What do you think In order, it takes for a school to be successful.. I am just wanting some opinions , should be a good topic.
1. Location
2. Size of school
3. Athletic support
4. Good coach and assistants.
5. You can only say recruiting if your school is private or the new TYPE of private schools, dang independents. lol
It varies from school to school, but I would say having a good relationship with the other sports in the school helps a ton
Since '98. There have been 144 schools play in football state championship games…., ALL but 20 of them have fallen within one and/or all of the following categories:
1) Independent
2) Private
3) Following areas:
· Jefferson
· Fayette
· NKY (Kenton, Boone and Campbell Counties)
· Warren County
· Daviess County (Owensboro)
· Hardin County
· Christian County
· Scott County (borders Fayette)
· Shelby (borders Jefferson)
· Bullitt County (borders Jefferson)
· Pike County
· McCracken
***That’s 87% of the teams who play for all the marbles coming from one or mix of the above***
******Ironically…..13 of those 14 counties listed above are in the TOP 20 Most Populated Counties in KY…the one that isn’t? Shelby County(Collins in '12) and they are pushing the envelope. Play the game in the link and see for yourself…….
http://www.sporcle.com/games/Patricknodd...f-kentucky *******
Of the 20 schools that AREN’T in one of these categories…..Boyle County has 8 of those appearances. The other 12?
· Hancock County in ‘99 (had Mr. Football, Travis Atwell)
· Caldwell County (twice, counting this year…in ’98, their QB and RB both went to Murray….their QB was OVC Frosh of the Year in ’99..Stuart Childress, and this year they have a Sophomore QB that will probably be able to go anywhere he wants in 2 years)
· Breathitt County (’02 and ’08)
· Rockcastle ( ’01 and ’02)
· Anderson County (’11)
· Prestonsburg (’01)
· Bell County (’08)
· Mercer (’06)
· Allen County-Scottsville (’10)
· Franklin-Simpson (’11)
In my honest opinion as well, Soccer has greatly put a damper in many foootball programs across the state. Especially 1A Independent schools and/or Rural, "County" schools that lack in size, as well (let's say 3A or less).
Why? Those school(s) talent pools are already spread thin as is. 1A schools, it is what it is, especially your lower end 1A schools. And, with many of your rural/"county" schools, it's hard enough to get participation from boys who are further than lets say 6+ miles (or 10 minutes) from the school. Now you throw in soccer, and that dips into the small talent pool (usually in the area in or around the county seat) that some have to draw from as is.
Case in point above. Beechwood and Painstville. Both have great, longstanding traditions in football, yes? Well, in the last 10 years, one of them has kept on keeping on, while the other has fallen off dramatically. One of them has adopted soccer, the other hasn't. I'll let someone else fill in the blanks there.
Good research duck.
Not a lot of people are willing to say it, but the fact is theres just more talent in those counties on an annual basis. The black population is also higher. I dont care to say it, SPEED KILLS, and theres more of it there. Now, just because its there doesnt mean theres an "unfair advantage". It's still kids playing kids, and you'll see that in any state you go to.
As far as the programs priority list.....
1. Feeder Programs. It's HIGHLY important that kids start playing and learning some type of the high school offense so by the time they are there, it comes natural to them. Its extremely difficult in a schools system like Whitley, where there are 6 different elementary programs and the kids dont start really playing together until middle school. However, elementary and middle school wins should be sacrificed for the better good of the high school programs. Learn them early, learn them quick.
2. Support!
You have to make it mean something. Kids from an early age should see the prestige of playing for a program like yours. It should be like you see in the movies. It should be there all time goal, and thats to start and play for there local high school and succeed at it.
3. Coaches.
All the coaches from 3rd grade threw the high school coach need to be on the same page. Its to important that they not get sick of certain coaches and be encouraged to play. Never talked down to, just talked at. They will learn over time that authority is the figure and it will also help them in life, which is the number one purpose of athletics.
