vector Wrote:truth hurts don't it big boy
You tell me. What does it feel like to see Obama invading your privacy far worse than anything that you criticized Bush for doing? What does it feel like to watch one Obama appointee after another lie under oath to Congress? Is this what you voted for - to have all of your internet ramblings and phone call logs examined by the administration for which you voted twice? Are you feeling the painful truth yet?
nicker:
Hoot Gibson Wrote:You tell me. What does it feel like to see Obama invading your privacy far worse than anything that you criticized Bush for doing? What does it feel like to watch one Obama appointee after another lie under oath to Congress? Is this what you voted for - to have all of your internet ramblings and phone call logs examined by the administration for which you voted twice? Are you feeling the painful truth yet? nicker:
if it will stop the
Terrorist Attacks from killing people in this country I have no problem with it got nothing to hide pay my taxs all my money is in this country not in some other country and trying to hide it if you are a computer programmer like you say you are you had better make your software more secure instead of letting china steal it
vector Wrote:if it will stop the Terrorist Attacks from killing people in this country I have no problem with it got nothing to hide pay my taxs all my money is in this country not in some other country and trying to hide it if you are a computer programmer like you say you are you had better make your software more secure instead of letting china steal it
Unless you are a terrorist or are supporting terrorists, then how will the federal government analyzing your phone logs and geolocation data help prevent any deaths at the hands of terrorists?
If our federal government had any interest in securing the borders, then it would not need to spend $80 billion a year collecting data on American citizens. As for saving lives, how many American lives must be saved at the cost of losing your constitutional rights to a totalitarian regime that selectively enforces our laws?
When people like you say that they are willing to trade constitutional rights in exchange for what Obama claims will save lives, you dishonor all the people who have courageously fought and died for more than 200 years to protect those rights and you dishonor the brave men and women who continue that fight today.
Obama had a chance to save four American lives in Benghazi and he passed. When you elect and appoint corrupt politicians to run the government, then the less information that they have in their possession, the better.
Dr. Susan Rice, the same person who appeared on five talk shows in a single day to blame the deaths in Benghazi on a You Tube video, will soon be taking over as Obama's National Security Advisor. Throughout history, politicians have used foreign threats to justify grabbing more power for themselves. If you trust these people to look out for your best interests, then you are a fool.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:You tell me. What does it feel like to see Obama invading your privacy far worse than anything that you criticized Bush for doing? What does it feel like to watch one Obama appointee after another lie under oath to Congress? Is this what you voted for - to have all of your internet ramblings and phone call logs examined by the administration for which you voted twice? Are you feeling the painful truth yet? nicker:
If you aren't communicating with terrorists, they don't watch your phone calls. I'd suggest not talking to terrorists, or post hate speech on the net, and they won't bother you.
TheRealVille Wrote:If you aren't communicating with terrorists, they don't watch your phone calls. I'd suggest not talking to terrorists, or post hate speech on the net, and they won't bother you.
Yes, and if you are paying your taxes and following the law, the IRS will not harass you either. If you are a reporter just doing your job, you have nothing to fear from the Obama administration. And if you are serving your country as a diplomat, then you have nothing to worry about either. Obama has your back, as he regularly reminds his minions and if something wicked your way comes, then it will be somebody else's fault.
[YOUTUBE="Maxine Waters describes Big Brother Obama's massive database"]eIA1lQBqH1s[/YOUTUBE]
Hoot Gibson Wrote:You tell me. What does it feel like to see Obama invading your privacy far worse than anything that you criticized Bush for doing? What does it feel like to watch one Obama appointee after another lie under oath to Congress? Is this what you voted for - to have all of your internet ramblings and phone call logs examined by the administration for which you voted twice? Are you feeling the painful truth yet? nicker:
He feels all warm and fuzzy, like a sheep following his shepherd.
Truth? He will not feel, see or know it until it slaps him in the face, and that more than likely wont be any time soon.
vector Wrote:if it will stop the Terrorist Attacks from killing people in this country I have no problem with it got nothing to hide pay my taxs all my money is in this country not in some other country and trying to hide it if you are a computer programmer like you say you are you had better make your software more secure instead of letting china steal it
I thought you faked most of your hick posts but, I'm beginning to see that despite your lack of understanding as to meaning of fundamental American freedoms, there is some genuine detachment from reality glaring through. Put another way, if freedom of speech rises only to the level of bone fetching for RealVille and the occasional swipe you take at me and/or Hoot, then I agree with you completely. In your case there is literally
nothing to hide. But, on the other hand, if one at all takes serious the challenge of self governance, as was concisely laid out by our forefathers in the constitution. And, prefers not to line up behind some bozo that still blames the previous administration for every ill. Or, if one's political views could not be easily contained within the time honored phrase,
"now you know, the democrat is fer the werkin man" then, we may have a problem.
