Bluegrassrivals

Following yesterday's loss I found myself thinking on the wrong side of the fence this season with the reality of Kentucky's struggles. I really think that this team will hit its groove and be ok. I took away some positives from yesterday's game with improvements from the point guard play to them having no choice but to realize they aren't as great/it's gonna be easy, as they thought it was gonna be. But, what I do see happening is a grumble from our true passionate fans that we are tired of watching players come and go using Kentucky as a doorstep to the pros. As a Kentucky fan we love having the best players and the #1 recruiting class every year; it feels great! But, what we gained with excitement in the spring to actually seeing productivity on the court is two different things. Is it Coach Cals fault that he recruits the best of the best because that's the game or is it his fault that he doesn't surround his philosophy with a longer outlook on the program for the fans and that's to bring home national championships. I think that the bigger problem is with the NCAA and the "one and done" rule but no matter the battle it is affecting our program at the present time. Kids don't care about Adolf Rupp and the fiddling 5, Jeff Shepard or the 92' duke game. They care about coming to Kentucky because there's 25,000 at every game, accommodations of a king, glorified as a king, and a first class ticket to the NBA draft. It's the same as a pimp would say, "don't hate the player hate the game", from a confused fan searching for answers, do I need to start hating the player or the game?

In a nutshell,, Louisville is now a make or break MUST win game. Number 1 seed is out the door.

Mix1...

inspiron Wrote:Following yesterday's loss I found myself thinking on the wrong side of the fence this season with the reality of Kentucky's struggles. I really think that this team will hit its groove and be ok. I took away some positives from yesterday's game with improvements from the point guard play to them having no choice but to realize they aren't as great/it's gonna be easy, as they thought it was gonna be. But, what I do see happening is a grumble from our true passionate fans that we are tired of watching players come and go using Kentucky as a doorstep to the pros. As a Kentucky fan we love having the best players and the #1 recruiting class every year; it feels great! But, what we gained with excitement in the spring to actually seeing productivity on the court is two different things. Is it Coach Cals fault that he recruits the best of the best because that's the game or is it his fault that he doesn't surround his philosophy with a longer outlook on the program for the fans and that's to bring home national championships. I think that the bigger problem is with the NCAA and the "one and done" rule but no matter the battle it is affecting our program at the present time. Kids don't care about Adolf Rupp and the fiddling 5, Jeff Shepard or the 92' duke game. They care about coming to Kentucky because there's 25,000 at every game, accommodations of a king, glorified as a king, and a first class ticket to the NBA draft. It's the same as a pimp would say, "don't hate the player hate the game", from a confused fan searching for answers, do I need to start hating the player or the game?

Well said.

It's kind of what you get when you are willing to sell your soul to the devil. Really....look at Cal's record. Before he came to UK...and don't forget UK wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole three years before Brainfart decided he needed a quick fix after the BG fiasco, that he had two final fours and two seasons wiped out. Yes...he has won a lot of games. But to warrant thirty six million dollars? UK fans really didn't like or trust him at one time either. And I don't think UK would have reached out to him if he didn't have that big class coming in. I find it amusing that UK fans think the Louisville game and a win will fix things. That's hilarious. That game has never defined U of L's season and I certainly wouldn't think it will UK's. It's a bragging right game. It's played in December. That's all. The one and dones....they don't play for the name across the chest. UK fans ripped Sean Woods for his comments...but he was right on about the state of the program. The NBA is the problem with the age restriction and the NCAA won't do anything about it. There are solutions. I just want to see the student back in the athlete and watch college players play the game. Winning national championships is great....but this way? Rupp has to be rolling in his grave. College basketball and NC's shouldn't define anyone's life.

Where has anyone said beating losereville will fix things? I said it's a must win game now. Pretty sure is the thoughts of most right now. Has zero with beating a crappy Louisville name. For seeding come tournament time. I wanted Cal the first time as the second time. The problem is lack of upperclassmen. I to this day, would take Cal 10/10 times over sextino. Championships do indeed define a lot of lives. If it shouldn't,, your team sucks.. Never understood the whole "I want to watch em progress and get to know the players" bit. You'll never actually know any of em personally, so why's it matter? Cal needs to instead of getting 5/10 top players, to 3/10 top 10 and couple top 50 players. And put their ass on the bench for screwing up. I'd start the last 5 on bench just to prove a point.

