Bluegrassrivals

▶Estabish Justice
▶Ensure domestic tranquility
▶Provide for the common defense
▶Promote the general welfare
▶Secure the blessings of liberty

In my view, the values of inclusion, diversity, and regard for all are included in the philosophical underpinnings that make America great. However, the spirit and feel of the times bring need often times to have to balance certain preamble goals against others. I don't think any of us enjoy seeing Syrian mothers and children cast adrift on the seas. But, with extremist terrorism, the common defense and general welfare have to be considered. In my view, a lot of tough issues cause us to have to balance the stated goals in the preamble against each other. I have a hope that those on right and left who are willing to credit intelligence and patriotism to those we disagree with might find a bridge across the acrimonious and troubled waters of extremism and find creative ways to continue to pursue and live out those goals as a society. For instance, I might believe progressive taxation the best way to promote the general welfare and to ensure domestic tranquility. Others might think a value added or flat tax the best way. Yet, all would be interested most in seeing our society pursue the preamblic goals, and, therefore, perhaps the true art of politics could return from the precipice of demonization and polarization.

I agree, we need to have more civil discourse with each other. People such as Bob Seger need to display more tolerance toward the sensitivities of others. That kind of behavior is unacceptable even on a message board, I'm glad we don't know him in person - that would be bad to have to admit. I hope he reconsiders the hate and bigotry he has displayed and turns it into a positive love and tolerance.

WideRight05 Wrote:I agree, we need to have more civil discourse with each other. People such as Bob Seger need to display more tolerance toward the sensitivities of others. That kind of behavior is unacceptable even on a message board, I'm glad we don't know him in person - that would be bad to have to admit. I hope he reconsiders the hate and bigotry he has displayed and turns it into a positive love and tolerance.

On BGR, it seems mostly like good natured back and forth, and posters on forums like these, we're interested in politics and care about the country, but we don't really have the influence to change the tone. The mainstream media and social media are full of people who make a lot of money and sell a lot of books appealing to the worst instincts in people. Demonizing people and creating polarization because it generates ratings. For instance, I disagree with Donald Trump on many issues, and don't like his way of campaigning, but our country isn't going to fall apart if he's elected. America isn't just a great nation if a person I like is President. Our system of checks and balances was pretty well thought out. Our political leaders have always had moral failings and frailties, but the structure is stronger than our worst politicians, and our nation is greater than any one President or Congress or Court we might despise.

WideRight05 Wrote:I agree, we need to have more civil discourse with each other. People such as Bob Seger need to display more tolerance toward the sensitivities of others. That kind of behavior is unacceptable even on a message board, I'm glad we don't know him in person - that would be bad to have to admit. I hope he reconsiders the hate and bigotry he has displayed and turns it into a positive love and tolerance.

I'll tell you what the biggest problem in this country is, Mr. Al Sharpton wannabee....It's those snotty nosed know-it-all wimps like those from up in northern Kentucky who think that Fort Thomas Highlands is the only team that knows how to play football here in Kentucky. Who then get on the political forums to ramble on about silly stuff such as this. But I guess I can see why you want to wonder over to this forum, seeing the sorry state of the once mighty Bluebird program. I guess I would be ashamed to attempt to discuss FTH football now too, if I were you. Well how does it feel to be brought down to earth and live in a world than can only be described as mediocre at best? My, how the mighty have fallen and been humbled!!..Current reality: Fort Thomas Highlands = Ashland Paul Blazer....OUCH!!.....nicker:

Ah, if you only did know me in person!! But, that's you're loss...Personally, I would like to meet the Urban One, Bud Travolta, one of these days..Dead serious here. We joust with one another, but we both know that despite the perception, it's all good natured volleys with not an ounce of malice intended...However, concerning your unwarranted charactor assassination attack, I cant help but think that there are some serious underlying personal issues that are now coming to the surface. Don't cheapen the integrity and the standards of this forum with childish personal attack comments as such, junior. Grow up, or seek help!!