4. NUMBERS.
You could have 11 of the best players in the state, and when they face 111 of pretty good players, they'll get beat every time. If i were a new coach id start over from scratch. Id ask to speak to the entire student body of boys and ask them to atleast come out and try it and for them to know that at any time there will be noone making fun of them and or trying to kill them on the field. Being fresh in the 4th quarter is the key to winning in the playoffs.
5. Strength/Speed Conditioning.
Football is a year around sport. It takes a lot for kids to give up there entire high school life to commit to something they may not even want to do or may never see the field. Its important that theres is a coach, atleast 2 that excel in making players bigger, faster, and stronger. Its to important to not do and you can really see it on the field when teams are overmatched.
Start from the bottom up and you'll never go wrong.
Teach em early, keep em spirited, and let them know there doing something that means something.
You said it with the african american population being higher as well. You're exactly right. It matters, especially if you are having to compete against schools with black athletes. If you aren't, then it doesnt matter so much.
Also, I was talking with a good friend of mine and he had an interesting criteria of factors that help seperate the "haves, from the have nots". And, it goes as follows (yes, there are exceptions to every rule), but the criteria goes as follows; the more of the following that you have AGAINST you, the harder it is:
1) Size of school (3A or smaller)
2) Soccer
3) "County"/rural school (non Independent) or in an area of <25,000 people
4) Large/Successfull band (not that football loses many kids to band, but for some reason, you just don
t see smaller schools that are adequately able to support both)
5) FFA
6) Black Athletes (lack of)
Personally, I think these factors above and my orignal post have a lot more to do with the rhyme to the reason(s) before anything else does.
The more of these that you have
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Good research duck.
Not a lot of people are willing to say it, but the fact is theres just more talent in those counties on an annual basis. The black population is also higher. I dont care to say it, SPEED KILLS, and theres more of it there. Now, just because its there doesnt mean theres an "unfair advantage". It's still kids playing kids, and you'll see that in any state you go to.
As far as the programs priority list.....
1. Feeder Programs. It's HIGHLY important that kids start playing and learning some type of the high school offense so by the time they are there, it comes natural to them. Its extremely difficult in a schools system like Whitley, where there are 6 different elementary programs and the kids dont start really playing together until middle school. However, elementary and middle school wins should be sacrificed for the better good of the high school programs. Learn them early, learn them quick.
2. Support!
You have to make it mean something. Kids from an early age should see the prestige of playing for a program like yours. It should be like you see in the movies. It should be there all time goal, and thats to start and play for there local high school and succeed at it.
3. Coaches.
All the coaches from 3rd grade threw the high school coach need to be on the same page. Its to important that they not get sick of certain coaches and be encouraged to play. Never talked down to, just talked at. They will learn over time that authority is the figure and it will also help them in life, which is the number one purpose of athletics.
4. NUMBERS.
You could have 11 of the best players in the state, and when they face 111 of pretty good players, they'll get beat every time. If i were a new coach id start over from scratch. Id ask to speak to the entire student body of boys and ask them to atleast come out and try it and for them to know that at any time there will be noone making fun of them and or trying to kill them on the field. Being fresh in the 4th quarter is the key to winning in the playoffs.
5. Strength/Speed Conditioning.
Football is a year around sport. It takes a lot for kids to give up there entire high school life to commit to something they may not even want to do or may never see the field. Its important that theres is a coach, atleast 2 that excel in making players bigger, faster, and stronger. Its to important to not do and you can really see it on the field when teams are overmatched.
Start from the bottom up and you'll never go wrong.
Teach em early, keep em spirited, and let them know there doing something that means something.
I don't always agree with riutg but when I do it looks like this! :Thumbs:
Totally agree with your entire post riutg!!!!
Fly Like a Duck Wrote:You said it with the african american population being higher as well. You're exactly right. It matters, especially if you are having to compete against schools with black athletes. If you aren't, then it doesnt matter so much.
Also, I was talking with a good friend of mine and he had an interesting criteria of factors that help seperate the "haves, from the have nots". And, it goes as follows (yes, there are exceptions to every rule), but the criteria goes as follows; the more of the following that you have AGAINST you, the harder it is:
1) Size of school (3A or smaller)
2) Soccer
3) "County"/rural school (non Independent) or in an area of <25,000 people
4) Large/Successfull band (not that football loses many kids to band, but for some reason, you just don
t see smaller schools that are adequately able to support both)
5) FFA
6) Black Athletes (lack of)
Personally, I think these factors above and my orignal post have a lot more to do with the rhyme to the reason(s) before anything else does.