Mix1...

No.

Holy Cow, Am I the only sensible UK fan here???

Panic Button, Are you Serious???? The mind of UK fans truly makes most of them the laughingstock of the nation!

No, there is NO PANIC BUTTON! The Cats are deficient on the tools that would make them great - BUT - IT'S DECEMBER!!!! This team has the EXACT same SEC RECORD as every team in the Conference - THE EXACT SAME!!!!!

Does anyone not understand what March Madness is made of? It's made of teams that have all lost to better teams until the Christmas break - then - Conference play begins, and teams find a rhythm! LOL, it's time to punch up the ole PANIC BUTTON when the Cats go 0-16 in Conference play and lose the first game of the SEC tournament, until them - RELAX!!!!

Kentucky's 3 losses are too:

an experienced, veteran lead Michigan State that was #2 in the country
another senior lead, and under-rated Baylor team in their backyard
and an experienced North Carolina team that beat Louisville and Michigan State

3 losses to 3 tough, veteran lead teams

Now, Kentucky is coming off of a 1st round NIT loss, they had the best recruiting class in the country but the 2 guys they wanted more than anyone else are at Duke and Kansas. Their biggest rival won the national championship last year. For a UK fan, that's enough motivation to pound the panic button till it breaks. But really, it's a new team, a new season, and way too early to panic.

Now UK plays a tough and experienced Belmont, then a tough and experienced Louisville. I wouldn't be surprised if they loss those games. But an SEC loss to a team not named Florida or Missouri will be enough to hit that panic button.

As much as i hate to say it Uk will beat my Cards by 10 or more at Rupp .

3 loses in a season total,, acceptable. 3 loses and not started SEC play. Nope. Is a reason UK is number one in all time wins. Losing is not the reason. We've already lost any chance at a number 1 seed,, that worries me more than anything actually.

Mix1...

UK hasn't beaten a non-conference opponent on the road since it won at Louisville on New Year's Eve of 2010. It has lost nine of its last 10 games away from Rupp Arena dating back to last season. Actually think this may worry me the most.

Mix1...

Ive already pushed it.

Mix1 Wrote:3 loses in a season total,, acceptable. 3 loses and not started SEC play. Nope. Is a reason UK is number one in all time wins. Losing is not the reason. We've already lost any chance at a number 1 seed,, that worries me more than anything actually.

Mix1...

UK might not be number one in all time wins if say...they had to play in the ACC, Big Ten...etc. The SEC has been a little light in basketball for many, many years.

Stardust Wrote:Holy Cow, Am I the only sensible UK fan here???

Panic Button, Are you Serious???? The mind of UK fans truly makes most of them the laughingstock of the nation!

No, there is NO PANIC BUTTON! The Cats are deficient on the tools that would make them great - BUT - IT'S DECEMBER!!!! This team has the EXACT same SEC RECORD as every team in the Conference - THE EXACT SAME!!!!!

Does anyone not understand what March Madness is made of? It's made of teams that have all lost to better teams until the Christmas break - then - Conference play begins, and teams find a rhythm! LOL, it's time to punch up the ole PANIC BUTTON when the Cats go 0-16 in Conference play and lose the first game of the SEC tournament, until them - RELAX!!!!

^ I agree with all of this, but being sensible and using common sense won't get you any attention on this site SD. You know that.

Fromthebleachers Wrote:UK might not be number one in all time wins if say...they had to play in the ACC, Big Ten...etc. The SEC has been a little light in basketball for many, many years.

I feel better as is, UK, sec, than Kansas at number 2 in all time wins in the big 12. They're almost guaranteed flawless record in league play yearly. UK is still UK, regardless of conference.

Mix1...

I'll say this. If UK had a Ohio State schedle,, they'd still be undefeated and ranked 1..

Mix1...

alfus21 Wrote:^ I agree with all of this, but being sensible and using common sense won't get you any attention on this site SD. You know that.

LOL, fair enough - Let's go ahead and shut down the basketball season, it's a waste of time. BRING ON UK FOOTBALL!!!!!!:HitWall:

Mix1 Wrote:I'll say this. If UK had a Ohio State schedle,, they'd still be undefeated and ranked 1..