The Urban Sombrero Wrote:On BGR, it seems mostly like good natured back and forth, and posters on forums like these, we're interested in politics and care about the country, but we don't really have the influence to change the tone. The mainstream media and social media are full of people who make a lot of money and sell a lot of books appealing to the worst instincts in people. Demonizing people and creating polarization because it generates ratings. For instance, I disagree with Donald Trump on many issues, and don't like his way of campaigning, but our country isn't going to fall apart if he's elected. America isn't just a great nation if a person I like is President. Our system of checks and balances was pretty well thought out. Our political leaders have always had moral failings and frailties, but the structure is stronger than our worst politicians, and our nation is greater than any one President or Congress or Court we might despise.

Here here, and not to mention the fact that he has no FBI investigations pending, or previously litigated, such as the one now hang over the head of Hillary. I don't know how he'd have handled Benghazi but I'd bet the cinders would still be warm to the touch of what ever was left over. We know how Hillary handles such stuff though, don't we?

I have a strong suspicion the way she would handle any appointments made to the Supreme Court, as compared to those of Mr Trump, would be equally stark in contrast and in the best interest of the common good.

Bob Seger Wrote:I'll tell you what the biggest problem in this country is, Mr. Al Sharpton wannabee....It's those snotty nosed know-it-all wimps like those from up in northern Kentucky who think that Fort Thomas Highlands is the only team that knows how to play football here in Kentucky. Who then get on the political forums to ramble on about silly stuff such as this. But I guess I can see why you want to wonder over to this forum, seeing the sorry state of the once mighty Bluebird program. I guess I would be ashamed to attempt to discuss FTH football now too, if I were you. Well how does it feel to be brought down to earth and live in a world than can only be described as mediocre at best? My, how the mighty have fallen and been humbled!!..Current reality: Fort Thomas Highlands = Ashland Paul Blazer....OUCH!!.....nicker:

Ah, if you only did know me in person!! But, that's you're loss...Personally, I would like to meet the Urban One, Bud Travolta, one of these days..Dead serious here. We joust with one another, but we both know that despite the perception, it's all good natured volleys with not an ounce of malice intended...However, concerning your unwarranted charactor assassination attack, I cant help but think that there are some serious underlying personal issues that are now coming to the surface. Don't cheapen the integrity and the standards of this forum with childish personal attack comments as such, junior. Grow up, or seek help!!

:hilarious:

Bob Seger Wrote:I'll tell you what the biggest problem in this country is, Mr. Al Sharpton wannabee....It's those snotty nosed know-it-all wimps like those from up in northern Kentucky who think that Fort Thomas Highlands is the only team that knows how to play football here in Kentucky. Who then get on the political forums to ramble on about silly stuff such as this. But I guess I can see why you want to wonder over to this forum, seeing the sorry state of the once mighty Bluebird program. I guess I would be ashamed to attempt to discuss FTH football now too, if I were you. Well how does it feel to be brought down to earth and live in a world than can only be described as mediocre at best? My, how the mighty have fallen and been humbled!!..Current reality: Fort Thomas Highlands = Ashland Paul Blazer....OUCH!!.....nicker:

Ah, if you only did know me in person!! But, that's you're loss...Personally, I would like to meet the Urban One, Bud Travolta, one of these days..Dead serious here. We joust with one another, but we both know that despite the perception, it's all good natured volleys with not an ounce of malice intended...However, concerning your unwarranted charactor assassination attack, I cant help but think that there are some serious underlying personal issues that are now coming to the surface. Don't cheapen the integrity and the standards of this forum with childish personal attack comments as such, junior. Grow up, or seek help!!

nicker:

The Urban Sombrero Wrote:▶Estabish Justice
▶Ensure domestic tranquility
▶Provide for the common defense
▶Promote the general welfare
▶Secure the blessings of liberty

In my view, the values of inclusion, diversity, and regard for all are included in the philosophical underpinnings that make America great. However, the spirit and feel of the times bring need often times to have to balance certain preamble goals against others. I don't think any of us enjoy seeing Syrian mothers and children cast adrift on the seas. But, with extremist terrorism, the common defense and general welfare have to be considered. In my view, a lot of tough issues cause us to have to balance the stated goals in the preamble against each other. I have a hope that those on right and left who are willing to credit intelligence and patriotism to those we disagree with might find a bridge across the acrimonious and troubled waters of extremism and find creative ways to continue to pursue and live out those goals as a society. For instance, I might believe progressive taxation the best way to promote the general welfare and to ensure domestic tranquility. Others might think a value added or flat tax the best way. Yet, all would be interested most in seeing our society pursue the preamblic goals, and, therefore, perhaps the true art of politics could return from the precipice of demonization and polarization.