The right to privacy doesn't mean anything to you because you can't connect the dots on where all this is heading. The cost of freedom was, and is, much too dear, for a nation of those who would self govern themselves, to willingly become mindless liberal zombies who either cannot, or will not discipline themselves to discern the truth from the lies.
TheRealVille Wrote:If you aren't communicating with terrorists, they don't watch your phone calls. I'd suggest not talking to terrorists, or post hate speech on the net, and they won't bother you.
Now
really is the time to refer to the George W administration. Things were exactly as you suggest under his leadership. They only tagged terrorists and Muslims suspected of terror ties back then. Now they 'data mine' everybody's every call and every online key stroke.
And, as to the bolded. Of course they will bother you. This administration already has been proven to have used the power of the federal government to unfairly win a second term and political opposites of liberals have been targeted by the IRS, EPA, OSHA and likely the DOJ, among others. All of which is intended to discourage free speech and honest elections. You're good with all of that no doubt because, like I have said, democrats would vote for the devil if he ran as a democrat.
Ironically, Satan will ultimately appoint his man to run things as soon as the evils of data mining reach their ultimate ends. Nothing will be private. All any government official will have to do is type in your name, your phone number, your address, or your social security number and volumes of your personal info (all of it actually) will be instantly laid out before some government agent's prying eyes. You will have no secrets at all, zero as you like to say. When there are no more secrets, there will be no more privacy. Government therefore, will rule with absolute power. And, as the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Thus, when at some point, everybody has to receive "the mark" in order to take part in any commerce, or worse, avoid being branded a criminal or enemy of the state.
Maybe then, your eyes will open. Information is power, and when government holds all the cards men's freedoms will be completely gone.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Yes, and if you are paying your taxes and following the law, the IRS will not harass you either. If you are a reporter just doing your job, you have nothing to fear from the Obama administration. And if you are serving your country as a diplomat, then you have nothing to worry about either. Obama has your back, as he regularly reminds his minions and if something wicked your way comes, then it will be somebody else's fault.
[YOUTUBE="Maxine Waters describes Big Brother Obama's massive database"]eIA1lQBqH1s[/YOUTUBE]
Obama your president boy get over it
I don't see how we can rip a Democrat President so bad for this, when it was a Rupublican that opened the door for all of this too happen.
TheRealThing Wrote:I thought you faked most of your hick posts but, I'm beginning to see that despite your lack of understanding as to meaning of fundamental American freedoms, there is some genuine detachment from reality glaring through. Put another way, if freedom of speech rises only to the level of bone fetching for RealVille and the occasional swipe you take at me and/or Hoot, then I agree with you completely. In your case there is literally nothing to hide. But, on the other hand, if one at all takes serious the challenge of self governance, as was concisely laid out by our forefathers in the constitution. And, prefers not to line up behind some bozo that still blames the previous administration for every ill. Or, if one's political views could not be easily contained within the time honored phrase, "now you know, the democrat is fer the werkin man" then, we may have a problem.
The right to privacy doesn't mean anything to you because you can't connect the dots on where all this is heading. The cost of freedom was, and is, much too dear, for a nation of those who would self govern themselves, to willingly become mindless liberal zombies who either cannot, or will not discipline themselves to discern the truth from the lies.
The
USA PATRIOT Act of 2001 is an
Act of the U.S. Congress that was signed into law by
President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. The title of the act is a ten letter
acronym (USA PATRIOT) that stands for Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001.
