Number of Counties, Class by Class.
1A: 27 Counties.
2A: 30 Counties.
3A: 36 Counties.
4A: 32 Counties.
5A: 25 Counties.
6A: 15 Counties.
2A looks empty in the east. :pondering:
No surprise..... Jefferson is the only County with a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 A school.
The only County with a team that I didn't put on any Class map is McCreary Central.
The KHSAA website shows they are not eligible for district play, therefore they are not classed.
Thanks for posting this, it is actually pretty interesting I think. Of course I love maps of any sort.
I am sure it took quite a bit of time, and I appreciate your efforts :Thumbs:
By chance, did you figure which counties have NO football at all? It would be interesting to see that on a map if you have it. I know there are a few out here in the far west. (Carlisle, Hickman, Livingston. Lyon)
What this really shows is 6 classes are too many. Needs to go back to 4.
Bigblue78 Wrote:By chance, did you figure which counties have NO football at all? It would be interesting to see that on a map if you have it. I know there are a few out here in the far west. (Carlisle, Hickman, Livingston. Lyon)
That is next on my list.
Bigblue78 Wrote:By chance, did you figure which counties have NO football at all? It would be interesting to see that on a map if you have it. I know there are a few out here in the far west. (Carlisle, Hickman, Livingston. Lyon)
Off the top of my head, Elliott Co. and Menifee Co. have no football programs.
There are several counties in Eastern Kentucky who currently don't have a football program. The counties that come to mind are; Wolfe, Lee, Owsley, Menifee, and Elliott. All of these schools, of course would be 1A and statistically they are some of the poorest counties in the state. It takes a lot of money to start a football program, and you need the backing of the community. If I'm not mistaken, Jackson County was the last county to start a football program in Eastern Kentucky. Eventually, I would like to see all of these counties start a football program, but with a declining population, and no jobs being created in these communities, I don't see that happening.
Cool thread pulp. I love these kinds of threads.
I think you'll see the number of classes drop between small schools consolidating and dropping football, especially in the far west and east. 5 classes I could see being more like it.
Cat Daddy Wrote:There are several counties in Eastern Kentucky who currently don't have a football program. The counties that come to mind are; Wolfe, Lee, Owsley, Menifee, and Elliott. All of these schools, of course would be 1A and statistically they are some of the poorest counties in the state. It takes a lot of money to start a football program, and you need the backing of the community. If I'm not mistaken, Jackson County was the last county to start a football program in Eastern Kentucky. Eventually, I would like to see all of these counties start a football program, but with a declining population, and no jobs being created in these communities, I don't see that happening.
I don't see that happening either unless there is a change and some industry comes in to these areas. Could happen in a few, but depending on politics which you can't depend on, probably not!
IMO, 5 classes would make a better overall brand of KY HS football.
But the argument is... Every team (that is eligible) gets at least 1 post-season contest, no matter their record in every other sport but football.
I've figured up the 0-XX & 1-XX teams in boys & girls basketball for the past few seasons.
And there are teams that are winless or only have one win in district tournament play.
In the "Everybody gets a trophy" world, it's only fair that as many teams as possible get at least one post-season football game as well.
1A: 33 teams are active. One (1) team will miss the playoffs.
2A: 37 teams are active. Five (5) teams will miss the playoffs.
3A: 40 teams are active. Eight (8) teams will miss the playoffs.
4A: 40 teams are active. Eight (8) teams will miss the playoffs.
5A: 38 teams are active. Six (6) teams will miss the playoffs.
6A: 32 teams are active. All teams make the playoffs.
By my math, 220 teams play football.
A total of 27 teams from all six classes will miss the football playoffs.
193 teams will get at least one playoff game.
Very nice Pulp!
I am actually surprised there are not more counties with no football just based on how many are in my immediate area.
Basically just a cluster in the far west and a cluster in the mid east.
All of these counties have a total population of less than 10,000, and most of them are under 8,000:
Hickman 4745
Carlisle 5001
Livingston 9359
Lyon 8451
Cumberland 6789
Owsley 4654
Lee 2260
Wolfe 7284
Menifee 6288
Elliott 7637
Roberson 2235
Of the counties in my area (Hickman, Carlisle, Livingston and Lyon) it is not a matter of them having a team at some point and giving it up, I don't think any of them ever played football. (possibly Hickman, but I doubt it).
Anyway, thanks again Pulp for an interesting thread
Diogenes Wrote:I think you'll see the number of classes drop between small schools consolidating and dropping football, especially in the far west and east. 5 classes I could see being more like it.
IMHO 5 classes is EXACTLY what this state should be. That would be dead on as far as classes should go.
If the population in EKY keeps on dramatically decreasing, we may even have to go back to 4.
What im curious of is how many schools in the next 10-15 years don't close there schools but do drop there football programs. There are several schools in EKY that can barely get the numbers to play the game.
Pulp Fiction Wrote:1A: 33 teams are active. One (1) team will miss the playoffs.
2A: 37 teams are active. Five (5) teams will miss the playoffs.
3A: 40 teams are active. Eight (8) teams will miss the playoffs.
4A: 40 teams are active. Eight (8) teams will miss the playoffs.
5A: 38 teams are active. Six (6) teams will miss the playoffs.
6A: 32 teams are active. All teams make the playoffs.
By my math, 220 teams play football.
A total of 27 teams from all six classes will miss the football playoffs.
193 teams will get at least one playoff game.
Here is my proposal that ive been talking about for quite some time. IMHO, it would make football in this state so much more enjoyable.
Drop it down to five classes.
Keep the playoffs exactly like they are with 5 rounds. 1 seed plays the 4 seed from the opposite district in the same region.
Make 1A and 5A 40 teams a piece and 2A threw 4A 48 teams a piece. This would give you eight 5 teams district in 1A and 5A and then you would have eight 6 team districts in 2A threw 4A. Every district in 1A and 5A would have one team miss the playoffs. Every district in 2A threw 4A would have two teams miss the playoffs.
Play according to your numbers only. No playing up and no playing down.
If geography is not your friend, too bad, suck it up. You will be stuck in the district with teams closest to you going from west to east. If you are the furthest team east in a cluster teams and you are the 7th team you will be moved into the next district over even if its further away than what you have.
I could use some help though. Im missing three teams somewhere. Ive left class 1A short 3 teams and will adjust if anyone can figure out what the two teams are. Let me know if you figure it out and I will edit this post to fix the teams per class. When we find the two im leaving off, it may affect the first or last team in each class, but overall, this is what I came up with and I think it would be perfect.
1A (40 teams. Eight districts. 5 teams per district)
Fulton City 99
Fulton County 157
Pineville 161
Eminence 165
Jenkins 191
Caverna 194
Dayton 202
Frankfort 206
Paris 206
Phelps 213
Bellevue 216
Paintsville 218
Harlan 219
Williamsburg 229
Holy Cross (Louisville)262
Ludlow 265
South Floyd 277
Campbellsville 284
Kentucky Country Day 287
Russellville 290
Bethlehem 301
Lynn Camp 312
Fairview 314
Hazard 316
Nicholas County 326
Raceland 326
Bishop Brossart 332
Berea 344
Wolfe County 345
Bracken County 348
Newport Central Catholic 353
Crittenden County 366
Pikeville 368
Fort Knox 381
Betsy Layne 388
Beechwood 401
Allen Central 403
2A (48 teams. Eight districts. 6 teams per district)
Holy Cross (Covington) 406
Middlesboro 406
Ballard Memorial 410
Trimble County 410
Newport 424
Mayfield 428
Metcalfe County 435
Murray 440
Lexington Christian 442
Owensboro Catholic458
McLean County 460
Hancock County 475
Gallatin County 477
Clinton County 480
Green County 483
Leslie County 484
Shawnee 493
Walton-Verona 496
Danville 500
Somerset 509
Lloyd Memorial 515
Carroll County 518
Owen County 518
Washington County 531
Todd Central 542
Glasgow 544
East Ridge 545
Prestonsburg 545
Monroe County 562
Shelby Valley 563
Sheldon Clark 570
Edmonson County 579
West Carter 586
Morgan County 595
Bath County 600
Jackson County 600
Breathitt County 607
Magoffin County 610
Knott Central 613
Lawrence County 614
DeSales 618
Russell 619
Butler County 620
Webster County 623
Caldwell County 628
Trigg County 631
Bardstown 644
Belfry 647
3A (48 teams. Eight districts. 6 teams per district)
Henry County 649
Union County 665
Fleming County 669
Casey County 673
Christian Academy-Louisville 675
Pike Central 680
Estill County 699
Lewis County 699
Fort Campbell 703
Garrard County 713
Powell County 718
LaRue County 734
Thomas Nelson 733
Adair County 746
Pendleton County 749
Waggener 755
Hart County 757
Western 760
Elizabethtown 762
Spencer County 792
Bell County 796
Rockcastle County 797
Western Hills 808
Lexington Catholic 810
Paducah Tilghman 814
Allen County-Scottsville 819
East Carter 821
Boyle County 823
Mason County 833
Franklin-Simpson 849
Corbin 851
Taylor County 851
Greenup County 852
Boyd County 856
Holmes 859
Nelson County 860
Russell County 860
Mercer County 861
Knox Central 864
Bourbon County 866
Clay County 873
Perry Central 880
Breckinridge County 883
Hopkins Central 884
Ashland Blazer 886
Harrison County 903
Franklin County 913
Rowan County 915
4A (48 teams. Eight districts. 6 teams per district)
Calloway County 921
Warren East 929
Marion County 935
Highlands 940
Letcher Central 941
Scott 946
Moore 949
Wayne County 950
Shelby County 974
Warren Central 975
John Hardin 976
Collins 978
Doss 1,023
North Oldham 1,029
Lincoln County 1,055
Hopkinsville 1,078
Ohio County 1,082
Iroquois 1,085
Pulaski County 1,087
East Jessamine 1,088
Fairdale 1,088
Johnson Central 1,096
Madisonville-North Hopkins 1,101
South Warren 1,104
Logan County 1,106
Valley 1,108
Harlan County 1,116
Central 1,117
Whitley County 1,117
Greenwood 1,120
Grant County 1,128
West Jessamine 1,129
Southern 1,130
Owensboro 1,140
Covington Catholic 1,146
Cooper 1,157
Madison Southern 1,169
Anderson County 1,170
North Bullitt 1,185
South Oldham 1,219
Southwestern 1,220
Bowling Green 1,221
Woodford County 1,225
South Laurel 1,240
Grayson County 1,243
Bullitt Central 1,245
Christian County 1,257
Atherton 1,266
5A (40 teams. Eight districts. 5 teams per district)
Conner 1,289
Barren County 1,304
Montgomery County 1,326
Marshall County 1,332
Boone County 1,341
North Laurel 1,374
Apollo 1,377
Bullitt East 1,412
Graves County 1,422
Jeffersontown 1,425
Dixie Heights 1,429
Fern Creek 1,439
North Hardin 1,461
Seneca 1,495
Oldham County 1,521
Muhlenberg County 1,527
Campbell County 1,535
Meade County 1,611
George Rogers Clark 1,644
Daviess County 1,647
Butler 1,688
Simon Kenton 1,702
Ryle 1,715
Male 1,753
Madison Central 1,792
Bryan Station 1,793
Tates Creek 1,825
Pleasure Ridge Park 1,837
Central Hardin 1,858
McCracken County 1,871
DuPont Manual 1,875
Henderson County 1,925
Ballard 1,984
Lafayette 1,997
Eastern 2,040
Paul Laurence Dunbar 2,223
Henry Clay 2,329
Scott County 2,403
Trinity (Louisville) 2,538
St. Xavier 2,694
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Here is my proposal that ive been talking about for quite some time. IMHO, it would make football in this state so much more enjoyable.
Drop it down to five classes.
Keep the playoffs exactly like they are with 5 rounds. 1 seed plays the 4 seed from the opposite district in the same region.
Make 1A and 5A 40 teams a piece and 2A threw 4A 48 teams a piece. This would give you eight 5 teams district in 1A and 5A and then you would have eight 6 team districts in 2A threw 4A. Every district in 1A and 5A would have one team miss the playoffs. Every district in 2A threw 4A would have two teams miss the playoffs.
Play according to your numbers only. No playing up and no playing down.
If geography is not your friend, too bad, suck it up. You will be stuck in the district with teams closest to you going from west to east. If you are the furthest team east in a cluster teams and you are the 7th team you will be moved into the next district over even if its further away than what you have.
I could use some help though. Im missing three teams somewhere. Ive left class 1A short 3 teams and will adjust if anyone can figure out what the two teams are. Let me know if you figure it out and I will edit this post to fix the teams per class. When we find the two im leaving off, it may affect the first or last team in each class, but overall, this is what I came up with and I think it would be perfect.
1A (40 teams. Eight districts. 5 teams per district)
Fulton City 99
Fulton County 157
Pineville 161
Eminence 165
Jenkins 191
Caverna 194
Dayton 202
Frankfort 206
Paris 206
Phelps 213
Bellevue 216
Paintsville 218
Harlan 219
Williamsburg 229
Holy Cross (Louisville)262
Ludlow 265
South Floyd 277
Campbellsville 284
Kentucky Country Day 287
Russellville 290
Bethlehem 301
Lynn Camp 312
Fairview 314
Hazard 316
Nicholas County 326
Raceland 326
Bishop Brossart 332
Berea 344
Wolfe County 345
Bracken County 348
Newport Central Catholic 353
Crittenden County 366
Pikeville 368
Fort Knox 381
Betsy Layne 388
Beechwood 401
Allen Central 403
2A (48 teams. Eight districts. 6 teams per district)
Holy Cross (Covington) 406
Middlesboro 406
Ballard Memorial 410
Trimble County 410
Newport 424
Mayfield 428
Metcalfe County 435
Murray 440
Lexington Christian 442
Owensboro Catholic458
McLean County 460
Hancock County 475
Gallatin County 477
Clinton County 480
Green County 483
Leslie County 484
Shawnee 493
Walton-Verona 496
Danville 500
Somerset 509
Lloyd Memorial 515
Carroll County 518
Owen County 518
Washington County 531
Todd Central 542
Glasgow 544
East Ridge 545
Prestonsburg 545
Monroe County 562
Shelby Valley 563
Sheldon Clark 570
Edmonson County 579
West Carter 586
Morgan County 595
Bath County 600
Jackson County 600
Breathitt County 607
Magoffin County 610
Knott Central 613
Lawrence County 614
DeSales 618
Russell 619
Butler County 620
Webster County 623
Caldwell County 628
Trigg County 631
Bardstown 644
Belfry 647
3A (48 teams. Eight districts. 6 teams per district)
Henry County 649
Union County 665
Fleming County 669
Casey County 673
Christian Academy-Louisville 675
Pike Central 680
Estill County 699
Lewis County 699
Fort Campbell 703
Garrard County 713
Powell County 718
LaRue County 734
Thomas Nelson 733
Adair County 746
Pendleton County 749
Waggener 755
Hart County 757
Western 760
Elizabethtown 762
Spencer County 792
Bell County 796
Rockcastle County 797
Western Hills 808
Lexington Catholic 810
Paducah Tilghman 814
Allen County-Scottsville 819
East Carter 821
Boyle County 823
Mason County 833
Franklin-Simpson 849
Corbin 851
Taylor County 851
Greenup County 852
Boyd County 856
Holmes 859
Nelson County 860
Russell County 860
Mercer County 861
Knox Central 864
Bourbon County 866
Clay County 873
Perry Central 880
Breckinridge County 883
Hopkins Central 884
Ashland Blazer 886
Harrison County 903
Franklin County 913
Rowan County 915
4A (48 teams. Eight districts. 6 teams per district)
Calloway County 921
Warren East 929
Marion County 935
Highlands 940
Letcher Central 941
Scott 946
Moore 949
Wayne County 950
Shelby County 974
Warren Central 975
John Hardin 976
Collins 978
Doss 1,023
North Oldham 1,029
Lincoln County 1,055
Hopkinsville 1,078
Ohio County 1,082
Iroquois 1,085
Pulaski County 1,087
East Jessamine 1,088
Fairdale 1,088
Johnson Central 1,096
Madisonville-North Hopkins 1,101
South Warren 1,104
Logan County 1,106
Valley 1,108
Harlan County 1,116
Central 1,117
Whitley County 1,117
Greenwood 1,120
Grant County 1,128
West Jessamine 1,129
Southern 1,130
Owensboro 1,140
Covington Catholic 1,146
Cooper 1,157
Madison Southern 1,169
Anderson County 1,170
North Bullitt 1,185
South Oldham 1,219
Southwestern 1,220
Bowling Green 1,221
Woodford County 1,225
South Laurel 1,240
Grayson County 1,243
Bullitt Central 1,245
Christian County 1,257
Atherton 1,266
5A (40 teams. Eight districts. 5 teams per district)
Conner 1,289
Barren County 1,304
Montgomery County 1,326
Marshall County 1,332
Boone County 1,341
North Laurel 1,374
Apollo 1,377
Bullitt East 1,412
Graves County 1,422
Jeffersontown 1,425
Dixie Heights 1,429
Fern Creek 1,439
North Hardin 1,461
Seneca 1,495
Oldham County 1,521
Muhlenberg County 1,527
Campbell County 1,535
Meade County 1,611
George Rogers Clark 1,644
Daviess County 1,647
Butler 1,688
Simon Kenton 1,702
Ryle 1,715
Male 1,753
Madison Central 1,792
Bryan Station 1,793
Tates Creek 1,825
Pleasure Ridge Park 1,837
Central Hardin 1,858
McCracken County 1,871
DuPont Manual 1,875
Henderson County 1,925
Ballard 1,984
Lafayette 1,997
Eastern 2,040
Paul Laurence Dunbar 2,223
Henry Clay 2,329
Scott County 2,403
Trinity (Louisville) 2,538
St. Xavier 2,694
Oh wow I love this
[quote=RunItUpTheGut] Here is my proposal that ive been talking about for quite some time. IMHO, it would make football in this state so much more enjoyable.
Drop it down to five classes.
Keep the playoffs exactly like they are with 5 rounds. 1 seed plays the 4 seed from the opposite district in the same region.
Make 1A and 5A 40 teams a piece and 2A threw 4A 48 teams a piece. This would give you eight 5 teams district in 1A and 5A and then you would have eight 6 team districts in 2A threw 4A. Every district in 1A and 5A would have one team miss the playoffs. Every district in 2A threw 4A would have two teams miss the playoffs.
Play according to your numbers only. No playing up and no playing down.
If geography is not your friend, too bad, suck it up. You will be stuck in the district with teams closest to you going from west to east. If you are the furthest team east in a cluster teams and you are the 7th team you will be moved into the next district over even if its further away than what you have.
I could use some help though. Im missing three teams somewhere. Ive left class 1A short 3 teams and will adjust if anyone can figure out what the two teams are. Let me know if you figure it out and I will edit this post to fix the teams per class. When we find the two im leaving off, it may affect the first or last team in each class, but overall, this is what I came up with and I think it would be perfect. [/QUOTE ]
*****************************************
So if I understand this correctly:
there will be twice as many teams in 2A, 3A or 4A who don't make the playoffs as in 1A or 5A?
Another way of putting it is in 1A and 5A four out of five teams go (80%) but in 2A thru 4A only 4 out of 6 (66%) get in. That seems a little uneven to me.
I have always believed the way to improve the playoffs is not to decrease the number of classes, it is to decrease the number of teams who make the playoffs. Only take the top 2 or maybe 3 teams in each district.
Would some decent teams miss the playoffs? Sure, but at least then the regular season would mean something.
Eleven counties without a football team
There are more counties that have multiple teams in multiple classes over counties with no teams.
(Off the top of my head & in NO particular order or geography.)
Jefferson, Hardin, Christian, Pike, Floyd, Johnson, Greenup, Boyd, Fayette, Madison, Bell & Madison.
I know there are a lot more, but that is a list of twelve counties that have more than one football team in more than one class.
And FYI, every county without a football team borders at least one county that has a team. I know it's not the same feeling having YOUR team out on the field and under the lights, but if you are a fan of football.... there is no reason why you can't drive a few miles on a Friday night and watch some HSFB.
Bigblue78 Wrote:RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Here is my proposal that ive been talking about for quite some time. IMHO, it would make football in this state so much more enjoyable.
Drop it down to five classes.
Keep the playoffs exactly like they are with 5 rounds. 1 seed plays the 4 seed from the opposite district in the same region.
Make 1A and 5A 40 teams a piece and 2A threw 4A 48 teams a piece. This would give you eight 5 teams district in 1A and 5A and then you would have eight 6 team districts in 2A threw 4A. Every district in 1A and 5A would have one team miss the playoffs. Every district in 2A threw 4A would have two teams miss the playoffs.
Play according to your numbers only. No playing up and no playing down.
If geography is not your friend, too bad, suck it up. You will be stuck in the district with teams closest to you going from west to east. If you are the furthest team east in a cluster teams and you are the 7th team you will be moved into the next district over even if its further away than what you have.
I could use some help though. Im missing three teams somewhere. Ive left class 1A short 3 teams and will adjust if anyone can figure out what the two teams are. Let me know if you figure it out and I will edit this post to fix the teams per class. When we find the two im leaving off, it may affect the first or last team in each class, but overall, this is what I came up with and I think it would be perfect.
*****************************************
So if I understand this correctly:
there will be twice as many teams in 2A, 3A or 4A who don't make the playoffs as in 1A or 5A?
Another way of putting it is in 1A and 5A four out of five teams go (80%) but in 2A thru 4A only 4 out of 6 (66%) get in. That seems a little uneven to me.
I have always believed the way to improve the playoffs is not to decrease the number of classes, it is to decrease the number of teams who make the playoffs. Only take the top 2 or maybe 3 teams in each district.
Would some decent teams miss the playoffs? Sure, but at least then the regular season would mean something.
What exactly do you think is happening now?
As it stands right now, 1A and 6A get all teams in the playoffs while 2A threw 5A do not.
And yes in my proposal not as many teams make it in 2A 3A and 4A as they do in 1A and 5A BUT every district in this state would have somebody left out. No more 4 team districts.
Also it is completely fine to keep 1A and 5A at 40 teams because it takes the smallest of the small and biggest if the big out of the questions while you pretty much have 3 classes in the state. You have to think about what is realistic in this state. Changing the current format we have will probably never happen. And I mean never meaning 99 percent chance it doesn't change from 6 classes ever again and the playoffs never change again. The schools vote on this, not the khsaa. If you don't like the way your school votes to keep the playoffs the same then people like you should talk to them about it. The way each school voted is public record and easy to find. I can tell you one thing. The playoffs and amount of teams that get in will never change. So you need to condense it like i did to make it somewhat interesting. Four classes was a joke and should never happen again but we should have never went to 6.
Belfry0304 Wrote:Oh wow I love this
I'd say Belfry would end up being a 3A team instead of the biggest 2A school if I could ever figure out who the three teams I left off are
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:I'd say Belfry would end up being a 3A team instead of the biggest 2A school if I could ever figure out who the three teams I left off are
Didn't see McCreary Central on the list. probably about a large 2A or small 3A
Pulp Fiction Wrote:The only County with a team that I didn't put on any Class map is McCreary Central.
The KHSAA website shows they are not eligible for district play, therefore they are not classed.
hollcat Wrote:Didn't see McCreary Central on the list. probably about a large 2A or small 3A
:welcome: :Thumbs:
Pulp Fiction Wrote::welcome: :Thumbs:
That makes some sense.
However I'm pretty sure the intent is to get back into district play after next season so they will most likely be included in the next alignment adjustment.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:What exactly do you think is happening now?
As it stands right now, 1A and 6A get all teams in the playoffs while 2A threw 5A do not.
And yes in my proposal not as many teams make it in 2A 3A and 4A as they do in 1A and 5A BUT every district in this state would have somebody left out. No more 4 team districts.
Also it is completely fine to keep 1A and 5A at 40 teams because it takes the smallest of the small and biggest if the big out of the questions while you pretty much have 3 classes in the state. You have to think about what is realistic in this state. Changing the current format we have will probably never happen. And I mean never meaning 99 percent chance it doesn't change from 6 classes ever again and the playoffs never change again. The schools vote on this, not the khsaa. If you don't like the way your school votes to keep the playoffs the same then people like you should talk to them about it. The way each school voted is public record and easy to find. I can tell you one thing. The playoffs and amount of teams that get in will never change. So you need to condense it like i did to make it somewhat interesting. Four classes was a joke and should never happen again but we should have never went to 6.
You are correct the same thing is happening now. I guess my thinking is why even change it unless the change is actually an improvement? Why is five classes preferable to four or six?
I actually don't have a huge problem with the current system and I agree it will most likely never change. My point was, if your main issue was too many unworthy teams are getting in, you don't need to revise the entire structure top to bottom, just limit the teams that get in from each district to 2 (or at most 3).