Mix1...

If the UK Football team had the OSU football schedule, they would have been undefeated as well....

Mix1 Wrote:I feel better as is, UK, sec, than Kansas at number 2 in all time wins in the big 12. They're almost guaranteed flawless record in league play yearly. UK is still UK, regardless of conference.

Mix1...

Yea..all those wins in the thirties, forties and fifties in the SEC where the football players played basketball to stay in shape offered UK countless games of competition. Not to mention wins over the Lexington YMCA. Get real. Kansas and North Carolina played in basketball conferences. There is a big difference.

Fromthebleachers Wrote:Yea..all thoseins in the thirties, forties.sd fifties in the SEC where the football players played basketball to stay in shape offered UK countball games of competition. Not to mention wins over the Lexington YMCAUGet real. haveas and North Carolina played in basketball conferences. There is a big difference.

Lol,, go home,, you're drunk if you think that. Opinions are like A holes,, Obviously everyone has one but some are bigger than others. Id put UCLA in before I would Kansas. Are almost zero competition in the big 12. How many championships does KU and UNC have again?

Mix1...

All UK needs to do is just hit the damn free throws and they would be undefeated. It's that plain and simple.

If they could shot 80% or better from the free throw line we wouldn't even be having this thread!!!! But their lack of free throw shooting is the biggest problem they have. They go to the line on a average of 40 times a game and can only hit about 17-19 a game!!! That's what is wrong with them period!!!!

Mix1 Wrote:Lol,, go home,, you're drunk if you think that. Opinions are like A holes,, Obviously everyone has one but some are bigger than others. Id put UCLA in before I would Kansas. Are almost zero competition in the big 12. How many championships does KU and UNC have again?

Mix1...

I have no argument with UCLA. They were a dynasty for a long time. But if you think Kansas and NC played a lesser or equal schedule over the last 100 years than UK you are smoking something. I'm pretty sure both Kansas and NC have national titles. The SEC is and will always be a football conference first. UK fans have a hard time with facts. Like the fact that the NIT was a much more prestigious tournament in the forties than the NCAA at the time. Rupp wouldn't play in it for years. Check out your history. But...I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I know all the UK history I need to know. Kansas over the past 20 years have basically had them handed a perfect league record. I choose to base my thoughts off of 8 championships. Reason I threw UCLA name out with their 11. If KU and UNC deserve all of their wins, how come both of their total titles basically equal UK's? Only in Carolina and Kansas do they count helmes titles, lol. According to your argument,, Ky shouldn't have as many titles, and KU UNC should have more. Your contradicting yourself. WTF did I bring anything up about NIT? Of course it was the main tournament back then. And UK has a few of those. I'm sorry Louisville is a red headed step child of UK. Are and always will be number 2 team in the state. Sorry. W is a W anyway you choose to view it. Only played 20 games or so back then. Is no way you can downgrade it lol. If we had Ohio States schedule past 10 years, we'd be 50 on kansas now.

Mix1...

Mix1 Wrote:I know all the UK history I need to know. Kansas over the past 20 years have basically had them handed a perfect league record. I choose to base my thoughts off of 8 championships. Reason I threw UCLA name out with their 11. If KU and UNC deserve all of their wins, how come both of their total titles basically equal UK's? Only in Carolina and Kansas do they count helmes titles, lol. According to your argument,, Ky shouldn't have as many titles, and KU UNC should have more. Your contradicting yourself. WTF did I bring anything up about NIT? Of course it was the main tournament back then. And UK has a few of those. I'm sorry Louisville is a red headed step child of UK. Are and always will be number 2 team in the state. Sorry. W is a W anyway you choose to view it. Only played 20 games or so back then. Is no way you can downgrade it lol. If we had Ohio States schedule past 10 years, we'd be 50 on kansas now.

Mix1...