These two are in direct conflict. Promoting for general welfare implies Federal Social Spending which has proven to be not only ineffective, but counter productive. This also implies larger government providing benefits to those who "need" it. This concept debilitates personal freedom by expanding the role of government. Bigger government means less personal freedom.

I have to admit to incredible frustration over the inability of inner city blacks to move upwardly in the economy despite nearly 60 years of liberal social programs. Inner city black unemployment is above 50%. There are more black men in jail than in college.

The only thing government should be doing is promoting an economic environment where jobs can be created, and remove obstacles in education, which does not mean financial support.

Pick6 Wrote:These two are in direct conflict. Promoting for general welfare implies Federal Social Spending which has proven to be not only ineffective, but counter productive. This also implies larger government providing benefits to those who "need" it. This concept debilitates personal freedom by expanding the role of government. Bigger government means less personal freedom.

I have to admit to incredible frustration over the inability of inner city blacks to move upwardly in the economy despite nearly 60 years of liberal social programs. Inner city black unemployment is above 50%. There are more black men in jail than in college.

The only thing government should be doing is promoting an economic environment where jobs can be created, and remove obstacles in education, which does not mean financial support.

The case you have laid out is an apt description of secular humanism. Today's 21st Century thinking man believes he has come to the point when he knows better than God, in fact, what might be best for someone.

Take for example the story about the butterfly, which upon it's emergence from the tight confines of the cocoon, receives unneeded and unwarranted help from a kindly would be do-gooder; Who thinks he is helping the butterfly by making the opening in the cocoon larger in order to facilitate the butterfly's ease of exit. The move turns out to be a disaster. The beautiful colorations of the wings does not happen because the fluids necessary for that to occur were not forced up into the wing's vein structures as the butterfly forced his way out through the tight opening as nature intended.

Life is supposed to be a challenge. Men are supposed to work and provide for their families, again, as the God of Nature intended. Therein lies profound truth as the unfortunate and distorted view of the liberal is aptly revealed as he insists on making things easier for the poor huddled masses. The founder's vision was to provide them equal opportunity, (but only the legally immigrated mind you) not to see Uncle Sam morph into some kind of bleeding heart sugar daddy. Hence my continued argument, we are the land of equality of opportunity, not equality of income.

To the liberal, Government is GOD!

Bob Seger Wrote:I'll tell you what the biggest problem in this country is, Mr. Al Sharpton wannabee....It's those snotty nosed know-it-all wimps like those from up in northern Kentucky who think that Fort Thomas Highlands is the only team that knows how to play football here in Kentucky. Who then get on the political forums to ramble on about silly stuff such as this. But I guess I can see why you want to wonder over to this forum, seeing the sorry state of the once mighty Bluebird program. I guess I would be ashamed to attempt to discuss FTH football now too, if I were you. Well how does it feel to be brought down to earth and live in a world than can only be described as mediocre at best? My, how the mighty have fallen and been humbled!!..Current reality: Fort Thomas Highlands = Ashland Paul Blazer....OUCH!!.....nicker:

Ah, if you only did know me in person!! But, that's you're loss...Personally, I would like to meet the Urban One, Bud Travolta, one of these days..Dead serious here. We joust with one another, but we both know that despite the perception, it's all good natured volleys with not an ounce of malice intended...However, concerning your unwarranted charactor assassination attack, I cant help but think that there are some serious underlying personal issues that are now coming to the surface. Don't cheapen the integrity and the standards of this forum with childish personal attack comments as such, junior. Grow up, or seek help!!

Mediocre at best? Highlands will be a contender for 5A once again and should be back on track. Everybody has their down years. To compare it to Ashland Blazer, a team Highlands beat many times over the course of that big stretch would really be pushing i.t

Considering you can't even get John Travolta's name correct, you're the one that needs to grow up and learn. To even compaer someone like me to Al Sharpton, absolute shame on you. Wer'e sick of your bullying!!!!

