Bluegrassrivals

Just for fun. How many passes total will be attempted between these two teams Friday night?

I don't know how many passes JC will throw but my guess is that it will be more than Harlan County expects. People who have followed Coach Matney's career over the years knows that the key to many of his biggest wins has been unexpected pass plays. Ask any Ashland fan.

I would set it at 15.
You can expect each team to throw it around 5-10 times, but if one team gets behind and throws in desperation, it could be much higher.

I'll say 18.

Harlan County has passed 25 times in 4 games. That average just over 6 per games. Add 4 for Central and I will say 12 or less.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:I would set it at 15.
You can expect each team to throw it around 5-10 times, but if one team gets behind and throws in desperation, it could be much higher.

One thing that you can count on is that Johnson Central will not be forced to pass the ball out of desperation. It has never happened against Highlands and it will not happen in a regular season game. If Harlan County wins, then it will win by forcing fumbles and keeping Johnson Central's offense off the field.

I will say 11.

JC 7 passes

HC 3 passes

Hoot Gibson Wrote:One thing that you can count on is that Johnson Central will not be forced to pass the ball out of desperation. It has never happened against Highlands and it will not happen in a regular season game. If Harlan County wins, then it will win by forcing fumbles and keeping Johnson Central's offense off the field.

I will say 11.

So if Johnson Central is behind by 7 and starting at there own 10 yard line with 2 minutes to go, they wont try and throw the ball 10-12 times in that one series?

12. Woody Hayes would love it.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:So if Johnson Central is behind by 7 and starting at there own 10 yard line with 2 minutes to go, they wont try and throw the ball 10-12 times in that one series?

I can't recall a situation where that has happened before and I can't recall a game where Central's running game has been shutdown. I recall at least three occasions where Matney called a pass play for the winning touchdown or two-point conversion on JC's last offensive play of a game.

A seven point deficit is one long run and a two point conversion away from a lead. The chance of JC connecting on one long pass or run is much better than them marching down the field throwing a series of short sideline passes. That is just not their game - but maybe this year will be different.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:So if Johnson Central is behind by 7 and starting at there own 10 yard line with 2 minutes to go, they wont try and throw the ball 10-12 times in that one series?

I guarantee you wouldn't see 10 passes on one drive, because there's no way we could COMPLETE 10 passes in one drive. You'd see some sort of trickery, but what you'd probably get would be more like some runs with some long bomb attempts thrown in. The West Coast short-passing bubble screen stuff...that's just not something we do. If we throw, it's going to generally be not when you expect it and if it works it'll work for a long gain.

That being said, he may come out and throw it 15 times Friday night. He's a bit of a mad scientist.

No offence to either team or to any person on this thread but you got me thinking(which is dangerous)lol. Me and Gut had a short conversation on the passing and pass defense(or lack thereof) in the Mountain area a few weeks ago. I personaly believe that if the Mountain teams would start to work more on passing and pass defense that we could compete a little better with the teams up north and out west. We just have so many teams so many years who are so one dimensional. I can point to so many years and teams from this area who if they were a little more balanced would probably have rings right now. What do you think it would take for Mountain teams to start working more on the pass game and why do you think they don't now. I hear a lot of people say things like, we just don't have those kind of athletes for that kind of football, but I aint buying it. It seems to me that the coaches and and fans and kids and parents of kids just think about the run game all the time. I think we have kids who would be good passing QB's and Receivers but we either don't see it or don't work on it or don't even try to find it or something. I get so sick of teams like Highlands and Mayfield beating us down and then they say things like, hey you got a good team but your one dimensional, and you know what, I can't argue with that because we are. I would love to hear some of your thaughts on this.

Sorry to get off topic but this is something that has been bugging me for years. I know that the teams like Highlands, Central, Trinity, Bowling Green have way more tallent to choose from and will probably always win the championship count, but think of all the years that Mountain teams went to the carpet and came close to winning. Do you think that more balance on both sides of the ball could have been the difference? I know we love the run game in this part of Kentucky and I do to, but I also think the pass game is nice also. Look at the last 2 years with Belfry and Central or Those 2 close years with Bell and Boyle or that year that Johnson Central took Highlands to the wire a few years ago. Do you think that if those teams had more balance on both sides of the ball that they would probably have won those games. It just seems to me that when we get in a game with teams like that, after they stack the box and smack us in the mouth and start to pass all over the field is when we fall apart and have no answers. Look at the last time we had a champion with Hazard. That Hazard team could run or pass and did both well and had defenses on their heels all the time. Look at the Breathitt teams of the 90s. It would seem to me that the only time a mountain team who runs all the time wins a championship is when they are so good and so fast and so big and talented on the O line that they just overwhelm the other team and how often has that happened. Don't give me dates from the 80's on back because this game has changed and back then every High school team was mostly run.

