Bluegrassrivals

I personally feel that it is a crock that he didn't make it. I mean I LOVE the game of Baseball! But, I feel that the Commish and some of the people who are in charge of the way things are done are some of the most arrogant and two faced people on the planet. NO I don't condone the use of steroids in any major sport. But, just because someone is accused of something, doesn't give people the right to punish them. Mark McGwire was a GREAT player and so is Barry Bonds. SO WHAT, if they took some steroids. They are only hurting themselves. What about all these guys in other sports who are getting CONVICTED or CHARGED with DUIs, Drug offense, Attempted Murder, Assaults and some have served time and returned to their sports and some have been caught on UA TEST and just pay the fine, serve the suspinsion and return.
Here is what McGwire did in his career as summed up by Jayson Stark on www.espn.com.
Mark McGwire
There are a million reasons not to vote for McGwire. But of all the reasons people have dredged up lately, the one I find most amazing is the revisionist history that he wasn't that good -- except for those four years (1996-99) when he morphed into Babe Ruth.


[Image: mlb_a_mcgwire_65.jpg] Well, hold on. Ask any scout who saw him at USC, and they'll all tell you the same thing: This guy was a big-time masher from the day he was drafted until the day he quit.

If it took Jose Canseco's magic potion to make him any good, how come he had a .618 slugging percentage in his rookie season? Andruw Jones, Adam Dunn and Jeff Kent have never slugged .618 in any season, if that tells you anything.

And if McGwire wasn't any good until 1996, how did he manage to put up six seasons with at least 32 homers and 90 RBI in his seven healthy seasons before that? That's as many seasons of 32-90 as Chipper Jones and Moises Alou have, combined.

If he wasn't any good, how did this man make 12 All-Star teams -- as many as Mike Schmidt? If he wasn't any good, why did he collect MVP votes in every healthy season of his career except one?

The other shaky argument here is that McGwire just had one song on his jukebox, that all he could do was hit home runs, kind of like Dave Kingman. But if he was so one-dimensional, how did he win a Gold Glove? How did he compile that .394 career on-base percentage? And even if he had just one superior dimension, he had the best home run ratio of any player who ever lived (one every 10.6 at-bats). So if people want to vote against him to make a steroid statement, I understand that. But arguing that he didn't have a Hall of Fame career? That one doesn't compute.

People can say what they want to about McGwire and Sosa, but baseball needed these 2 at the right time and IMO saved baseball!

Guess that explains the reason MLB used a bigger core in the middle in the 1998 season.

PLAYBOY5 Wrote:People can say what they want to about McGwire and Sosa, but baseball needed these 2 at the right time and IMO saved baseball!

AMEN!!! :Thumbs:

He took a poop on the game of baseball........ Yes, he did have a solid career before he started roids, but it WASN'T Hall of Fame material.

It wasnt even against the rules to use steroids then.He sure brought this whole country back to watching baseball didnt he?

I think he should be in!!

A few points on how I feel about big Mark.

Before I get slammed for the rest of my comments I WOULD VOTE FOR HIM TO BE IN!!!!

1. He was a shoe in for the hall, then he testified, wait no he didn't want to talk about the past. His lack of comment doomed him in the eyes of the voters. He took Andro before it was on the banned list, why not admit it.

2. I keep hearing how he and Sosa saved baseball, I really think baseball would have survived without either of them. Did it boost attendence when they came to town? yes but so do the Yankees or Red Sox.

3. Would I vote for Bonds? NO, Steriods are illegal in this country plain and simple. He cheated. Is Pete Rose in the HoF No, why he broke a rule, he bet on baseball, and Rose was the hardest playing baseball player I ever saw. the day Pete goes in then let Barry in but not until.

Doc baseball lost a few million fans maybe more after the last strike.Baseball ratings on the tube are terrible except for the world series.I like little leauge best myself.

PLAYBOY5 Wrote:People can say what they want to about McGwire and Sosa, but baseball needed these 2 at the right time and IMO saved baseball!

If this is true, and it seems to be the truth, what does it say about society that we needed doped players to bring them back.Personally it seems to me these players are putting their very health on line to be better,,,basically they are taking a chance, in the worst case,,, death,, to be all they can be.Talk about giving it all.Women have their rights to their own bodies,,,why cant ball players?

