RunItUpTheGut Wrote:It should be against the law for a county to be named the same thing as the city within it.
Redundancy. 
nicker:
The city of Harlan changed its name from Mount Pleasant many, many years ago.
Fulton and Fulton County may be the only other example in Kentucky
HDE Wrote:Yeah, I've heard it a lot.
But when someone says Harlan wasn't a state contender in the 1990s they are in need of help. I know you know better.
I'm just amazed when someone who can't remember 1999 wants to debate with me.
I can't say I was there and old enough to really remember but I do know my history and they were tough. One of the greatest players to ever lace em up in the mountains in Thomas.
What grade is the new big kid at South Laurel? Watched them play last weekend and he was pretty impressive
he will be a jr this year
I have heard that Clay is recruiting him hard to come to Clay? Same things that was said to Jake Allen including the address. I'm sure rumor but still usually has some truth.
Has Clay got any transfers this year?
HDE Wrote:The city of Harlan changed its name from Mount Pleasant many, many years ago.
Fulton and Fulton County may be the only other example in Kentucky
I can see the name to change from Mount Pleasant.
Theres no need to lie to passer byes.
HDE Wrote:Yeah, I've heard it a lot.
But when someone says Harlan wasn't a state contender in the 1990s they are in need of help. I know you know better.
I'm just amazed when someone who can't remember 1999 wants to debate with me.
Im still waiting for you to post that whole 13th region title list.
GUT, why are you so harsh on us Harlan Countians? Why don't you just join us, I mean we have beat your @$$ in football for the last several years. It's ok, we accept doubt @$$'$ like you. I mean we are from Harlan County, you know, the place where all the REDNECKS live.
***Dumb @$$'$...I hate auto correct
The 13th region has been a little down talent wise. I remember in the 80s and 90s you had Richie Farmer, Sanford from Cawood, Charles Thomas, Tony Pietrowski, and Todd Cox just to name a few. It'd be nice to see better players in our area!
Not quite that level but McDaniel and Fox weren't too shabby. This will be the weakest (I know we say that every year seems like) that I can remember talent wise. There's no runaway stars, just about 5 pretty good players.
Heard the Lawson kid fr Jackson is considering Williamsburg or North laurel....
Not only was Harlan ranked #1 in the state in the mid 90's, Street and Smith college basketball preview magazine had them ranked 13 in America. Those teams were unebelievable and hands down was the most talented team in the state. The end results just show that despite the talent on the floor, on a given night, anyone can lose a game. Look at 2010 UK when they lost to West Virginia. That could have very well been tagged the greatest team in history had they not had an off night from behind the arc at the Carrier Dome.
People forget just how good Charles Thomas was. I've seen every Mr. Basketball for the past 20 years and would put Charles' talent up against any single one of them at the high school level. Aside from Charles they had a 6'8" 245 pound skilled big man in Todd Cox and one of the states all time assist leaders (if not the all time leader) in Michael Jones. Throw in a solid supporting cast of the Simpson brothers, Kevin Hudson, Nathan Blanton, Casey Lester, etc and that's as good of a team the region has seen.
As for Corbin, I've not heard anything so don't take this as a rumor but one has to wonder if Trevor Hill may be looking to come home and finish up High School? I say this because one has to think his friendship with Brad Calipari is what lured im to LCA. With Cal's son going off to prep school, could Hill come back?
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Im still waiting for you to post that whole 13th region title list.
Here is the link listing all past winners by region
http://khsaa.org/records/basketball/bbk-...mpions.pdf
The top 3 with the most championships in the 13th region: Clay (29), Corbin (14), Harlan (11).
HAROLD Wrote:Not only was Harlan ranked #1 in the state in the mid 90's, Street and Smith college basketball preview magazine had them ranked 13 in America. Those teams were unebelievable and hands down was the most talented team in the state. The end results just show that despite the talent on the floor, on a given night, anyone can lose a game. Look at 2010 UK when they lost to West Virginia. That could have very well been tagged the greatest team in history had they not had an off night from behind the arc at the Carrier Dome.