The more of these that you have
Up until about 6 years ago Highlands had 0% black students in the school. Now it is probably less than 1% in the school and on the football team. I do not think it has hurt Highlands over the 5-6 decades!
Spare us the racist comments.
Simple talk, real talk.
It makes a slight difference and significantly helps out inner city teams.
Highlands probabaly got scared from doing it when they brought Mitchell in from Cov Cath
nicker: That worked out well.
How's that worked out for Holmes, or Newport?
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Spare us the racist comments.
Simple talk, real talk.
It makes a slight difference and significantly helps out inner city teams.
Highlands probabaly got scared from doing it when they brought Mitchell in from Cov Cath nicker: That worked out well.
No racist comments! Just stating the facts,I am not the one who said you can't win with out black athletes! I am acctually surprised Highlands does not have more Black students. If I was living in HUD housing in Newport,Holmes district and had kids, I would want better for my kids and move to FT Thomas so they could go to a better school district for academics and sports(Yes, there is HUD housing in FT Thomas, so it would cost them no more to live there).
In the Mitchell case, it was his parents who brought him to Highlands. It put Highlands between a rock and a hard place when the courts and KHSAA could not agree on if he should play or not. I give his parents credit for doing what they thought was best for him(I heard he was really treated bad and unfair at CCH so his parents brought him to HHS,A kid/family does not like a school and decides it is not for him and chooses to go to another school and so everyone thinks he was recruited to the new school. I never heard one Cov Cath fan state HHS recruited him,because they know it is not true ), but I also believe they skirted the rules with their offical residence. However, that is not Highlands fault,they went by court orders.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Spare us the racist comments.
Simple talk, real talk.
It makes a slight difference and significantly helps out inner city teams.
Highlands probabaly got scared from doing it when they brought Mitchell in from Cov Cath nicker: That worked out well.
It's not the lack of African American athletes that hurts the eastern Ky. schools. It's the offense systems they run and the type of off season workouts they conduct in order to run those systems. If you watch enough of the eastern Ky schools, it's readily apparent that more time is spent on increasing strength than is spent on improving speed and quickness. They have big, strong linemen and Lbers. But they are too slow to play in space and can't maintain blocks long enough. Big and strong works fine when playing other similarly oriented schools but fails when faced with teams that have quickness and speed. And it's not just African American athletes that have speed and quickness. See Highlands.
Sorry if I've offended, but that's how I see it.
charlie22 Wrote:It's not the lack of African American athletes that hurts the eastern Ky. schools. It's the offense systems they run and the type of off season workouts they conduct in order to run those systems. If you watch enough of the eastern Ky schools, it's readily apparent that more time is spent on increasing strength than is spent on improving speed and quickness. They have big, strong linemen and Lbers. But they are too slow to play in space and can't maintain blocks long enough. Big and strong works fine when playing other similarly oriented schools but fails when faced with teams that have quickness and speed. And it's not just African American athletes that have speed and quickness. See Highlands.
Sorry if I've offended, but that's how I see it.
Why do you not see more white guys on the best 4x100 relay teams? Why are the best college football teams dominated by black kids in the skill positions?
Let me ask you this, how many places in KY have you lived? Or better yet (assuming here from your post), have you ever lived out of the EKY area? Just an honest question.
As far as Highlands goes, like it or not, they don't have many kids on their team who come from down on the farm or back in the holler and have parents/relatives who haven't ever picked up a ball, let a lone a football.
There isn't an offseason work out regime in the world that can turn thick ankles into skinny ones. Sorry.
nky Wrote:How's that worked out for Holmes, or Newport?
I'm not one to ever get on here and 2nd guess coaches or say somebody(s) is a bad coach or not, but, Newport in the late 90's/early 2000's...then, with Schlarman in the mid 2000's won some games. When a good coach was in place. They did well.