They cheated the game of baseball did Sosa and Mcgwire. Lost alot of respect for them.

Barry Bonds didnt use Roids lol

Untill they test possitive, They are clean and in the HOF. IMO!

Agree..AND IT WASN'T ILLEGAL THEN ANYWAYS, which to me, makes all the difference in the world!

Playboy you know this, and I dont care to share it....What Mark McGwire took then was available in ANY GNC store nation wide at that time. I have taken it before it was banned. It was the "ultimate supplement". Who wouldnt have taken it? What Bonds takes it ILLEGAL. Always has been illegal. But I would have definitely voted McGwire in.

PLAYBOY5 Wrote:Agree..AND IT WASN'T ILLEGAL THEN ANYWAYS, which to me, makes all the difference in the world!

TidesHoss32 Wrote:Playboy you know this, and I dont care to share it....What Mark McGwire took then was available in ANY GNC store nation wide at that time. I have taken it before it was banned. It was the "ultimate supplement". Who wouldnt have taken it? What Bonds takes it ILLEGAL. Always has been illegal. But I would have definitely voted McGwire in.

You are absolutely right! He even admited it and told everyone what it was and where he got it. I know lots of people who used it when it was on the shelves. Look at Joe Dimaggio and The Babe. The way they drank and flaunted it. Marijuana wasn't illegal back in those days either. But, it is now. Who knows most of the Majors were probably Potheads back then. LOL!!

OffTheHook Wrote:You are absolutely right! He even admited it and told everyone what it was and where he got it. I know lots of people who used it when it was on the shelves. Look at Joe Dimaggio and The Babe. The way they drank and flaunted it. Marijuana wasn't illegal back in those days either. But, it is now. Who knows most of the Majors were probably Potheads back then. LOL!!

Hold on just a second. I will agree with you that Ruth over ate, drank and spent many of a night with more than one women, so what did he do Bad? lol

Did you realize that Cobb got more votes for the HoF than Ruth?

As far as Joe Dimaggio, show me one thing that he did that was bad. From everything I have read or seen he showed more class than anyone who ever played the game. He was once asked why he played so hard and gave it his all no matter what the score, his reply was that there may have been someone who had never seen me play. The man showed class in all and everything he did.

"I had made a solemn promise to myself that I wouldn't try to hang on once the end was in sight. It wasn't easy to pass up $100,000, but with me it was all or nothing." — on his decision to retire in 1951, rather than accept a $100,000 contract from the Yankees

In 1969, as Major League Baseball celebrated the 100th anniversary of professional baseball, DiMaggio was voted the "Greatest Living Player."

1955: Elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in his third year of eligibility. (No player between 1937 and 1961 was named in his first year of eligibility

Doc Holliday Wrote:Hold on just a second. I will agree with you that Ruth over ate, drank and spent many of a night with more than one women, so what did he do Bad? lol

Did you realize that Cobb got more votes for the HoF than Ruth?

As far as Joe Dimaggio, show me one thing that he did that was bad. From everything I have read or seen he showed more class than anyone who ever played the game. He was once asked why he played so hard and gave it his all no matter what the score, his reply was that there may have been someone who had never seen me play. The man showed class in all and everything he did.

"I had made a solemn promise to myself that I wouldn't try to hang on once the end was in sight. It wasn't easy to pass up $100,000, but with me it was all or nothing." — on his decision to retire in 1951, rather than accept a $100,000 contract from the Yankees

In 1969, as Major League Baseball celebrated the 100th anniversary of professional baseball, DiMaggio was voted the "Greatest Living Player."

1955: Elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in his third year of eligibility. (No player between 1937 and 1961 was named in his first year of eligibility

You know what? You are exactly right and I appolagize Dimaggio! I was wrong! I was thinking of Mickey Mantle and how in the world I go the 2 confused I have NO clue! Now I feel like S#!% for syaing that about one of Baseball's Imortals! If there is an administrator looking at this would you please edit whjat I said and replace Dimaggio's name with Mantle's.:HitWall:

I was going to say, lol..

