Bluegrassrivals

Who do you think is Russell's best? Kasey or Josh and why?

I played against Gross and have watched Kasey in several, several, games, and I would have to choose Kasey because of his toughness and ability to carry defenders. I also think Gross had a better line and QB to help him along the way.

Based strictly on production it would be Gross hands down. I have watched both play many games and Gross had better vision and cutting ability. The only thing that I held against Gross was his lack of size. But athletic ability there was no question in my mind.

Gross' vision was amazing and he could cut on a dime. Kasey and Josh are two totally different kinds of running backs. Kasey is a bigger stronger kid who can bull his way through tacklers or run around them. Josh was a finesse runner who had amazing vision and cutting ability. I'll take Gross though.

Gross had the best combination of speed, vision, change of direction and balance that I have seen in this area. He was not very big but had suprising power. He was very good at breaking tackles. Something that was very underappreciated about him was his impact from the CB spot. He took away half of the field from the passing game and was very good at coming up in run support.

Kasey is bigger but not as fast. Very, very tough kid. Played through pain and gave everything to win. Also a tremendous hitter in the secondary from his safety spot.

Both had great football instincts. That knack for being in the right place at the right time. I'd take either in a heartbeat. In the end I would have to go with Gross though. He was two or three inches in height from being a major D1 recruit and is doing very well at Georgetown.

If you look at the numbers it's definitely Gross. Personally I think it's Kasey. Kasey didn't have the quickness or vision that Josh had, but still was great in both categories and maybe not as fast but still had breakaway speed. Kasey's ability to punish defenders when he had the ball in his hands however far exceeded Josh's ability to deliver blows. I think you have to look at the system. Josh Gross was the PERFECT running back for the wing-t. He made beautiful cuts and could completely change direction on a dime. But what if Kasey would have played in a power-I? Kasey wasn't having that good of a game against Ashland this year until we went to the I. In an offense where all Kasey had to do is take the ball and just run straight I think it would have been a thing of beauty. Both of them are great running backs though and both arguably 1 and 2 all time from Russell

bizmark Wrote:Kasey's ability to punish defenders when he had the ball in his hands however far exceeded Josh's ability to deliver blows. Both of them are great running backs though and both arguably 1 and 2 all time from Russell

I will have to respectfully disagree with the first statement. While Kasey was larger than Josh I do not think that Kasey hit any harder than Josh Gross. I have had the privilege of watching both play numerous games and Gross could deliver a blow with the best of them.

As for the second statement. I will agree that the years that I have watched Russell play they were definitely the cream of the crop. Now years ago there may have been some good backs but I do not know about them. Maybe someone with more history could throw some information our way.

Kasey Clark IMO is hands down the best all round football player to ever play at Russell and I have watched Russell football since T.J Maynard and Scott Vallance, and Kelly Gipson played there. I still personally taking nothing away from Josh think Kasey is the best! State Championship and 2 straight 44 TD seasons!

Midee1 Wrote:I will have to respectfully disagree with the first statement. While Kasey was larger than Josh I do not think that Kasey hit any harder than Josh Gross. I have had the privilege of watching both play numerous games and Gross could deliver a blow with the best of them.

As for the second statement. I will agree that the years that I have watched Russell play they were definitely the cream of the crop. Now years ago there may have been some good backs but I do not know about them. Maybe someone with more history could throw some information our way.

Josh did have the ability to deliver hits. But what im sayin is when josh is running the ball his first thought was to make a cut and make the defender look stupid where kaseys first thought would be to run over whoever is in front of him, whether he had to lower his shoulder or throw one of those vicious stiff arms he was known for

Central Ram Wrote:Kasey Clark IMO is hands down the best all round football player to ever play at Russell and I have watched Russell football since T.J Maynard and Scott Vallance, and Kelly Gipson played there. I still personally taking nothing away from Josh think Kasey is the best! State Championship and 2 straight 44 TD seasons!

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I only laugh because I know who you are.

Are we meeting on the darkside come football season or have you gave up following them?

Midee1 Wrote:I I will agree that the years that I have watched Russell play they were definitely the cream of the crop. Now years ago there may have been some good backs but I do not know about them. Maybe someone with more history could throw some information our way.

Gross played 4 years as a varsity player and got about as many touches as Kasey got as a Sophmore.

Kasey's last 2 years he was "it" as far as having a great back.