Do-double-gg Wrote:Sorry to get off topic but this is something that has been bugging me for years. I know that the teams like Highlands, Central, Trinity, Bowling Green have way more tallent to choose from and will probably always win the championship count, but think of all the years that Mountain teams went to the carpet and came close to winning. Do you think that more balance on both sides of the ball could have been the difference? I know we love the run game in this part of Kentucky and I do to, but I also think the pass game is nice also. Look at the last 2 years with Belfry and Central or Those 2 close years with Bell and Boyle or that year that Johnson Central took Highlands to the wire a few years ago. Do you think that if those teams had more balance on both sides of the ball that they would probably have won those games. It just seems to me that when we get in a game with teams like that, after they stack the box and smack us in the mouth and start to pass all over the field is when we fall apart and have no answers. Look at the last time we had a champion with Hazard. That Hazard team could run or pass and did both well and had defenses on their heels all the time. Look at the Breathitt teams of the 90s. It would seem to me that the only time a mountain team who runs all the time wins a championship is when they are so good and so fast and so big and talented on the O line that they just overwhelm the other team and how often has that happened. Don't give me dates from the 80's on back because this game has changed and back then every High school team was mostly run.

I think it honestly depends more on who you run into in the playoffs.

Don't forget: Johnson Central has gone up against and absolutely shredded a fair number of teams, even some from NKY, with balanced or even pass-heavy attacks. We have been able to MOVE the ball on Highlands. We just can't stop them. But when you look at the results...nobody else is stopping them either. Nothing you practice can prepare you for a team that platoons, is full of speed at every position on both sides of the ball, and executes just about everything perfectly.

When you're running into teams that are nationally ranked more often than not, you need to have a system that gets the ball into the hands of your best playmakers and gets blockers in front of them. Does it help us to defend the pass when we practice against the run? No. But if we focus on our line and getting enough pressure on a HS quarterback, perhaps you can force enough mistakes to get some stops and turnovers. Controlling the clock and keeping those high-powered offenses off the field gives us our best chance, I personally feel.

Being balanced didn't help Woodford County the last few years we played them, for example - they had several great athletes that they rarely got the ball to, and they were horrid. In the end, I think more important than WHAT you run is HOW WELL you run it.

Diogenes Wrote:I think it honestly depends more on who you run into in the playoffs.

Don't forget: Johnson Central has gone up against and absolutely shredded a fair number of teams, even some from NKY, with balanced or even pass-heavy attacks. We have been able to MOVE the ball on Highlands. We just can't stop them. But when you look at the results...nobody else is stopping them either. Nothing you practice can prepare you for a team that platoons, is full of speed at every position on both sides of the ball, and executes just about everything perfectly.

When you're running into teams that are nationally ranked more often than not, you need to have a system that gets the ball into the hands of your best playmakers and gets blockers in front of them. Does it help us to defend the pass when we practice against the run? No. But if we focus on our line and getting enough pressure on a HS quarterback, perhaps you can force enough mistakes to get some stops and turnovers. Controlling the clock and keeping those high-powered offenses off the field gives us our best chance, I personally feel.

Being balanced didn't help Woodford County the last few years we played them, for example - they had several great athletes that they rarely got the ball to, and they were horrid. In the end, I think more important than WHAT you run is HOW WELL you run it.

You have some really good points that I agree with, but can you imagine in this year 2013 if Johnson Central, Belfry or Harlan Co had a decent pass game to go along with the run games they have on both sides of the ball.

Diogenes is correct, IMO, about execution of a planned play.
However, I have to agree with do-double-gg 110%!! (gasp; did I really say that?)

Anyway, it's a no brainer to me that more offensive options will give you more offense. I don't buy into the notion that we have one dimensional players. I absolutely think it would make us a stronger team to have the pass play as a viable option!!

Now all that being said, I am not a football coach! AND, I have the utmost respect for Coach Larkey and his staff. I will support their decisions as long as they're making them!

The referee's may pass the ball from out of bounds back on the field a few times.

Do-double-gg Wrote:You have some really good points that I agree with, but can you imagine in this year 2013 if Johnson Central, Belfry or Harlan Co had a decent pass game to go along with the run games they have on both sides of the ball.

Year in and year out, Johnson Central executes its running game better than any high school team that I have ever seen for a school its size. Developing a good passing attack takes practice time and the more teams like Johnson Central, Belfry, and Harlan County focus on their passing games, the less time that they have to hone their rushing attacks. Over the past few years, nobody in 4A or below has played Highlands any tougher than JC. If running a balanced offense was all that it took to beat Highlands, then the NKY and western Kentucky teams that run balanced attacks would be more competitive with the Bluebirds.

That is what gets me about this kind of criticism of teams that choose to focus on a strong ground game. How many teams running balanced attacks are competing with Highlands?

If this JC is as good as many people are saying - and that is a big if, this team will be the biggest threat to beat Highlands when the playoffs begin. No team in 4A is going to beat Highlands this season playing the same style of football as Highlands plays. Highlands has difficulty with teams that run right at them because it is a style that they do not see very often. Highlands practices against a balanced offense every day and they are not able to simulate the kind of offense that JC runs for the same reason that JC cannot simulate the Highlands offense very well in practice.

It is better to run the ball extremely well than to both pass and run the ball pretty well. Pretty well just does not cut it against a team that has ex-NFL players coaching its quarterbacks and receiving corps.

bear claw Wrote:Just for fun. How many passes total will be attempted between these two teams Friday night?

<10

Go Bears!

Jim Matney prepares as well as anyone. If he see something in the game film, or something as the game progresses he will use it. JC has the best passing group maybe ever in the Matney era. JC will run the ball and very well, but this opens alot of opportunities for the passing game. If they pass, it will be the home run type of pass.

I will be the differrent one here. I say we will see 20+ passes in this game to go with a lot of running.