Holmes is one of those exceptions against the rule, to some extent, Vandemeer and Lickert had some 8, 9, 10 win seasons.
Fly Like a Duck Wrote:Why do you not see more white guys on the best 4x100 relay teams? Why are the best college football teams dominated by black kids in the skill positions?
Let me ask you this, how many places in KY have you lived? Or better yet (assuming here from your post), have you ever lived out of the EKY area? Just an honest question.
As far as Highlands goes, like it or not, they don't have many kids on their team who come from down on the farm or back in the holler and have parents/relatives who haven't ever picked up a ball, let a lone a football.
There isn't an offseason work out regime in the world that can turn thick ankles into skinny ones. Sorry.
Track speed is completely different than football speed;very few college football players could be top college sprinters. If you have 5 guys on a HS football fiield who can run a 4.4 to 4.6, you have more speed than most teams,Highlands very often does have that many kids or more on the field (this is not what I would call fast track speed,but is very very good for football). Too many people think you need to have 4.3 speed to be good. When Collinsworth was at HHS he had 4.5 to 4.6 speed but was one of the best RB's I have seen go through HHS.
Just because the are from the "holler" does not mean they can't be just as good of athlete. If they started playing young like HHS kids do then they too might be state champions, it takes a lot of work and dedication.
I think you might be doing the wrong workouts,because I have seen some kids from HHS turn from out of shape chubby kids as freshmen to very cut kids JR and SR year. And Charlie is from NKY not EKY.
sstack Wrote:Track speed is completely different than football speed;very few college football players could be top college sprinters. If you have 5 guys on a HS football fiield who can run a 4.4 to 4.6, you have more speed than most teams,Highlands very often does have that many kids or more on the field (this is not what I would call fast track speed,but is very very good for football). Too many people think you need to have 4.3 speed to be good. When Collinsworth was at HHS he had 4.5 to 4.6 speed but was one of the best RB's I have seen go through HHS.
Just because the are from the "holler" does not mean they can't be just as good of athlete. If they started playing young like HHS kids do then they too might be state champions, it takes a lot of work and dedication.
I think you might be doing the wrong workouts,because I have seen some kids from HHS turn from out of shape chubby kids as freshmen to very cut kids JR and SR year. And Charlie is from NKY not EKY.
1) Nobody is talking 4.3 speed. The only reason I used the 4x100 relay teams was soley for who is faster on average. I see you failed to answer why it's the case that most of Alabama (and, most all major football schools) skill kids. As a matter of fact, I roll my eyes at people on here who say that "Johnny" runs a 4.2-4.4. Are there some legit 4.4's (and, by legit, I mean laser/electronic timed)? Sure. James Quick is one of those and I'm sure, while he has great speed, is pushing more towards the 4.45-4.5 than 4.40-4.5.
2) Just because they come from unathletic parents, there are SOME exceptions to the rule (not insinuating that all people living in a holler or on the farm are unathletic, but the numbers show that your best football programs don't come from extremely rural communities, either. It's all about what's valued. Fact is, football, nor athletics in general aren't viewed in extreme rural communities like they are within the suburbs. Try to slice that however you may to fit your argument, but it's fact)
3) Nobody is talking chubby and turning them into skinny. I didnt think you would get my "ankles" joke. I was a chubby kid turned lean, too. I know many lean looking people who have thick(er) ankles and many a heavy kid with little ankles. Thick ankles= slow, not very good feet. There is a ceiling on those kids. Can they get better, sure. Is their ceiling a little bit shorter? Dang right.
(just bc you are heavier doesn't mean you can't have little ankles and/or good feet, many GOOD college linemen and all NFL linemen are proof of this. Being big is one thing. Being strong is another. Having great feet, though is what sets them apart..not if they are "cut".)
sstack Wrote:No racist comments! Just stating the facts,I am not the one who said you can't win with out black athletes! I am acctually surprised Highlands does not have more Black students. If I was living in HUD housing in Newport,Holmes district and had kids, I would want better for my kids and move to FT Thomas so they could go to a better school district for academics and sports(Yes, there is HUD housing in FT Thomas, so it would cost them no more to live there).