LOL...I'm talking the last century idiot...not the last twenty years. Don't compare UK to UCLA either. UCLA won their national championships in the modern era. UK won four in the stone age. Again, when the NCAA wasn't the prestigious tournament. Check your history. U of L has one in the fifties when Charlie Tyra was a star at U of L. That team was as good if not the best in the nation. UK also has played basketball longer than U of L. U of L was once a private school. You must be a child because you are clueless. And by the way...check out Western Kentucky on the all time wins list. They are in the top twenty. Sorry bud....just because one your drunken coaches tried to lay a label on U of L...only UK fans are dumb enough to think otherwise. Of the all time wins record.....I respect North Carolina's the most. The ACC has always been a great basketball conference. If you want to check the modern era....you will find U of L has accomplished pretty much what UK has. Crum took U of L to six final fours. Pitino has taken U of L to four. Not to shabby. But that Mike guy at Duke? What he has done is even more impressive.

Fromthebleachers Wrote:LOL...I'm talking the last century idiot...not the last twenty years. Don't compare UK to UCLA either. UCLA won their national championships in the modern era. UK won four in the stone age. Again, when the NCAA wasn't the prestigious tournament. Check your history. U of L has one in the fifties when Charlie Tyra was a star at U of L. That team was as good if not the best in the nation. UK also has played basketball longer than U of L. U of L was once a private school. You must be a child because you are clueless. And by the way...check out Western Kentucky on the all time wins list. They are in the top twenty. Sorry bud....just because one your drunken coaches tried to lay a label on U of L...only UK fans are dumb enough to think otherwise. Of the all time wins record.....I respect North Carolina's the most. The ACC has always been a great basketball conference. If you want to check the modern era....you will find U of L has accomplished pretty much what UK has. Crum took U of L to six final fours. Pitino has taken U of L to four. Not to shabby. But that Mike guy at Duke? What he has done is even more impressive.

How are the late 40s - early 50s, really that much different than the 60s and early 70s?

Just for the record. The all time series between the two is 6-4 in favor of UK.

You befuddle me.

Fromthebleachers Wrote:LOL...I'm talking the last century idiot...not the last twenty years. Don't compare UK to UCLA either. UCLA won their national championships in the modern era. UK won four in the stone age. Again, when the NCAA wasn't the prestigious tournament. Check your history. U of L has one in the fifties when Charlie Tyra was a star at U of L. That team was as good if not the best in the nation. UK also has played basketball longer than U of L. U of L was once a private school. You must be a child because you are clueless. And by the way...check out Western Kentucky on the all time wins list. They are in the top twenty. Sorry bud....just because one your drunken coaches tried to lay a label on U of L...only UK fans are dumb enough to think otherwise. Of the all time wins record.....I respect North Carolina's the most. The ACC has always been a great basketball conference. If you want to check the modern era....you will find U of L has accomplished pretty much what UK has. Crum took U of L to six final fours. Pitino has taken U of L to four. Not to shabby. But that Mike guy at Duke? What he has done is even more impressive.

Just for fun, when did the "modern" era begin? Louisville is actually pretty close in all the major categories in certain time eras.

Since 1990.....

Kentucky - 3 NCAA Championships, 1 Runner Up, 3 Final Fours

Louisville - 1 NCAA Championship, 2 Final Fours

Since 1980.....

Kentucky - 3 NCAA Championships, 1 Runner Up, 4 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Championships, 4 Final Fours

Since 1970.....

Kentucky - 4 NCAA Championships, 2 Runner Ups, 5 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Championships, 6 Final Fours

Since 1960.....

Kentucky - 4 NCAA Championships, 3 Runner Ups, 5 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Championships, 6 Final Fours

So it's actually not too crazy to say that since 1960 the two have been even on championships.

But the problem is, you keep saying the NIT was the premier tournament of the 50's when it wasn't.

In the early 1950's, the NCAA began a slow progression of minimizing the NIT's prestige by making it mandatory for winners of the top-10 conferences to participate in the NCAA Tournament and not the NIT. In addition, the NCAA began to expand their field, first to 16 teams (from 8) and then to 22 teams. This further put a crimp on the NIT. Both tournaments prestigious in the 1940's so winning either was quite an accomplishment.

Not to mention that UK won the NIT in 1946 when you say it was indeed the most prestigious. When UofL won it in '56 most of the best teams in the country weren't even in it.

So...

Since 1950.....

Kentucky - 6 NCAA Titles, 3 Runner Ups, 5 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Titles, 7 Final Fours

These numbers can be skewed many different ways to make one team look as good as they other but in all cases when it comes down to it, titles are all that matters, and in none of my examples does UofL have more than UK.