[1]
why was it not wrong then but now it is?
who said this
IMO, you need to relax. Get yourself a nice drink, (not Kool Aid) and get yourself familiar with what really happened in 2007-2008. I went to the trouble to provide a link to that end. But first here's an appetizer; "The financial crisis of 2007â2008, also known as the
Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. It resulted in the threat of total collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by
national governments, and downturns in stock markets
around the world. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financi...007%E2%80%9308
The Bush administration and the American public were dealt a financial one-two punch which proved to be earth shaking in scope. First was 9/11 with over a 3 Trillion dollar price tag and the second was the global economic downturn referenced above. Neither of them were Bush's fault.
this was just a little of the mess your boy left not counting the 2 longest wars in our history which every time we went to war we either raised taxs or sold war bonds but what did your boy do? he cut taxs not once but twice
now i will agree with you and hoot about doing away wth the tax code and go to a flat tax but no deductions you could mail it in on a postcard but i don't believe either side would do it
TheRealThing Wrote:I thought you faked most of your hick posts but, I'm beginning to see that despite your lack of understanding as to meaning of fundamental American freedoms, there is some genuine detachment from reality glaring through. Put another way, if freedom of speech rises only to the level of bone fetching for RealVille and the occasional swipe you take at me and/or Hoot, then I agree with you completely. In your case there is literally nothing to hide. But, on the other hand, if one at all takes serious the challenge of self governance, as was concisely laid out by our forefathers in the constitution. And, prefers not to line up behind some bozo that still blames the previous administration for every ill. Or, if one's political views could not be easily contained within the time honored phrase, "now you know, the democrat is fer the werkin man" then, we may have a problem.
The right to privacy doesn't mean anything to you because you can't connect the dots on where all this is heading. The cost of freedom was, and is, much too dear, for a nation of those who would self govern themselves, to willingly become mindless liberal zombies who either cannot, or will not discipline themselves to discern the truth from the lies.
The
USA PATRIOT Act of 2001 is an
Act of the U.S. Congress that was signed into law by
President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. The title of the act is a ten letter
acronym (USA PATRIOT) that stands for Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001.
[1]
why was it not wrong then but now it is?
who said this
IMO, you need to relax. Get yourself a nice drink, (not Kool Aid) and get yourself familiar with what really happened in 2007-2008. I went to the trouble to provide a link to that end. But first here's an appetizer; "The financial crisis of 2007â2008, also known as the
Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. It resulted in the threat of total collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by
national governments, and downturns in stock markets
around the world. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financi...007%E2%80%9308
The Bush administration and the American public were dealt a financial one-two punch which proved to be earth shaking in scope. First was 9/11 with over a 3 Trillion dollar price tag and the second was the global economic downturn referenced above. Neither of them were Bush's fault.
this was just a little of the mess your boy left not counting the 2 longest wars in our history which every time we went to war we either raised taxs or sold war bonds but what did your boy do? he cut taxs not once but twice
now i will agree with you and hoot about doing away wth the tax code and go to a flat tax but no deductions you could mail it in on a postcard but i don't believe either side would do it
TheRealThing Wrote:Now really is the time to (1)refer to the George W administration. Things were exactly as you suggest under his leadership. They only tagged terrorists and Muslims suspected of terror ties back then. (2) Now they 'data mine' everybody's every call and every online key stroke.
And, as to the bolded. Of course they will bother you. This administration already has been proven to have used the power of the federal government to unfairly win a second term and political opposites of liberals have been targeted by the IRS, EPA, OSHA and likely the DOJ, among others. All of which is intended to discourage free speech and honest elections. You're good with all of that no doubt because, like I have said, democrats would vote for the devil if he ran as a democrat.
Ironically, Satan will ultimately appoint his man to run things as soon as the evils of data mining reach their ultimate ends. Nothing will be private. All any government official will have to do is type in your name, your phone number, your address, or your social security number and volumes of your personal info (all of it actually) will be instantly laid out before some government agent's prying eyes. You will have no secrets at all, zero as you like to say. When there are no more secrets, there will be no more privacy. Government therefore, will rule with absolute power. And, as the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Thus, when at some point, everybody has to receive "the mark" in order to take part in any commerce, or worse, avoid being branded a criminal or enemy of the state. Maybe then, your eyes will open. Information is power, and when government holds all the cards men's freedoms will be completely gone.
1) Exactly what they do now.
2) False.
vector Wrote:Obama your president boy get over it
You are right, Obama is my president. At least I was smart enough not to vote for a man bent on stripping us of our constitutional rights. Like TRT, I am beginning to believe that your dumbass act is not an act at all.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Unless you are a terrorist or are supporting terrorists, then how will the federal government analyzing your phone logs and geolocation data help prevent any deaths at the hands of terrorists?