In the 80's and 90's Russell had many more backs year in and year out.
So many different kids with outstanding athletic ability kept alot of kids like Robert Brown, Jeff Frasure, Drew Ramey and others from being able to amass the kind of TD's and yardage that Kasey and Gross had.

Brown and Frasure were both just as good as Kasey when it came to running over defenders.

Ramey was just as elusive as Gross.

If Ivan had given these guys 3-4 years in Russell's starting lineup and they too would have the same kind of stats.

The only running back Russell ever had go pro was John Groves. After he played at Alabama he was a Scab Player during the NFL strike in the 80's. This guy would bury defenders. I saw him knock a defenders helmet off in the 1982 State Semifinal at Ft Thomas when I was just 10 years old. Coldest night I can ever remember at a football game.

Midee1 Wrote::lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I only laugh because I know who you are.

Are we meeting on the darkside come football season or have you gave up following them?

I'll be meeting on the darkside when I'm in town not at a ballgame somwhere getting ready for a Saturday tailgate Kasey Clark is still the man You know he is I saw you cheer for him for many years!:moon:

I shoulda known you would have the history lesson DevilsWin, and you also managed to avoid the question at the same time

bizmark Wrote:I shoulda known you would have the history lesson DevilsWin, and you also managed to avoid the question at the same time

He may have avoided the question and I don't always agree with him but he is right about this. John Groves IMO is the best football player to come through Russell. Second would be Nate McPeek. Gotta give some credit to the big guys.

In my earlier post I meant to say Gross, as a freshmen had about as many touches as Clark did, as a sophmore.

Bizmark-
I'll take Gross any day.

Fball-
Groves was great and played NFL but best ever. I don't know. You have to consider Bob Stout and John Hillman for top honors along withn Brent Muncy.

Stout and Hillman are the only players to become High School All-Americans.

Rusty Ison, Mike Jones(ran a 10.6 100yd dash)Tim Hammonds, Scott Boyd, Mike Light, Dwight Bailey, Kelly Gibson, Reno Gobson, Greg Devaney, Andy Rayburn all the way back to CB Ison. All these guys should get a nomination as well.

DevilsWin Wrote:In my earlier post I meant to say Gross, as a freshmen had about as many touches as Clark did, as a sophmore.

Bizmark-
I'll take Gross any day.

Gross played behind NOBODY. Kasey really didnt either but at least his sophmore year he had to share the backfield with Josh when he was a senior. Josh also played behind better lines.

DevilsWin -

I gave consideration to all. You yourself left off some great players.

What about Jeff Carty, Roger Vanover, Sam Smith, Bryan McKenzie, TJ Maynard, John Goodyear, Ryan Watkins, Scott Light, Steve Lochow, Shane Bowan, Doug Oborne, Rodney Sherrod, Eric Day, Creth Boyd, Rheese McKenzie, Michael Gabbard, Matt Thompson, Kasey Menshouse, Josh Wills and I am sure there are many others that I am leaving out.

IMO, Groves is the best that has played at Russell.

bizmark Wrote:Gross played behind NOBODY. Kasey really didnt either but at least his sophmore year he had to share the backfield with Josh when he was a senior. Josh also played behind better lines.

I gotta disagree on this one. The offensive line at Russell for the past couple of years, especially the 05 team, is as good of a O-line as Russell has had. They were not big but they were strong, quick and very determined. The only other line that was better in the last decade IMO is the 02 offensive line.

04 was an awesome line and 02 was a good as it could possibly get. the line that kasey ran behind this year was by far worst than any line gross ever ran behind. wills and ethan gullet were studs and brandon barnes was a really good blocker but the left side (kaseys side) was not very good.

FBALL Wrote:DevilsWin -

I gave consideration to all. You yourself left off some great players.

What about Jeff Carty, Roger Vanover, Sam Smith, Bryan McKenzie, TJ Maynard, John Goodyear, Ryan Watkins, Scott Light, Steve Lochow, Shane Bowan, Doug Oborne, Rodney Sherrod, Eric Day, Creth Boyd, Rheese McKenzie, Michael Gabbard, Matt Thompson, Kasey Menshouse, Josh Wills and I am sure there are many others that I am leaving out.

IMO, Groves is the best that has played at Russell.

There are a couple on this list that really don't belong. I'm not naming names but come on.

Just because a player starts doen't make them a "Great" player.

bizmark Wrote:04 was an awesome line and 02 was a good as it could possibly get. the line that kasey ran behind this year was by far worst than any line gross ever ran behind. wills and ethan gullet were studs and brandon barnes was a really good blocker but the left side (kaseys side) was not very good.