I've actually became a fan of Bob's on here. Keep up the good work Bob :Thumbs:

I love Bob Seger!

Actually, a Highlands fan once compared me to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

The OT principle of not harvesting to the edges...why? This was left to the poor to harvest. What of the Jubilee every fifty years (never observed). The God of Israel did not drink at the teat of the Chicago School of Economics and Friedman is not Lord. With that said, a constant cycle of welfare has created generational dependency, which as residents of eastern Kentucky we have surely seen. I do not believe every person has an equal opportunity to succeed. I do not believe the only choices are Darwinistic economic practices or "something for nothing" handout programs. I believe government has a role to play in the ages long fight against poverty, but that role needs radical re-thinking. Small grants to help with cottage industries, which has met with some success in third world countries is an example.

The Urban Sombrero Wrote:The OT principle of not harvesting to the edges...why? This was left to the poor to harvest. What of the Jubilee every fifty years (never observed). The God of Israel did not drink at the teat of the Chicago School of Economics and Friedman is not Lord. With that said, a constant cycle of welfare has created generational dependency, which as residents of eastern Kentucky we have surely seen. I do not believe every person has an equal opportunity to succeed. I do not believe the only choices are Darwinistic economic practices or "something for nothing" handout programs. I believe government has a role to play in the ages long fight against poverty, but that role needs radical re-thinking. Small grants to help with cottage industries, which has met with some success in third world countries is an example.

Gleaning crops for one's fare I believe, is the custom you speak of. The poor hapless souls still had to walk out to the corner of the field in question. Harvest it themselves. Carry it home and cook it in order to eat.

We used to do something very much like that here in the US and I've talked about it on here before. In earlier times, folks in jeopardy had to make their way down to the welfare office where they would wait in line, sometimes long ones, to glean foodstuffs. There were things like flour, corn meal, sugar, lard, butter, 5 pound blocks of cheese, navy and pinto beans, powdered eggs and milk, coffee, and canned meats as staple items. Those food items still had to be lugged back to one's home where women who actually still knew how to cook, made pretty decent meals to feed their families.

Contrast that scene to todays' recipient, who gets a snappy looking credit card with which he can buy beer, cigarettes or anything else he might want while he casually cruises grocery aisles talking on his free cell phone.

That said, Eastern Kentucky residents used to be a farming folk. After LBJ bought their troubles, they stopped farming and started going through the drive thru every day.

⬆⬆ Might it be added that our entire culture started going through the drive-thru and stopped exercising, and now a gym can't seat the same capacity as it once did...same gym, bigger backsides.

The Urban Sombrero Wrote:⬆⬆ Might it be added that our entire culture started going through the drive-thru and stopped exercising, and now a gym can't seat the same capacity as it once did...same gym, bigger backsides.

In the interest of civil discourse, that's funny and true. But more folks should work at whatever kind of job they can get. Laura Ingraham's dad worked at a carwash, and he was a WW2 Naval vet.

Pick6 Wrote:To the liberal, Government is GOD!

This, of course, is your own interpretation, and, at best, a distortion.

TheRealThing Wrote:In the interest of civil discourse, that's funny and true. But more folks should work at whatever kind of job they can get. Laura Ingraham's dad worked at a carwash, and he was a WW2 Naval vet.

No disagreement here.

WideRight05 Wrote:I agree, we need to have more civil discourse with each other. People such as Bob Seger need to display more tolerance toward the sensitivities of others. That kind of behavior is unacceptable even on a message board, I'm glad we don't know him in person - that would be bad to have to admit. I hope he reconsiders the hate and bigotry he has displayed and turns it into a positive love and tolerance.

:hilarious:

WideRight05 Wrote:Mediocre at best? Highlands will be a contender for 5A once again and should be back on track. Everybody has their down years. To compare it to Ashland Blazer, a team Highlands beat many times over the course of that big stretch would really be pushing i.t

Considering you can't even get John Travolta's name correct, you're the one that needs to grow up and learn. To even compaer someone like me to Al Sharpton, absolute shame on you. Wer'e sick of your bullying!!!!

jerk!!

Did you find your name in the phone book this year?

TheRealThing Wrote:Here here, and not to mention the fact that he has no FBI investigations pending, or previously litigated, such as the one now hang over the head of Hillary. I don't know how he'd have handled Benghazi but I'd bet the cinders would still be warm to the touch of what ever was left over. We know how Hillary handles such stuff though, don't we?

I have a strong suspicion the way she would handle any appointments made to the Supreme Court, as compared to those of Mr Trump, would be equally stark in contrast and in the best interest of the common good.

"Common" ly bad is what it would be.

[quote=Granny Bear]I love Bob Seger!

Actually, a Highlands fan once compared me to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm, kinda makes one stop and think, doesn't it? Could it really be, Gran?

That really hit my empty head......mulling over it.

Could somebody tell me what a gallon of milk cost. I was told the government helps us all. But I know I pay around $2.29 at Kroger. Does anybody know if the government pays anything to keep price down. nicker: stupid question I guess. :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Bob Seger Wrote:jerk!!

Did you find your name in the phone book this year?

I'm offended!! Which name are you talking about?

The civil discourse rationale is bunk anyway. To me it's like ISIS members insisting those they are about to behead be more polite. Republicans were nicey nicey for decades and look what it got them. As long as they tried to take the high road and not call out the Dems' efforts to terraform the US into some kind of liberal utopia, things between the two parties were tolerably civil. But little by little the Dems' distortions and political bashing took on an ever more outrageous dynamic until, like in the example of the schoolyard bully whose bold demands become more ridiculous with every passing day, the objects of the attacks, (Republicans) were forced to make a stand. And not that they did a particularly good job of doing that with the likes of Paul Ryan taking the political point, but they did at least offer a little resistance.

Like one life boat cannot save the passengers of an entire cruise ship, there is no shinning city when it is subject to being unindated by the whole planet. Especially in the profoundly stupid case of our allowing in a fifth column comprised of those bent on jihad. I don't think the founders were particularly careful about their language when hammering out the Constitution. I believe they called things out as they saw them. In the orderly society I grew up in, one would have never seen teenagers 'cutting line' of people waiting to ride the roller coaster at King's Island. They do it now though. And of course, everybody else is expected to be civil about it. Nothing in the preamble penned by the warrior statesmen of this land suggests 'the people' should be mindless doormats. Respect is a two way street.

TheRealThing Wrote:The civil discourse rationale is bunk anyway. To me it's like ISIS members insisting those they are about to behead be more polite. Republicans were nicey nicey for decades and look what it got them. As long as they tried to take the high road and not call out the Dems' efforts to terraform the US into some kind of liberal utopia, things between the two parties were tolerably civil. But little by little the Dems' distortions and political bashing took on an ever more outrageous dynamic until, like in the example of the schoolyard bully whose bold demands become more ridiculous with every passing day, the objects of the attacks, (Republicans) were forced to make a stand. And not that they did a particularly good job of doing that with the likes of Paul Ryan taking the political point, but they did at least offer a little resistance.

Like one life boat cannot save the passengers of an entire cruise ship, there is no shinning city when it is subject to being unindated by the whole planet. Especially in the profoundly stupid case of our allowing in a fifth column comprised of those bent on jihad. I don't think the founders were particularly careful about their language when hammering out the Constitution. I believe they called things out as they saw them. In the orderly society I grew up in, one would have never seen teenagers 'cutting line' of people waiting to ride the roller coaster at King's Island. They do it now though. And of course, everybody else is expected to be civil about it. Nothing in the preamble penned by the warrior statesmen of this land suggests 'the people' should be mindless doormats. Respect is a two way street.

In the course of your remarks, civil discourse becomes allowing minority youth to cut line at King's Island (an offense that still gets you thrown out of the park last time I was there) and becoming a doormat.

Basically, what I mean is toning down the hyper-charged rhetoric of good vs. evil and patriot vs. traitor. I am not saying spirited disagreement is not civil discourse. I am not saying that "your overall philosophy is bad for the country" is at odds with civil discourse. I am saying that the art of politics is a bit different from the "near anything goes" of campaigns and getting elected. Building consensus and, to use Trump's phrase, "the art of the deal" constitute the art of politics.