If our federal government had any interest in securing the borders, then it would not need to spend $80 billion a year collecting data on American citizens. As for saving lives, how many American lives must be saved at the cost of losing your constitutional rights to a totalitarian regime that selectively enforces our laws?
When people like you say that they are willing to trade constitutional rights in exchange for what Obama claims will save lives, you dishonor all the people who have courageously fought and died for more than 200 years to protect those rights and you dishonor the brave men and women who continue that fight today.
Obama had a chance to save four American lives in Benghazi and he passed. When you elect and appoint corrupt politicians to run the government, then the less information that they have in their possession, the better.
Dr. Susan Rice, the same person who appeared on five talk shows in a single day to blame the deaths in Benghazi on a You Tube video, will soon be taking over as Obama's National Security Advisor. Throughout history, politicians have used foreign threats to justify grabbing more power for themselves. If you trust these people to look out for your best interests, then you are a fool.
Appointing Susan Rice as NSA is one of President Obama's worst moves as President I think. She couldn't even do her job as UN Ambassador with multiple screw ups, how the heck does anyone think she is qualified to be National Security Advisor, which is one of the toughest jobs in Washington?!
TheRealVille Wrote:1) Exactly what they do now.
2) False.
We may know the truth soon. The man responsible for leaking the details of the NSA program is holed up in Hong Kong and he has identified himself. Unlike you or me, he was in position to know exactly what was going on within the PRISM program. I guess Obama's decision to launch a criminal investigation of the NSA leaks will not be necessary after all. It is a shame that news like this seems to appear first in foreign newspapers ever since Obama took office.
vundy33 Wrote:Appointing Susan Rice as NSA is one of President Obama's worst moves as President I think. She couldn't even do her job as UN Ambassador with multiple screw ups, how the heck does anyone think she is qualified to be National Security Advisor, which is one of the toughest jobs in Washington?!
I am no fan of Susan Rice and I agree, but she was just following Obama's orders. Her mission was to give Obama plausible deniability in case the You Tube video fabrication did not stick. Hillary Clinton wanted to lay low to preserve her political viability for a 2016 run at the presidency. Obama could not risk sending Petraeus to the talk shows because he disagreed with the decision to deceive the country for political reasons and Petraeus seems to still have a conscience.
Naming Rice as NSA solves a lot of problems for Obama. She is not subject to Senate confirmation and it will make it more difficult for Republicans to get her under oath to testify before any committees. Obama will order her not to appear and claim executive privilege. He should be able to play stall ball until after the 2014 elections.
I don't think that Obama and most members of Congress are very concerned with national security at all. Another terrorist attack would just give the federal government further justification to grab more unchecked power. It is a vicious cycle.
vundy33 Wrote:I don't see how we can rip a Democrat President so bad for this, when it was a Rupublican that opened the door for all of this too happen.
fox news it's got there brain wash
vundy33 Wrote:I don't see how we can rip a Democrat President so bad for this, when it was a Rupublican that opened the door for all of this too happen.
Why not? Obama renewed the authorization for the Patriot Act and has expanded the program. Besides, as Americans, we can rip both Obama and Bush for what is being done, as well as all of the members of Congress who knew what was going on. It makes no sense not to criticize the current administration because the roots of PRISM took hold in a previous administration.
Obama ran on a transparent government program, and no administration since Nixon has been less transparent with its operations. No administration in history has claimed ignorance as a defense for wrongdoing and incompetence so many times. The buck never lands on Obama's desk.
vundy33 Wrote:I don't see how we can rip a Democrat President so bad for this, when it was a Rupublican that opened the door for all of this too happen.
Most conservatives have "ripped" Bush, his admin and congress for creating one of the biggest expansion of government (homeland security) in a long time. I must admit I was a bit behind in the criticism, I must not have been paying close attention at the time and the emotions of 9/11 had me somewhat fogged up.
See, there's the difference...we know it was a bloated under Bush and we can admit it. We now know its bloated to the edge of splitting at the seams under the current admin and we'd like to see it scaled back. Others (liberals) on here refuse to point out the mistakes made by democrats and STILL want to point fingers at Bush...quite childish, huh?
SKINNYPIG Wrote:Most conservatives have "ripped" Bush, his admin and congress for creating one of the biggest expansion of government (homeland security) in a long time. I must admit I was a bit behind in the criticism, I must not have been paying close attention at the time and the emotions of 9/11 had me somewhat fogged up.