In the Mitchell case, it was his parents who brought him to Highlands. It put Highlands between a rock and a hard place when the courts and KHSAA could not agree on if he should play or not. I give his parents credit for doing what they thought was best for him(I heard he was really treated bad and unfair at CCH so his parents brought him to HHS,A kid/family does not like a school and decides it is not for him and chooses to go to another school and so everyone thinks he was recruited to the new school. I never heard one Cov Cath fan state HHS recruited him,because they know it is not true ), but I also believe they skirted the rules with their offical residence. However, that is not Highlands fault,they went by court orders.
I never said you couldnt win without black athletes either!
Its just like politics, you say something about it, and people go crazy.
ALL I SAID was speed kills!
You cant teach speed nor can develop speed, its God given. Football speed is different than track speed and you just dont see that in Southern and Eastern Ky period!
The Mitchell joke was sarcasm.
charlie22 Wrote:It's not the lack of African American athletes that hurts the eastern Ky. schools. It's the offense systems they run and the type of off season workouts they conduct in order to run those systems. If you watch enough of the eastern Ky schools, it's readily apparent that more time is spent on increasing strength than is spent on improving speed and quickness. They have big, strong linemen and Lbers. But they are too slow to play in space and can't maintain blocks long enough. Big and strong works fine when playing other similarly oriented schools but fails when faced with teams that have quickness and speed. And it's not just African American athletes that have speed and quickness. See Highlands.
Sorry if I've offended, but that's how I see it.
Highlands usually has decent speed, but more importantly, they have all of the things i listed to a T. Thats why they win. Im not disagreeing with your post. However, you can bring in some of the best speed coaches in the world and your not going to make Billy Bob run any faster. He wasn't shown that a young age and knew what to work on his whole way threw school like you are with Highlands, (see my number 1) and you cant expect to win by taking frosh kids and have them just start learning different things to do.
The biggest problem with EKY schools is that the game has passed a lot of these coached up. Two many still believe you can run the ball 9 out of 10 plays and expect defenses to not know what your doing and then have your defense set up to stop the run. It just doesnt work like that.
Highlands IMO should be the model school when looking at developing players. Its obvious Highlands wins without all the talent some years by doing the things i listed.
sstack Wrote:Track speed is completely different than football speed;very few college football players could be top college sprinters. If you have 5 guys on a HS football fiield who can run a 4.4 to 4.6, you have more speed than most teams,Highlands very often does have that many kids or more on the field (this is not what I would call fast track speed,but is very very good for football). Too many people think you need to have 4.3 speed to be good. When Collinsworth was at HHS he had 4.5 to 4.6 speed but was one of the best RB's I have seen go through HHS.
Just because the are from the "holler" does not mean they can't be just as good of athlete. If they started playing young like HHS kids do then they too might be state champions, it takes a lot of work and dedication.
I think you might be doing the wrong workouts,because I have seen some kids from HHS turn from out of shape chubby kids as freshmen to very cut kids JR and SR year. And Charlie is from NKY not EKY.
It takes a lot more than that. Highlands, and you might roll your eyes at this comment, but while I love everything about what their program and community stand for; isn't the only program that has their youth league start at age 5-6 (or in that range give or take a year).
Bottom line is this, IMHO, (and I feel that I can say this bc I've grown up, lived and/or worked vast areas of different demographic factors; urban, rural, majority white, 50/50 black white, large amount of single family homes, majority two parent homes and both WORK, low income, high income, middle of the road, etc) I just feel that there is much more that lays the foundation of the have and the have nots, the will and the wont's, in Kentucky High School Football (and, anywhere for that matter) than just "hard work". It's not just football, but everything in life.
Not sure if you are a Jimmy Buffett fan or not, but he sums it up best on how I feel with a phrase in his song, "Permanent Reminder of Temporary Feeling"..."it's not their fault, they can't change their DNA."
I can't say this enough, either, but I love everything about Highlands. Matter of fact, I love everything about T and X.