If Gross doesn't fumble on the 2 yd line at Belfry in 04 he scores 44 TDs before the half.

Belfry would have been down 3 scores at the half. Rather than just 1.

Coach Morris would have tightened up the Defense a little earlier and Russell's offense would have ate a ton of clock.

Russell, probably would have been heading to Louisville.

Gross, probably would have ran all over Owensboro Catholic on offense.

Gross, probably would have made an interception or 2 or more and scored a defensive TD.

Gross probably would have had 45 TDs plus. He averaged about 4 tds per game, same as Kasey.

Russell was better than the ACES in 2004 and 2005 but didn't get the chance to prove it to anybody.

But that's the breaks I guess.

Belfry had it when it counted in 2003 and 2004.

2002 was a great team too but 2004's O line was superior.

I'll break down the 2002 story another time. I'm getting cramps in my fingers.

DevilsWin Wrote:If Ivan had given these guys 3-4 years in Russell's starting lineup and they too would have the same kind of stats.

i disagree because even when players like frasure and brown got their chance they werent scoring 44 touchdowns in one year. not taking anything away from the older players because they were all great i know, but 44 tds and 2000 yds in seasons is hard to do

Gross is a Great player. I think Gross is the pick IMO! Clark is a soild player as well!

DevilsWin Wrote:There are a couple on this list that really don't belong. I'm not naming names but come on.

Just because a player starts doen't make them a "Great" player.

Everyone on that list was at least All Area or All Conference(Tri State Athletic Conference or Ohio Kentucky Athletic Conference) .


You are correct though. Everybody that was on that list did not need to be brought into this discussion. Much the same as your list in post 15. They were listed too prove the point that there are only a few individuals to be considered.

bizmark Wrote:i disagree because even when players like frasure and brown got their chance they werent scoring 44 touchdowns in one year. not taking anything away from the older players because they were all great i know, but 44 tds and 2000 yds in seasons is hard to do

No back in the history of Russell football got as many carries per game as Gross or Clark.

Not even close.

DevilsWin Wrote:No back in the history of Russell football got as many carries per game as Gross or Clark.

Not even close.

i dont understand what u said right there but the two greates individual seasons by a back in russell history are

1. 2004 - Gross - 2,302 yds. 43 tds

2. 2006 - Clark - 1,610 yds 44 tds

Here are the big 5 and their final stats:

Gross- 745 carries 5799yds 2001-2004 / 7.7 avg percarry/catch
Clark - 551 carries 4397 yds 2003-2006/ 7.9 avg
Frasure- 326 carries 2732 yds 1992-1994/ 8.3 avg
Brown- 252 carries 2374 yds 1991-1993/ 9.4 avg only 1 reception
Groves- 435 carries 2292 yds 1979-1981/ 5.2 avg no receptions

well i know nothing about john groves and im not going to pretend like i do, but how is he considered the greatest if robert brown and jeff frasure both had more yards thatn groves on way, way less carries

tim hammond finished up his career 2,310 total yards with a 6.0 per carry average. so what im gettin at, fball, i dont think john groves was the best football player ever to come threw russell. pepper redden played dislocated his shoulder in the 2nd game of his senior year in '79. he played the rest of that season, playing center and nose guard, running to the side line every other play to have coach mcglone pop his shoulder back in place. they made him sit out one game that year the week after his injury and that game happened to be a district game against belfry that russell lost 6-0 and it kept them out of the playoffs. back them u lost 1 district game u didnt go to the playoffs. maybe he has an arguement for greatest of all time. he was an all-stater and started nose guard on the 1978 aaa state championship team

bizmark Wrote:well i know nothing about john groves and im not going to pretend like i do, but how is he considered the greatest if robert brown and jeff frasure both had more yards thatn groves on way, way less carries

Stats are misleading. Russell in the 80s was playing AAA and also playing Ironton and some of the bigger WV schools every year. The strenght of schedule then was way tougher than it has been in recent years. Thats not a knock on Clark or Gross. They would have been successful against school of any size. But playing larger schools every week and also playing FB would tend to keep the stats down.

Groves was a manchild. I never said he was the best running back, but the best football player ever from Russell. He was the hardest hitter I ever saw in a high school game. A tremendous LB. He had size, speed and strength. The guy was a monster.