Also important when looking at head to head stats. Kentucky leads the ALL TIME series vs. Louisville 30-15. But what about the modern era?

Since 2000?

Kentucky 9 >>> Louisville 5

Since 1990?

Kentucky 16 >>> Louisville 8

Since 1980?

Kentucky 21 >>> Louisville 12

I could keep going but we know how it turns out. Kentucky has always been better than Louisville, and will most likely continue to do so.

I'm not pushing a panic button. I might after a loss, but Kentucky has lost to 3 top 15 teams by a total of 14 points.

I'm not even going to get into an argument about conferences, because I think you'd be shocked that the SEC has more than held it's own over the years compared to the ACC and any conference that Louisville has been in.

I respect Louisville's program. They've been solid since the 1980's. Probably a little more up and down than Kentucky with success, but no need to call fans idiots when they're just stating and supporting their opinions.

They are horrible at free throws.
No the panic button doesn't need pushed, no idea why it was brought up about other coaches. This team will get it together but there will always be a few bumps in the road. I truly believe they get shook up before a big game just because they are young and don't really know what to expect. By march the team will have been tested against the best teams in the nation and that's a good thing come tourney time.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Ive already pushed it.

I'm shocked.

alfus21 Wrote:Just for fun, when did the "modern" era begin? Louisville is actually pretty close in all the major categories in certain time eras.

Since 1990.....

Kentucky - 3 NCAA Championships, 1 Runner Up, 3 Final Fours

Louisville - 1 NCAA Championship, 2 Final Fours

Since 1980.....

Kentucky - 3 NCAA Championships, 1 Runner Up, 4 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Championships, 4 Final Fours

Since 1970.....

Kentucky - 4 NCAA Championships, 2 Runner Ups, 5 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Championships, 6 Final Fours

Since 1960.....

Kentucky - 4 NCAA Championships, 3 Runner Ups, 5 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Championships, 6 Final Fours

So it's actually not too crazy to say that since 1960 the two have been even on championships.

But the problem is, you keep saying the NIT was the premier tournament of the 50's when it wasn't.

In the early 1950's, the NCAA began a slow progression of minimizing the NIT's prestige by making it mandatory for winners of the top-10 conferences to participate in the NCAA Tournament and not the NIT. In addition, the NCAA began to expand their field, first to 16 teams (from 8) and then to 22 teams. This further put a crimp on the NIT. Both tournaments prestigious in the 1940's so winning either was quite an accomplishment.

Not to mention that UK won the NIT in 1946 when you say it was indeed the most prestigious. When UofL won it in '56 most of the best teams in the country weren't even in it.

So...

Since 1950.....

Kentucky - 6 NCAA Titles, 3 Runner Ups, 5 Final Fours

Louisville - 3 NCAA Titles, 7 Final Fours

These numbers can be skewed many different ways to make one team look as good as they other but in all cases when it comes down to it, titles are all that matters, and in none of my examples does UofL have more than UK.

Also important when looking at head to head stats. Kentucky leads the ALL TIME series vs. Louisville 30-15. But what about the modern era?

Since 2000?

Kentucky 9 >>> Louisville 5

Since 1990?

Kentucky 16 >>> Louisville 8

Since 1980?

Kentucky 21 >>> Louisville 12

I could keep going but we know how it turns out. Kentucky has always been better than Louisville, and will most likely continue to do so.

I'm not pushing a panic button. I might after a loss, but Kentucky has lost to 3 top 15 teams by a total of 14 points.

I'm not even going to get into an argument about conferences, because I think you'd be shocked that the SEC has more than held it's own over the years compared to the ACC and any conference that Louisville has been in.

I respect Louisville's program. They've been solid since the 1980's. Probably a little more up and down than Kentucky with success, but no need to call fans idiots when they're just stating and supporting their opinions.

This gets my vote for post of the year.

Good research, nice substance, and all around STFU to the poster it was related to.

Well done sir. Well done.

Lol,, good one. I'm to lazy to look all that up. But was mostly my point. Yeah was talking pre 50s on the NIT. Rupp could have cared less about any other tournament back then. And I hate UNC and KU claiming the Helmes banners are as good as the actual NCAA banner. +1 sir.

Mix1...