See, there's the difference...we know it was a bloated under Bush and we can admit it. We now know its bloated to the edge of splitting at the seams under the current admin and we'd like to see it scaled back. Others (liberals) on here refuse to point out the mistakes made by democrats and STILL want to point fingers at Bush...quite childish, huh?
You didn't admit it when he was in office. It must be easier now. It's getting better now, unlike what it was under Bush. The deficit is shrinking. The economy is growing. What more do you want? I know, "the black man out of office".
vector Wrote:fox news it's got there brain wash
and just what got you brain wash...Jackass!
Sorry about that "jackass" thing. I was going to delete it but I thought an apology would be better.
TheRealVille Wrote:You didn't admit it when he was in office. It must be easier now. It's getting better now, unlike what it was under Bush. The deficit is shrinking.
I actually did. Like I said, it took a while to sink in but, it did. It should never have been enacted then, and it shouldn't be now.
I don't trust GW, BHO, congress OR any other division of government with that kind of power. Do you?
The deficit? Who's talking about the deficit in this thread?
I was obviously referring to Republicans who act like it was ok when President Bush introduced all of this, but when a Democrat is in office, they act like it's the biggest scandal ever. It's a double standard for the sake of politics. I think both administrations should be criticized for their part. I'm an Equal Oppurtunity criticizer, hahaha.
The Bush Administration for taking advantage of the post-9/11 panic, and the Obama administration for continuing it after preaching "transparency".
Terrorist plots will be made no matter what we do, and we should try our best to prevent them. But not using the same techniques we use on terrorists and criminals worldwide.
Even in Afghan we use this type of surveillance. We had to provide security for a few spooks doing it...they brought a device about the size of a suitcase or backpack, and set up within a few hundred yards of a cell tower. What the device did was trick cell phones into thinking they were connecting to the cell tower, when in reality they were going through the device, then connecting. This helped us find coordinates of bad guys to go and find, while also being used to pretty much simultaneously cut off all signal to all cell phones in the area...which rendered remote-detonated IEDs, with a cell phone signal of course, useless.
Every type of intel from those ops over these two wars was useful, and there's been many uses for that type of signals intelligence, just like always. But this is America, we're not fighting a war here. When our call records, text, emails, or anything else is being indiscriminately submitted to the government as part of a domestic spying program, something is bad wrong. I don't care if its info about what type of girl I prefer, my favorite cut of steak, or my shoe size...the cons will always outweigh the pros.
I tend to place more blame on the administration that started the process. I have much, much more respect for Pres Bush than I have for Pres Obama, and like him much better as well, but I can't talk go off on this administration alone without feeling like a hypocrite. I've noticed so many republicans on different news networks, in my favorite papers and websites, absolutely acting like this is the end of the world and Pres Obama has some evil plan...they easily forget to mention who started this in the first place. It's not about placing blame or anything like that, I'm a republican myself, we all know this...it's about accountability, and I can't just run with an argument just because it makes my party look better and the opposition look worse. That's the exact type of politics I hate.
SKINNYPIG Wrote:Most conservatives have "ripped" Bush, his admin and congress for creating one of the biggest expansion of government (homeland security) in a long time. I must admit I was a bit behind in the criticism, I must not have been paying close attention at the time and the emotions of 9/11 had me somewhat fogged up.
See, there's the difference...we know it was a bloated under Bush and we can admit it. We now know its bloated to the edge of splitting at the seams under the current admin and we'd like to see it scaled back. Others (liberals) on here refuse to point out the mistakes made by democrats and STILL want to point fingers at Bush...quite childish, huh?
If only all could actually admit it, lol.
Personally, I couldn't care less if the opposition admits their mistakes or not...if they don't, that makes them trash in my eyes and that's it. I'm not going to be stubborn and stoop to their level, like a ton of our people do, just because the opposition did.
SKINNYPIG Wrote:I actually did. Like I said, it took a while to sink in but, it did. It should never have been enacted then, and it shouldn't be now.
I don't trust GW, BHO, congress OR any other division of government with that kind of power. Do you?
The deficit? Who's talking about the deficit in this thread?
I must have taken the bloated comment wrong.
TheRealVille Wrote:I must have taken the bloated comment wrong.
The "bloated" was aimed at the Patriot Act/Homeland Security. It was a big mistake and getting bigger by the day.
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