People forget just how good Charles Thomas was. I've seen every Mr. Basketball for the past 20 years and would put Charles' talent up against any single one of them at the high school level. Aside from Charles they had a 6'8" 245 pound skilled big man in Todd Cox and one of the states all time assist leaders (if not the all time leader) in Michael Jones. Throw in a solid supporting cast of the Simpson brothers, Kevin Hudson, Nathan Blanton, Casey Lester, etc and that's as good of a team the region has seen.
As for Corbin, I've not heard anything so don't take this as a rumor but one has to wonder if Trevor Hill may be looking to come home and finish up High School? I say this because one has to think his friendship with Brad Calipari is what lured im to LCA. With Cal's son going off to prep school, could Hill come back?
I agree......they were very good during that time. I remember watching them several times and I was impressed.
kyfellow Wrote:Here is the link listing all past winners by region
http://khsaa.org/records/basketball/bbk-...mpions.pdf
The top 3 with the most championships in the 13th region: Clay (29), Corbin (14), Harlan (11).
nicker:
Thank you, HDE didn't want to do that.
It proves my point to much....
bear claw Wrote:GUT, why are you so harsh on us Harlan Countians? Why don't you just join us, I mean we have beat your @$$ in football for the last several years. It's ok, we accept doubt @$$'$ like you. I mean we are from Harlan County, you know, the place where all the REDNECKS live.
Never I say. I feel like UK when they had Joker for 3 or 4 years. It was just a rough slump. Remember, when most schools consolidate, there usually really good for the first 5 or 6 years and then it goes down hill.
Whitley will own HC again. Just wait.
As for me, im out in Bowling Green where ill be watching teams like Bowling Green and Warren Central. You don't want to go there.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:nicker:
Thank you, HDE didn't want to do that.
It proves my point to much....
You said Clay and Corbin had "always" dominated. They haven't.
Clay dominated for quite a while. Corbin not as much, except for a run in the 40s. They were both good in the later 80s, early to mid 90s. For you, I guess that's always. Corbin wasn't that great when I was growing up in the 70s. Clay was first with Bell, Cawood and Cumberland behind them.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Never I say. I feel like UK when they had Joker for 3 or 4 years. It was just a rough slump. Remember, when most schools consolidate, there usually really good for the first 5 or 6 years and then it goes down hill.
OK. Help me remember which schools were good when they first opened and then went down hill.
Are you talking football?
HDE Wrote:OK. Help me remember which schools were good when they first opened and then went down hill.
Are you talking football?
Mercer County
Look at what happened there. I bet Collins starts to fall off before long as well. And hes the one that brought up football in a basketball thread.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Mercer County
Look at what happened there. I bet Collins starts to fall off before long as well. And hes the one that brought up football in a basketball thread.
Yeah, I know our Harlan County guy brought up football. I was just making sure that was the sport you were referring to when talking about starting off great and then falling off.
You're right about Mercer, but they timed that consolidation it appears to get good players from Harrodsburg and Mercer at the same time. I don't know about Collins.
OK, as far as examples.
Bell opened in 1984 and lost to Cawood the first three years for the district title and got progressively better. They have dropped a little the past two years, but they've been pretty consistent.
Perry Central wasn't very good in football when the school opened. They've had a few decent seasons but there's been no pattern of starting strong and falling off.
Shelby Valley has never been very good in football, the same for Pike Central and East Ridge as far as the Pike consolidations.
Harlan County had struggled in football the 20 years before the consolidation but they had a strong tradition of success before that. It will be hard to keep up the pace they set the past six years, because there have been very few eastern Kentucky schools with a strong start like they've had, but I think they will remain competitive. They have a very good freshmen class this year
HDE Wrote:Yeah, I know our Harlan County guy brought up football. I was just making sure that was the sport you were referring to when talking about starting off great and then falling off.
You're right about Mercer, but they timed that consolidation it appears to get good players from Harrodsburg and Mercer at the same time. I don't know about Collins.
OK, as far as examples.
Bell opened in 1984 and lost to Cawood the first three years for the district title and got progressively better. They have dropped a little the past two years, but they've been pretty consistent.
Perry Central wasn't very good in football when the school opened. They've had a few decent seasons but there's been no pattern of starting strong and falling off.
Shelby Valley has never been very good in football, the same for Pike Central and East Ridge as far as the Pike consolidations.