While many schools across the state can't, nor will ever reach the level of Highlands (or X and T), they can at least try to model themselves after those programs. That ceiling for improvement like I talked about is still shorter for some places (do to, well, I think we have covered all of the various factors), but some still fall way short of that ceiling due to the fact that they just aren't sold out to the program (admin, community, parents, players, everybody).
On a side note, I read a short article the other day by Mike Belotti (AD at Oregon), talking about what made Chip Kelly such a good coach, and why Oregon had the success under him that they did.
And, I'm soooooo glad he made this comment, bc there are many that DON'T believe this, b I'm not in that party, but he said the reason why he and other great coaches out there have success is simple. "They are great at X's and O's and have the talent to do something." And, THAT is really in truly all that matters when it gets down to it.
Fly Like a Duck Wrote:1) Nobody is talking 4.3 speed. The only reason I used the 4x100 relay teams was soley for who is faster on average. I see you failed to answer why it's the case that most of Alabama (and, most all major football schools) skill kids. As a matter of fact, I roll my eyes at people on here who say that "Johnny" runs a 4.2-4.4. Are there some legit 4.4's (and, by legit, I mean laser/electronic timed)? Sure. James Quick is one of those and I'm sure, while he has great speed, is pushing more towards the 4.45-4.5 than 4.40-4.5.
2) Just because they come from unathletic parents, there are SOME exceptions to the rule (not insinuating that all people living in a holler or on the farm are unathletic, but the numbers show that your best football programs don't come from extremely rural communities, either. It's all about what's valued. Fact is, football, nor athletics in general aren't viewed in extreme rural communities like they are within the suburbs. Try to slice that however you may to fit your argument, but it's fact)
3) Nobody is talking chubby and turning them into skinny. I didnt think you would get my "ankles" joke. I was a chubby kid turned lean, too. I know many lean looking people who have thick(er) ankles and many a heavy kid with little ankles. Thick ankles= slow, not very good feet. There is a ceiling on those kids. Can they get better, sure. Is their ceiling a little bit shorter? Dang right.
(just bc you are heavier doesn't mean you can't have little ankles and/or good feet, many GOOD college linemen and all NFL linemen are proof of this. Being big is one thing. Being strong is another. Having great feet, though is what sets them apart..not if they are "cut".)
To answer you first question; when you go from HS to college you really cut down on the number of kids playing and yes a lot of the top skill players are black. But in HS, a team like Highlands does not have the D1 players but very good speed to win at the HS level.When going from HS to college to NFL you are taking the best of the best.
In response to you 2 statement; I tend to agree. Highlands does have the advantage of having 2nd,3rd, and 4th generation players of good athletes. Genes play a big part of their success.(contrary to what much of the state thinks is illegal recuiting).A lot of people who grow up in Ft Thomas move back to raise family here and continue the pipeline of good athletes.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:I never said you couldnt win without black athletes either!
Its just like politics, you say something about it, and people go crazy.
ALL I SAID was speed kills!
You cant teach speed nor can develop speed, its God given. Football speed is different than track speed and you just dont see that in Southern and Eastern Ky period!
The Mitchell joke was sarcasm.
I know it was sarcasm, but so many people still want to believe HHS recruited him and it gets old. The kid was unhappy at Cov Cath (from what I heard I do not blame him from leaving) and he and his family chose to leave and go to HHS. Like I said, I think his family skirted the rules with renting a place in Ft Thomas and still keeping their home in Florence,but HHS followed the court rules. The problem is KHSAA needs to make quicker decisions instead of waiting to end of season when a kid has played in 10 games already. It is funny how their is talk of a QB transfering to KC and nobody brings up recruiting,but if it was a player transfering to Highlands or Trinity the post would light up with talk of recruiting.I guess that is always going to come with being a top team and you have to learn to live with it.
Fly Like a Duck Wrote:I can't say this enough, either, but I love everything about Highlands. Matter of fact, I love everything about T and X.
While many schools across the state can't, nor will ever reach the level of Highlands (or X and T), they can at least try to model themselves after those programs. That ceiling for improvement like I talked about is still shorter for some places (do to, well, I think we have covered all of the various factors), but some still fall way short of that ceiling due to the fact that they just aren't sold out to the program (admin, community, parents, players, everybody).