OffTheHook Wrote:You know what? You are exactly right and I appolagize Dimaggio! I was wrong! I was thinking of Mickey Mantle and how in the world I go the 2 confused I have NO clue! Now I feel like S#!% for syaing that about one of Baseball's Imortals! If there is an administrator looking at this would you please edit whjat I said and replace Dimaggio's name with Mantle's.:HitWall:

Mantle was just a country boy who went to the city and became New yorks favorite player, everyone wanted to be his friend thus men would buy him drinks, and women would, well I think we all know what women were doing with the Mick.

Mantle's story is a sad one, he is one of my favorite players. If you read about his family all seeming to die at such young ages with cancer. He said it best "If I had known I would live this long I would have taken better care of myself".
If you watch one baseball movie, make it 61* You will see a side of the Mick that most didn't know.

PLAYBOY5 Wrote:People can say what they want to about McGwire and Sosa, but baseball needed these 2 at the right time and IMO saved baseball!

:Thumbs: :Thumbs:

If Mickey Mantle had steroids he would have hit 90 home runs.

If McGwire had drunk beer he would have weighed 400 pounds too, lol...

I feel as though Mark McGwire SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame. I mean, if it weren't for the home run chase of 1998, I don't know if baseball would be where it is today. He helped revive baseball as we know it. If he did in fact use some sort of steroids (and I'm not saying he did), at the time he played, IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL! He was being accused of using androstenedione, which is a muscle-building hormone, that was LEGAL! However, the same substance was banned by the NFL and the NCAA, but not MLB. No sort of steroid was deemed "illegal" by Major League Baseball at the time McGwire played, so technically, he did nothing wrong. You can't punish someone for "breaking the rules" if in fact the rule never existed at the time the "crime" occured. I'm not saying he did anything, because I personally don't know, but one thing I do know is that I would've given Mark McGwire his fair shot at the Hall.

StrikeoutKing Wrote:I feel as though Mark McGwire SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame. I mean, if it weren't for the home run chase of 1998, I don't know if baseball would be where it is today. He helped revive baseball as we know it. If he did in fact use some sort of steroids (and I'm not saying he did), at the time he played, IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL! He was being accused of using androstenedione, which is a muscle-building hormone, that was LEGAL! However, the same substance was banned by the NFL and the NCAA, but not MLB. No sort of steroid was deemed "illegal" by Major League Baseball at the time McGwire played, so technically, he did nothing wrong. You can't punish someone for "breaking the rules" if in fact the rule never existed at the time the "crime" occured. I'm not saying he did anything, because I personally don't know, but one thing I do know is that I would've given Mark McGwire his fair shot at the Hall.

Very Good Post.

However Big Mac was accused by Jose' of being shot up with steroids which may have not been banned by baseball but were illegal to have or take without a Dr.'s order in our country. I know the word accused is an important fact, for his defense. But the man convicted himself on National TV in the court of public opinion by saying Im not here to talk about the past, time after time.

If he would have said yes I took them, or I used legal suppliments do you really think we have this thread today. Instead he said nothing, whomever his advisor was that told him to say nothing failed the man.

The man was a hero and had the opportunity to make a bold statement and that is why he isn't in the HOF.

Had I a vote he would be in, but so would Pete, and Shoeless Joe.

When Sammy comes up on the ballot I have a feeling we will see clips of him sitting before congress with his spokeman then clips of him speaking near perfect english.

As much as it pains me Jose Canseco was the only truthful person who testified that day. Schilling said he didn't think there was a problem, Raffy with the finger pointing reminded me of Bill Clinton, Sammy saying "no comprende", and Big Mac saying lets talk about the future.


Until the man makes a statement it will be difficult for him to enter the Hall and if it get to the vets dont look for him to ever get in.

I don't beleive in them I say who cares if it makes the game more exciting it encourages others to do it just to keep up and theres enough bad things to be exsposed to these days so no i don't like the idea of giving him anything you can get strong by liftin its just harder! maybe using whey i can see but not Anabolic stuff!!!

Big Mac is the man he should def. be in!!

to be in the hall of fame you need all around good stats all he had was hitting. he could hit a ball but thats about it.

I think he Deserves to Be in the Hall of Fame

Anyone who uses steroids to get an advantage over the competition doesnt deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. If Bonds breaks the Home Run record, it will be a travesty in baseball.