fact health care has doubled, the folks who always paid for their own insurance can now rightfully claim not only to be paying for their own family, but they also pay for one family who does not pay. It's a one-for-one ratio.
You know as well as I do that when one of these major entitlement programs are enacted they become permanent. Republicans can make things better, I don't know if that means very much better or not. I suspect it won't be all that great and right now I'm gun shy. I'm hoping for 3-4% growth and at least that way we might still come out better financially than if the Dems were in control.
TheRealThing Wrote:Okay then, LOL. At this point we'll just have to see how things unfold.
Here's what I don't like about his replacement plan. I have always known that government run health care meant that from the day the darn thing got rammed through until the country actually does go bankrupt, people like us are going to be paying for the people who don't pay. I know in my case, total out of pocket medical expenses including my premiums are slightly more than twice as much as I used to pay as of Jan 2009. After it all boils down in other words, I've been totally had because I know the math doesn't lie. I figure owing to the fact health care has doubled, the folks who always paid for their own insurance can now rightfully claim not only to be paying for their own family, but they also pay for one family who does not pay. It's a one-for-one ratio.
You know as well as I do that when one of these major entitlement programs are enacted they become permanent. Republicans can make things better, I don't know if that means very much better or not. I suspect it won't be all that great and right now I'm gun shy. I'm hoping for 3-4% growth and at least that way we might still come out better financially than if the Dems were in control.
Trump promised to repeal Obamacare and a lot of people believed him. I never believed him because even if he had been sincere in promising a repeal, which I do not believe that he was, there are to many RINOS in Congress for the law to be repealed without a replacement and Democrats and RINOS will not support a good replacement bill.
The end result is that Obamacare may come to be remembered as Trumpcare, and with the media's help, the GOP will be blamed for all of the ill effects of Obamacare. In other words, instead of Obama and the Democrats suffering the political consequences of destroying the world's best healthcare system, Trump and the GOP will get most of the blame.
A $1 trillion of new spending is exactly the kind of thing that Hillary would have proposed. I do like the moves that Trump has made to roll back some of the federal regulations that Obama hurriedly imposed on his way out the door, but spending political capital on another porkulus bill will hurt the economy in the long run.
Here is all I need to know about the garbage ACA.
What I pay
BEFORE: $18.00 a week/1500 deductible
AFTER: $63.00 a week/2600 deductible
And this with employer insurance.
I don't care if it rips insurance from 50 million. It personally benefits me to get rid of the garbage no matter what comes after.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Trump promised to repeal Obamacare and a lot of people believed him. I never believed him because even if he had been sincere in promising a repeal, which I do not believe that he was, there are to many RINOS in Congress for the law to be repealed without a replacement and Democrats and RINOS will not support a good replacement bill.
The end result is that Obamacare may come to be remembered as Trumpcare, and with the media's help, the GOP will be blamed for all of the ill effects of Obamacare. In other words, instead of Obama and the Democrats suffering the political consequences of destroying the world's best healthcare system, Trump and the GOP will get most of the blame.
A $1 trillion of new spending is exactly the kind of thing that Hillary would have proposed. I do like the moves that Trump has made to roll back some of the federal regulations that Obama hurriedly imposed on his way out the door, but spending political capital on another porkulus bill will hurt the economy in the long run.
Dems rammed ObamaCare through. They knew once they got enough people signed up there would be no way Republicans could ever just repeal it. So after they used our money to buy the votes they needed to pass ObamaCare, they used even more of our tax dollars to lure, bribe or otherwise compel the so-called uninsured into the fold. Those signing up didn't need to prove a single criteria in order to get covered, and the subsidies rolled in. Even if Romney had gotten elected in 2012, another better of two evils candidate, he'd likely have done much the same as the Paul Ryan plan.
But I don't believe any of this had the first thing to do with normal American politics, rather globalism. The foreign policy of the past 8 years attempted to make also-rans out of the US with a watered down military, a ridiculous commitment to the green agenda, and every effort was made to strip Americans of exceptionalism by multi-culturalizing the population with the ongoing flood of foreign nationals. Not to mention the fact that we've progressed so far down that road that financial experts cannot even imagine an economy which is not completely bound to global markets.
Maybe Trump and the Republicans will get the blame, but I know the Dems are the ones who destroyed our health care system. And they're not finished with their destructive ways by any means. Not to excuse anybody involved, but Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell need to recognize the true nature of the foe they face and give up on the regular order deal.
I think that the CBO should score this before the representatives vote on it...