You and I disagree on gun control and other issues. However, I can plainly see you are sincere in your beliefs, think about them, are concerned about the country. I'd say our debates are pretty spirited, but my guess is we could take in a ballgame together and pray over a meal and not feel like the other was an incarnation of the devil simply because we debate pretty fiercely. And, furthermore, if a group of teens, black or green or blue, cut line in front of us, I'd say we'd voice up and have taken the time to know the number to call to get security.

The Urban Sombrero Wrote:In the course of your remarks, civil discourse becomes allowing minority youth to cut line at King's Island (an offense that still gets you thrown out of the park last time I was there) and becoming a doormat.

Basically, what I mean is toning down the hyper-charged rhetoric of good vs. evil and patriot vs. traitor. I am not saying spirited disagreement is not civil discourse. I am not saying that "your overall philosophy is bad for the country" is at odds with civil discourse. I am saying that the art of politics is a bit different from the "near anything goes" of campaigns and getting elected. Building consensus and, to use Trump's phrase, "the art of the deal" constitute the art of politics.

You and I disagree on gun control and other issues. However, I can plainly see you are sincere in your beliefs, think about them, are concerned about the country. I'd say our debates are pretty spirited, but my guess is we could take in a ballgame together and pray over a meal and not feel like the other was an incarnation of the devil simply because we debate pretty fiercely. And, furthermore, if a group of teens, black or green or blue, cut line in front of us, I'd say we'd voice up and have taken the time to know the number to call to get security.

The problem is not that you or I would not say something about it. But if the tendency to run over people were not so wide spread, there would not be a park policy in place to deal with such behavior, right? The problem is in the carve-outs that are bestowed upon special interest groups and the resultant attitude that is manifest in the actions of those who get them. They don't believe the rules apply to them and people who resist their bad behavior would be just another race hater in their eyes and frankly, any media who might report on such clashes. I think it is inexcusable for organizations such as the CBC to sprout up within the very halls of those sworn to uphold conditions for the common good. Just as was John McCain's insistence of injecting himself in spotlight fashion into the Presidential race by jumping on the Republican nominee. The whole thing was an obvious trap, and Trump should have recognized it for what it was at the git-go. But such are the characteristics of public discourse reduced to the personal level, political foodfight.

But I am all-in for toning it down. It is always the case, as words get more and more vicious the tensions created by them always leads to directly to the urge to take things to the level of violence. Most recognize where such feelings are taking them and pull in their horns, however, some do not or just don't care. Government's role is central to the problem here though in my view, as the war of words has taken the route which has been seen so often across time, rioting and violence. The law should not be applied in any sort of unilateral fashion, it should be the same for all as should be the penalty for all offenders. Taking sides as I believe the administration has done, has taken us farther down the road of civic insurrection. Now we're seeing marches for fanciful perceptions and ideological rationales. It has to stop. I have no doubt that you and I could enjoy a ballgame and a meal and have a great time doing so.

The Urban Sombrero Wrote:In the course of your remarks, civil discourse becomes allowing minority youth to cut line at King's Island (an offense that still gets you thrown out of the park last time I was there) and becoming a doormat.

Basically, what I mean is toning down the hyper-charged rhetoric of good vs. evil and patriot vs. traitor. I am not saying spirited disagreement is not civil discourse. I am not saying that "your overall philosophy is bad for the country" is at odds with civil discourse. I am saying that the art of politics is a bit different from the "near anything goes" of campaigns and getting elected. Building consensus and, to use Trump's phrase, "the art of the deal" constitute the art of politics.

You and I disagree on gun control and other issues. However, I can plainly see you are sincere in your beliefs, think about them, are concerned about the country. I'd say our debates are pretty spirited, but my guess is we could take in a ballgame together and pray over a meal and not feel like the other was an incarnation of the devil simply because we debate pretty fiercely. And, furthermore, if a group of teens, black or green or blue, cut line in front of us, I'd say we'd voice up and have taken the time to know the number to call to get security.

I would agree. I feel the same way about TRT. We've exchanged quite a few blows lately, but I still would have his back outside of that. :Thumbs: