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Full Version: Bob Knight: Best Coach Ever?
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Personally, I think he is. I love the way this guy carries himself. He's old school and doesn't deal with BS. He makes the game simple and focuses on fundamentals. He is a true teacher of the game which is what I feel basketball is lacking these days. I know some of you are gonna say this guy is crazy and should be put in a mental institute or something but that's why I like him. He's an interesting character. I just wanted to get your thoughts. This should be interesting.
as much as i love Bobby Knight, Im gonna have to say no...I love his hard nosed, no BS, my way or the highway style..but the greatest coach in the history of the game is none other than Adolph Rupp..Rupp started coaching in a time when you only had 20 or 22 games scheduled, so give him 30 or more games in a season every year he coached, like the coaches near him and he'd have over 1000 wins. It killed me when Dean Smith (the most overrated coach of all time, HANDS DOWN) passed him, but Smith wasnt near the coach Rupp was. Knight's winning % has suffered quite a bit the past 10 years or so, but the problem with that is, the game has changed, the players have changed, but he has not. And the people running the institutions havent been able to force him to change. Give Rupp the number of games Knight has coached in, or give him Smith's talent,and we're talking an EASY 1000 game winner.
Fundamentally - Yes Character Wise - No
John Wooden & Adolph Rupp are two the best coach's in NCAA History, and behind them is Dean Smith, so i would put Bob Knight as fourth on the list of best coaches behind those guys.
Those are good posts! I agree with some of you but here's what I think. You're right, Knight hasn't changed just like Rupp never changed anything he did over the 51 years? he coached. Sure he was successful but also reluctant to change. He didn't recruit African American players until he was pretty much forced into it and couldn't deal with losing to Texas Western and probably still wouldn't if he was alive. John Wooden had some of the most talented players in the league during his championship run. Lew Alcindor and Bill Walton were two of the most dominate players in college basketball at that time and they covered 8 years under Wooden. I don't know I guess this would be a never ending argument.
HELL YES... I woulda give my left (you know) to have been able to go play for Bobby Knight.
Best? No....One of the best? Definately.
Bob Knight is a bully that gets his players to do what he wants through fear and intimidation...........But he gets the results and that is what matters in todays society.
Wooden is the greatest coach to ever coach with out a doubt, then i have to say Rupp, then Smith, and then Knight
John R. Wooden is by far the greatest to ever coach the game.
If you go stats the numbers don't lie.Bob Knight will be crowned the best!!!
cardsfan Wrote:If you go stats the numbers don't lie.Bob Knight will be crowned the best!!!

:1:
no way he is RUPP is baby
cardsfan Wrote:If you go stats the numbers don't lie.Bob Knight will be crowned the best!!!

Is Jaryd Crum goin to Texas Tech to play for him Smile ?
Def. a top 3 Coach! Rupp is the best! But I do love Bobby KNight! Wish he would come to U.K.! Talking about spicing up a Rivalry with Indiana again!
Redneck Wrote:Is Jaryd Crum goin to Texas Tech to play for him Smile ?
:thatsfunn Smile :thatsfunn
cardsfan Wrote:If you go stats the numbers don't lie.Bob Knight will be crowned the best!!!
Knight won alot of games, but not many titles. Wooden won the games that counted so that would give him the edge IMO.
TheBrahmaBull Wrote:Knight won alot of games, but not many titles. Wooden won the games that counted so that would give him the edge IMO.

Yepp, totally agree.
Joe B. Hall would have to perish first in order for that to ever happen, lol..but man that would be awesome, wouldnt it?? Bobby Knight at Kentucky..it just dont go together, lol..but the thought is entertaining
PLAYBOY5 Wrote:Def. a top 3 Coach! Rupp is the best! But I do love Bobby KNight! Wish he would come to U.K.! Talking about spicing up a Rivalry with Indiana again!
I remember reading something about Sam gilbert being the real man behind John Wooden so i did a little search.

I hope you all find this as interesting as I did.


http://www.sportspages.com/content/blog....461&more=1


01.31.03
Time to be Honest About Wooden's Legacy [ By: Brian Seel ]
[email]bseel@msn.com[/email] @ 11:27:41
As Bobby Knight approaches his 800th career win, I can’t help but look back at how we consistently demonize good people and yet exalt others as though thy are completely infallible. No, this isn’t a column defending Knight, while it shouldn’t be necessary that column will come later. This is a column about something that has bothered me for a long time. It is about a coach who is the most revered in his sport, even to this day. It is all based on a legacy that is less than pure. It is something that doesn’t get talked about often enough. Given the stature this coach has attained, I am not surprised. But one of the benefits of being a blogger and not a sportswriter, is I can write about things like this.

We are going to talk about the legacy of John Wooden. We all know the records, the accomplishments. He won 10 titles in 12 years, a feat that will never again be equaled. He coached players like Walton and Alcindor. His teams ran off incredible winning streaks. You know about the pyramid of success. You know about his coaching genius.

But this is the rest of the story. What never gets talked about is how all of that talent got assembled, and how UCLA may have been the only college team in history to have their own General Manager. Sam Gilbert was that man. Gilbert was a huge booster for UCLA back during Wooden’s time. He always had a great seat, and he had unprecedented access to a college basketball program.

Dwight Chapin and Jeff Prugh wrote extensively about Gilbert’s relationship in their 1973 book The Wizard of Westwood. Gilbert’s relationship with the program starts with Willie Naulls, an All-American center at UCLA in 1956. Gilbert formed a business relationship with Naulls after he left school. Naulls would be very helpful in keeping Walt Hazzard in school in the 1960s.

Gilbert also frequently entertained players at his place at Lake Arrowhead. Here he would listen to the problems of the players and no doubt offer what support he could. Gilbert liked to refer to himself as a ‘surrogate father’ of the players. The license plate on his car read, ‘Papa G’ and he was often referred to as ‘Papa Sam’. The guy was just being friendly right? He couldn’t possibly be one of those rich egomaniacs who enjoys the friendship of star collegiate athletes and doles out cash to earn those friendships?

Chapin and Prugh characterize Gilbert in the book as doing everything for his favored players, even picking up medical tabs for girlfriends’ abortions. Jerry Tarkanian has told the Los Angeles Times, ‘Everybody knows what went on during the Sam Gilbert era. The only team with a higher payroll was the Lakers. During the Sam Gilbert era, UCLA was in a different class. All those guys lived in beautiful apartments and drove beautiful cars’.

While one can’t help but chuckle at the irony of Tarkanian challenging Wooden’s ethics, it is certainly an interesting juxtaposition. One coach, deemed a rebel, an outlaw carrying on a three-decade fight with the NCAA. The other, held in the highest esteem by those in the media, the national championship award named after him, and revered by many in his profession.

Marques Johnson, a former UCLA All-American, has downplayed the relationship Gilbert had with the players. Wooden himself, in an interview with CBS SportsLine two years ago said, ‘I never had him talk with a recruit and I never sent a recruit to him. I just knew that he’s one who might do things to help kids, in some way, that could get us into trouble’.

By the sounds of it, Wooden wouldn’t have had to send any recruits to Gilbert. The other players would have let them know, or Gilbert might have found them first. Trainer Ducky Drake once had to ask Gilbert not to disturb napping players on the road.

When you read the story of Gilbert’s involvement, it starts to become very clear why Wooden went 16 seasons before his first national title, then magically reeled off 10 in 12 years. As Gilbert’s involvement grew in the late 50s and early 60s so did the talent level at UCLA. Wooden was always a good coach, Gilbert provided the edge to get him the talent he needed.

What bothers me about this story, even more than the thought that somebody could buy that much influence and access to a program, is Wooden’s reaction to the whole thing. In the course of his interview with CBS SportsLine, Wooden said this, “It (the criticism) doesn’t bother me, no, because I had no relationship with him (Gilbert) and I tried to make sure my players tried to be very, very careful’.

Had no relationship with him? That sounds more like sticking your head in the sand. It is believable up to the point where you find out this guy was visiting players’ rooms on road trips. Wooden went on to say, ‘It does not bother me. If I had any guilt, I suppose it would bother me. But I feel no guilt at all. I did what I could’.

Wooden did what he could, he ignored something that was obviously wrong because he was benefiting from it enormously. The players were taken care of in ways that were clearly violations of NCAA rules. If these are the stories that come out, you can only imagine how bad what really went on was. It clearly influenced recruits to attend UCLA. With all of the advantages they already have (being in Bel Air, being in LA, near the beach, etc.) the fact that a recruit could be taken care of for four years would put them over the top. And it did, 10 times in 12 years. But they are tainted championships, every last one.

Lest some of you still think this was all innocent. Larry Brown paid the price for Wooden’s ambivalence toward Gilbert. The NCAA investigated after Wooden’s tenure, and put UCLA on probation in 1981 for two years. They also ordered the program to sever ties with Gilbert. No wrongdoing, yet they were punished, confused?

The answer is simple. The NCAA only really started to gain any kind of enforcement authority in the 1970s. By that point it was too late, the myth of Wooden and UCLA had grown. Much like the situation with Chris Webber now, the NCAA probably didn’t want to know. Having a power team in the nation’s second largest TV market did wonders for the game. Had the NCAA investigated UCLA during Wooden’s tenure, they would have been forced to vacate 10 national titles in 12 years. A scandal of that proportion, at that time, might have crippled the sport.

Wooden has chosen to live off of his squeaky clean image as a great coach and teacher. He has casually ignored how his program acquired, retained, and kept very happy the talent that allowed the world to see his coaching genius. I can never hear about UCLA’s titles or see an interview with Wooden without thinking of Sam Gilbert. The man won 10 titles by cheating, and to see him held up as the ideal for all coaches to aspire to, is one of the great injustices of this world. But at least now, those of you who read this know….the rest of the story.
WOW!! Thanks for the research Doc! That was great and interesting. I had heard stories about boosters but never any this specific.
Nice post Doc!
It seems that most if not all "great" coaches have some skeletons in their closet, the things that give them the "edge" over others. I said it before, Knight is a bully and coaches by fear, but that kind of pressure works for him, it may not be popular, but it works.
Redneck Wrote:Is Jaryd Crum goin to Texas Tech to play for him Smile ?

???????
Rupp
braves_fan_10 Wrote:John Wooden & Adolph Rupp are two the best coach's in NCAA History, and behind them is Dean Smith, so i would put Bob Knight as fourth on the list of best coaches behind those guys.

Took the words right out of my mouth.
Old School Wrote:???????

cardsfan thinks Crum is so great, I was just wonderin if he was intersted in playin for Knight.
If not for a fluke play Dean Smith would have won how many championships?You cant rate who is the best.You can only say who YOU think is the best.Knight is one of the best.
Did you all know that Rupp got his idea of the fastbreak style from Cam Henderson at Marshall but at the same time Rupp learned from Naismith the guy who invented the game.
TheBrahmaBull Wrote:Bob Knight is a bully that gets his players to do what he wants through fear and intimidation...........But he gets the results and that is what matters in todays society.
Wouldnt work with alot of these babyfied mommy,s boys now a days would it.:redboxer: