Bluegrassrivals

North wins the 13th in a slugfest.

I need to watched more girls softball for sure. Congratulations North Laurel 13th Region Champion. :1:

What has happened to the pitching in Laurel Co softball? Is it just because these two are such rivals that they score so much? Maybe better pitching coming up in the younger ranks? Maybe someone closer to the programs can explain. I can remember the time when scoring 3 runs against North was a great accomplishment and South pitching was about as good.

Leonards_loser Wrote:What has happened to the pitching in Laurel Co softball? Is it just because these two are such rivals that they score so much? Maybe better pitching coming up in the younger ranks? Maybe someone closer to the programs can explain. I can remember the time when scoring 3 runs against North was a great accomplishment and South pitching was about as good.

Im not sure its the lack of quality pitching as much as it is the coaches putting a lot more emphasis on hitting than they use too.
Also, during that stretch where it was a "great accomplishment" to score three runs on North, they had a run of some of the best pitchers to ever play in this state. Think of the names that have been on the mound for North.
Then, it seemed like all of a sudden you had girls like Gaines at South that hit .600 nobody who was pitching.

Theres a simple difference in North/South and the rest of the region.
The girls in Laurel County start out at a much younger age and are playing on travel teams when theyre 8 years old. Most girls in this region cant even start playing until middle school at the earliest, mixed with the fact that most of them are really small schools.

If the rest of the region wants to catch up with Laurel County, they better get to playing at a younger age and playing on travel teams all summer.

When they moved the pitching distance back from 40 feet to the college distance of 43 feet five or six years ago, that helped the offenses some too. But you're right, there hasn't been a pitcher like Abner or Sears at either school lately. Some good pitchers, but nothing like that.

You're right too about the reasons that the Laurels are ahead of the other schools, was that way when they were in the 12th region as well, even though there were more schools there a little more comparable in size. This is 15 region titles for North, South has six. They have won the region every year (either 12th or 13th) that there has been fast pitch, and I believe they have both advanced to the regional finals all but four or five of those times, and a couple of those have come since they were switched to the 13th and into different districts, then wound up on the same side of the draw. Just total dominance.

In the early years of fastpitch, if you had a pitcher that threw hard and could throw strikes, you would dominate all but a handful of teams. Hitters have caught up with the pitchers. As for the Laurels, all the points that have been made are true. More emphasis on travel ball, good starts at an early age, and the numbers game. There's one ingredient that hasn't been mentioned. Good old hard work! The offseason doesn't exist, except dead period. Open field, winter conditioning and many,many other things have contributed to their success. And don't forget good coaching. Yes, they Laurels are big schools and have many built in advantages, but you don't dominate like they have without coaching and hard work.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Theres a simple difference in North/South and the rest of the region.
The girls in Laurel County start out at a much younger age and are playing on travel teams when theyre 8 years old. Most girls in this region cant even start playing until middle school at the earliest, mixed with the fact that most of them are really small schools.

If the rest of the region wants to catch up with Laurel County, they better get to playing at a younger age and playing on travel teams all summer.

Well flip flop, seems like your excuse should be because Laurel has more kids. that always seems to be your excuse for either school not doing good in boy sports, it applies the same to girls too.
Once again you prove you know nothing.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Im not sure its the lack of quality pitching as much as it is the coaches putting a lot more emphasis on hitting than they use too.
Also, during that stretch where it was a "great accomplishment" to score three runs on North, they had a run of some of the best pitchers to ever play in this state. Think of the names that have been on the mound for North.
Then, it seemed like all of a sudden you had girls like Gaines at South that hit .600 nobody who was pitching.

Theres a simple difference in North/South and the rest of the region.
The girls in Laurel County start out at a much younger age and are playing on travel teams when theyre 8 years old. Most girls in this region cant even start playing until middle school at the earliest, mixed with the fact that most of them are really small schools.

If the rest of the region wants to catch up with Laurel County, they better get to playing at a younger age and playing on travel teams all summer.

exactly right. starting early is where its at.

former Wrote:Well flip flop, seems like your excuse should be because Laurel has more kids. that always seems to be your excuse for either school not doing good in boy sports, it applies the same to girls too.
Once again you prove you know nothing.

what's your excuse? you snort too much kool-aid? :yikes:

pjdoug Wrote:what's your excuse? you snort too much kool-aid? :yikes:

no excuse, you play with what you got and if you dont have it then you dont have it.

if you got it then good

but dont think more means better, some places more means more lazy and sorry kids who dont do anything

former Wrote:no excuse, you play with what you got and if you dont have it then you dont have it.

if you got it then good

but dont think more means better, some places more means more lazy and sorry kids who dont do anything

Bull Butter. More numbers and more practice obviously equals more talent and success. Its common sense but common sense ain't so common.

former Wrote:Well flip flop, seems like your excuse should be because Laurel has more kids. that always seems to be your excuse for either school not doing good in boy sports, it applies the same to girls too.
Once again you prove you know nothing.

Quit flirting with me and get back to North.

Van Hagar Wrote:You're right too about the reasons that the Laurels are ahead of the other schools, was that way when they were in the 12th region as well, even though there were more schools there a little more comparable in size. This is 15 region titles for North, South has six. They have won the region every year (either 12th or 13th) that there has been fast pitch, and I believe they have both advanced to the regional finals all but four or five of those times, and a couple of those have come since they were switched to the 13th and into different districts, then wound up on the same side of the draw. Just total dominance.

Its more than just dominance, its on another level. I don't see it changing any time soon either. Now if Laurel County could figure out football, they might be on to something...

walterwhite Wrote:In the early years of fastpitch, if you had a pitcher that threw hard and could throw strikes, you would dominate all but a handful of teams. Hitters have caught up with the pitchers. As for the Laurels, all the points that have been made are true. More emphasis on travel ball, good starts at an early age, and the numbers game. There's one ingredient that hasn't been mentioned. Good old hard work! The offseason doesn't exist, except dead period. Open field, winter conditioning and many,many other things have contributed to their success. And don't forget good coaching. Yes, they Laurels are big schools and have many built in advantages, but you don't dominate like they have without coaching and hard work.

Good point on the first comment. When softball first picked up steam, especially in this area, it was all about having that dominate pitcher. Its really all it took until players and coaches started to evolve.

As for the second comment, I think its safe to say there are many other teams in this region that work just as hard. Its the system at North and South that have allowed them to be successful. I haven't hardly posted on the softball forum as there hardly any discussion going on, but ive been a fan of softball since the early 00's and have watched a lot of teams over the years and hundreds of games but as I stated before, other schools players just do not have the option to play summer ball, and as you know, for whatever reason, high school coaches cant be involved in summer play. While weve got basketball coaches taking players to 50 camps every summer, baseball and softball coaches hands are tied and they cant do anything about it. Difference with Laurel County is they have plenty of coaches devoted to summer ball and travel teams. Most of the other schools only person who would do it would be the coach, and they cant.


Look, I agree its amazing what North and South have accomplished in softball, and even baseball for that matter. Im not taking away from that success. But to dismiss other teams struggles to compete with them simply because of good coaching and hard work is just not true. And the fact remains, Its easier to find girls to play summer ball and to find more talent when your picking from 1500 girls instead of 150. Im a big school guy too. I don't root or know anything about one single small school, but to act like it should be expected that a team like Barbourville, Pineville, Williamsburg, and Lynn Camp to compete with North and South on a yearly basis just isn't reasonable. Schools like that could have the best coach in the state and work there tails off harder than anyone and it wouldn't matter when North and South still run rule them.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Good point on the first comment. When softball first picked up steam, especially in this area, it was all about having that dominate pitcher. Its really all it took until players and coaches started to evolve.

As for the second comment, I think its safe to say there are many other teams in this region that work just as hard. Its the system at North and South that have allowed them to be successful. I haven't hardly posted on the softball forum as there hardly any discussion going on, but ive been a fan of softball since the early 00's and have watched a lot of teams over the years and hundreds of games but as I stated before, other schools players just do not have the option to play summer ball, and as you know, for whatever reason, high school coaches cant be involved in summer play. While weve got basketball coaches taking players to 50 camps every summer, baseball and softball coaches hands are tied and they cant do anything about it. Difference with Laurel County is they have plenty of coaches devoted to summer ball and travel teams. Most of the other schools only person who would do it would be the coach, and they cant.


Look, I agree its amazing what North and South have accomplished in softball, and even baseball for that matter. Im not taking away from that success. But to dismiss other teams struggles to compete with them simply because of good coaching and hard work is just not true. And the fact remains, Its easier to find girls to play summer ball and to find more talent when your picking from 1500 girls instead of 150. Im a big school guy too. I don't root or know anything about one single small school, but to act like it should be expected that a team like Barbourville, Pineville, Williamsburg, and Lynn Camp to compete with North and South on a yearly basis just isn't reasonable. Schools like that could have the best coach in the state and work there tails off harder than anyone and it wouldn't matter when North and South still run rule them.

I didn't say anything about schools not working as hard or, for that matter, harder, than the Laurels. All I said is the Laurel's success is not all numbers and advantages. They work hard. Period. There's been years where girls have got up at 6 a.m. 3 days a week for conditioning. If these two schools approached the game differently, the results would be much different. If I'm coaching against these two, I take a long look at trying to do things more like they do. You ain't going to change things picking up a ball and bat on February 15th.

I think most of the advantage at this point is 90 percent of all the girls at both schools just play softball. They dont play anything else. That helps alot. Some other schools may be the same way but I doubt it

ky playmaker Wrote:I think most of the advantage at this point is 90 percent of all the girls at both schools just play softball. They dont play anything else. That helps alot. Some other schools may be the same way but I doubt it

Agreed. It's a big advantage to have kids year round. Kids do that when you win at a high level. For the record, if Mahan stays at Corbin I think he will elevate that program to a very competitive level. Clay County has the chance to be there, too. They've got a good nucleus of upperclass girls and some really good young kids coming. I also think it would benefit the other teams to strengthen their schedules. I'm not saying play the powerhouse programs in the state week in and week out, but venture more to the central and western parts of the state where softball is stronger overall. The gap is much smaller than it has been, but there's still a gap between the Laurel's and the rest of the region.

The bottom line is we are comparing the rest of the 13th region to the state's winningest program, North, and the state's 6th winningest program, South. At the present, it's apples and oranges. We can debate the who, what, when, where and whys all day but in the end it is exactly what the numbers say.

walterwhite Wrote:I didn't say anything about schools not working as hard or, for that matter, harder, than the Laurels. All I said is the Laurel's success is not all numbers and advantages. They work hard. Period. There's been years where girls have got up at 6 a.m. 3 days a week for conditioning. If these two schools approached the game differently, the results would be much different. If I'm coaching against these two, I take a long look at trying to do things more like they do. You ain't going to change things picking up a ball and bat on February 15th.

LOL, that's my exact point. Most schools in this region cant do that. They have a limited number of athletes to choose from, and nobody that knows what theyre doing in a lot of the areas to coach summer ball since the school coaches cant.

I still cant understand why the KHSAA cannot allow coaches to coach summer ball. I don't see how its any different than basketball being allowed to play all summer. That is one thing that could greatly increase the parity.

To see the difference as a fan of one of the Laurel County schools is going to be hard to do. To see it as a difference being one of the smaller schools is hard to do. Im just a neutral observer of the game. No ties to a program and not family playing or coaching anywhere. As I see it now, those schools, along with the larger schools have a much greater advantage in a game where skill and tuned in coordination is 99% of the game. Its pretty much like all of London gets an extra 3 months of softball every year while a girl going to Harlan would have to travel 100 miles to make a practice for a summer team, if she would even be lucky enough to make the team, and its not going to help the fact that her other 10 teammates at Harlan cannot do it with her.

Read By-Law 24. Coaches can't coach during dead period. Otherwise, coaches are free to do whatever. It's a bad situation because dead period falls right during prime softball time. It makes it difficult for coaches,but not impossible. I do understand what you say about numbers, etc, but I've never been a big fan of excuses. Small schools do have a hard time and I fully get it, but knowing the time and effort put in by schools that are successful (regardless of size), saying they are successful is primarily due to their size is a slap in the face. If it was all about enrollment both would be better in other sports. Softball is their focus.

As far as the "system" making them successful, I agree. But how do you think the system got into place? Rabbit outta the hat, magic 8 ball, smoke and mirrors? No, the system became established because of hard work, dedication, effort, and in all fairness, making full use of all the advantages they have had. As far as travel ball, lots of girls travel to K.B.A., Knott County Sportplex, and all points in between to play basketball. It's all in perspective. The girls at North and South don't all play together. Many travel to other cities to play with different players. As far as coaching, South's coach has coached travel ball for some time and one of North's assistants has too.

The dead period is understandable, but the real problem for softball (and baseball, for that matter) is that these sports are stuck with a dead period that's intended for football. The period from late June to early July is set up so that kids have a break right before HS football practice starts. It not only makes no sense for softball and baseball, but it hurts the kids because we've really only got a true 7-8 week summer ball season, and you're forcing coaches to miss 2 of those weeks for no good reason.

Softball dead period ought to be in December or January. If the purpose, like football, is to give the kids a rest before the HS season starts, then there ought to be different dead periods by sport that make more sense.

By the way, never heard anything about it after all the discussion... did that Texas kid play for South Laurel?

yes

About midway through the season, and she was a good addition, hit well, probably their best pitcher, definitely their number one the next two years. But she wasn't the dominant pitcher many made her out to be, and South's graduation losses are a little more severe than North's, so North will be favored next year, then they will take a big graduation hit after next year.

Is she playing travel ball on a KY team?

Went through Laurel last week and was shocked at what had happened at south laurel, girl arrested in principal office and a bomb threat put school on lockdown. Don't seem like a very hospitable environment to go to.
Did they graduate a lot, Rockcastle played them very good an I a notch ahead of south at this point

Van Hagar Wrote:About midway through the season, and she was a good addition, hit well, probably their best pitcher, definitely their number one the next two years. But she wasn't the dominant pitcher many made her out to be, and South's graduation losses are a little more severe than North's, so North will be favored next year, then they will take a big graduation hit after next year.

8th grader Peyton Gregory throws a 3 hit, shutout against defending state champ Scott County. I don't know about that big graduation hit. North will be right there, as usual. Riley, Marcum, Jervis, Miller plus Gregory along with some others that can play will keep North in great shape.

[quote=walterwhite]8th grader Peyton Gregory throws a 3 hit, shutout against defending state champ Scott County. I don't know about that big graduation hit. North will be right there, as usual. Riley, Marcum, Jervis, Miller plus Gregory along with some others that can play will keep North in great shape.[/QUOTE

After next year they will graduate Vires, Mills, Yantz and Colwell, the first three will be four year starters, Colwell a two-year, so that's a pretty big hit. But you are right about the girls you mentioned, and all are middle schoolers except Marcum who was a freshman this year. If Gregory keeps progressing in the circle, they could very well be the favorites for the next four years at least.