Harlan County had struggled in football the 20 years before the consolidation but they had a strong tradition of success before that. It will be hard to keep up the pace they set the past six years, because there have been very few eastern Kentucky schools with a strong start like they've had, but I think they will remain competitive. They have a very good freshmen class this year
Here is the problem with consolidation.
When you have 4 or 5 high schools or more in a county, than each one of those teams have full rosters. What happens is some of those kids don't blossom until there junior years and become stars. When schools consolidate, those kids are weeded out a long time before they blossom.
That brings me to my point. Harlan County was so good those first three or four years (not counting the first year) because they had a large pool of players to choose from. And im sure you can see that HC wasn't as strong last year, and wont be this year as they were in those years.
That's the point im getting at. I read an article in the Herald about a guy talking about the basketball talent in this state dropping off tremendously in the past 20 years, and he attributed it to this, which I think is dead on.
I think Harlan County had its most talented team last year, which I said several years earlier. They had some issues though and fell a couple of games short of the year before.
Every team will go through some ups and downs, but I think Harlan County will get better over the next few years, even if they fall off some this year and next.
As far as players getting weeded out, I don't believe it. HCHS has a freshmen team and a junior varsity team. Anyone with any talent will have plenty of opportunities to play. I rarely see a terrible freshmen turn into a senior star, in football, basketball, baseball or anything. It's one of those BS stories the anti-consolidation people come up with.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:I read an article in the Herald about a guy talking about the basketball talent in this state dropping off tremendously in the past 20 years, and he attributed it to this, which I think is dead on.
I saw that and just shook my head.
Every future basketball star, which is what the article was about (Division I type players) that I've been over the past 40 years was a big-time player in grade school, in middle school and then in high school. None of them come out of nowhere.
GUT, please give it up. HDE is one of the most knowledgable sports people I know of. He makes a whole lot more sense than u do. I just wanna know what team you are going to support now because your old team has been owned by HC. I don't blame you for trading schools to cheer for.
bear claw Wrote:GUT, please give it up. HDE is one of the most knowledgable sports people I know of. He makes a whole lot more sense than u do. I just wanna know what team you are going to support now because your old team has been owned by HC. I don't blame you for trading schools to cheer for.
He only makes more sense because you agree with him.
I will give HDE one thing, hes older than father time.
As for me trading schools to cheer for, trust me I still hope Whitley buries HC into the ground every single year, but don't talk about the schools where im at.
A district 8 all star team would have time competing with Bowling Green.
I think HC is going to start taking the Bell County path. I expect a new coaching staff within 2 or 3 years and then the slide will begin until somebody eventually rebuilds again.
HDE Wrote:I saw that and just shook my head.
Every future basketball star, which is what the article was about (Division I type players) that I've been over the past 40 years was a big-time player in grade school, in middle school and then in high school. None of them come out of nowhere.
Known around the country? I find that hard to believe considering the guys he was talking about were from the 40s through the 80's, which means before the internet. Sure, they might have been known around here, but we think some 6th grader around here is going to be awesome every year and it ends up being a complete bust as usual.
I doubt anyone in California or New York had heard of even Richie Farmer before his time at UK.
No, I'm just talking about Kentucky and so was the guy being quoted in the story.
I was disagreeing with him more than you in this case.
My point is future star players don't become stars overnight and would not have been forgotten due to consolidation of schools.
Think about some of the stars in the 13th Region the past two decades.
Richie Farmer, for example, was playing on Clay County's state tournament team in 1984, the first year I covered the Sweet 16, as an 8th grader.
Tony Pietrowski was a big-time player already as a freshman. I'm not from Corbin, but I'm sure he was one of the best in middle school.
Charles Thomas was being talked about in the first grade and was a star by the time he was a 6th grader at Cumberland. He started as an 8th grader at Harlan.
I'm the same age as Phil Cox and everyone knew he was going to be a great player in middle school.
These are all Division I players. There haven't been that many.
The story was about the decline of Division I players in Kentucky. The idea that some future Division I players are lost because of consolidation just makes no sense. It doesn't happen. Nobody is so good, at least in Kentucky, that they are going to fall by the wayside as freshmen because the team has too much talent already.