You hit the nail on the head. It has to be very important for all the groups you mentioned.
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Highlands usually has decent speed, but more importantly, they have all of the things i listed to a T. Thats why they win. Im not disagreeing with your post. However, you can bring in some of the best speed coaches in the world and your not going to make Billy Bob run any faster. He wasn't shown that a young age and knew what to work on his whole way threw school like you are with Highlands, (see my number 1) and you cant expect to win by taking frosh kids and have them just start learning different things to do.
The biggest problem with EKY schools is that the game has passed a lot of these coached up. Two many still believe you can run the ball 9 out of 10 plays and expect defenses to not know what your doing and then have your defense set up to stop the run. It just doesnt work like that.
Highlands IMO should be the model school when looking at developing players. Its obvious Highlands wins without all the talent some years by doing the things i listed.
Thanks for saying the nice things about Highlands and I agree with a lot of things you stated. But I disagree with you about not being able to develop or improve speed (and quickness, which is more important than true speed in my opinion particularly for linemen, whom more than the "skilled players" determine the outcome of almost every game). Take a 300 pound O lineman who spends a whole lot of time working on his bench press, cleans and squats, and have him lose 50 pounds by spending more time running and working on footwork drills, and he will become faster and quicker than he was. I'd call that developing and improving the kid's speed.
sstack is right on point about how a whole lot of Highlands kids changed from chubby, slow frosh to fast, quick juniors and seniors. My oldest son was one of those Highlands players (I'm not from eastern Kentucky). I've probably mentioned this before, but as a sophomore, he was a slow, heavy O linemen. But as a result of him completely buying into Highlands off season conditioning (and working out with a former NFL buddy of mine on the "off" days), he lost a whole lot of fat and weight, got in great shape and he became much quicker AND faster than he was when he was heavy. He changed from a kid that the Highlands coaches never thought would be a varsity player for Highlands (and yes they told me that) to a starter on the O line his junior year. He became very fast and quick for an O lineman and was able to block and maintain blocks on fast Lbers. In his second varsity start, he had an outstanding game blocking an African American LBer for Colerain that received a scholarship to a Big 10 school. My son is a Caucasian by the way. His transformation was not an aberration, as I've seen many, many Highlands kids do the same thing he did. I'll agree that a lot of the other factors you mentioned played a huge role in the dedication it took for him to transform his body.
The point I'm attempting to make is that the lack of success of eastern Ky schools in winning state championships has little to nothing to do with the lack of African American athletes in eastern Kentucky. It does have a lot to do with the style of play of a lot of eastern Ky schools and the type of off season conditioning and lifting being done to foster that style of play.
1. Athletes
2. Continuity with the feeder program
3. Athletes
4. Good coaches (Both X's & O's and strength/conditioning)
5. Athletes
6. Support from the administration
7. Athletes
8. Support from parents and the community
9. $$$ It helps to have a booster program or school that can support the things needed for a quality program.
10. And yes you guessed it athletes. In high school it helps to have the better jimmys and joes than the other guy. You can't just look at how they did in middle school which some do because kids mature at different rates, but you need kids that are taught to focus on fundamentals and technique early instead of winning and they become winners in high school.
charlie22 Wrote:Thanks for saying the nice things about Highlands and I agree with a lot of things you stated. But I disagree with you about not being able to develop or improve speed (and quickness, which is more important than true speed in my opinion particularly for linemen, whom more than the "skilled players" determine the outcome of almost every game). Take a 300 pound O lineman who spends a whole lot of time working on his bench press, cleans and squats, and have him lose 50 pounds by spending more time running and working on footwork drills, and he will become faster and quicker than he was. I'd call that developing and improving the kid's speed.
sstack is right on point about how a whole lot of Highlands kids changed from chubby, slow frosh to fast, quick juniors and seniors. My oldest son was one of those Highlands players (I'm not from eastern Kentucky). I've probably mentioned this before, but as a sophomore, he was a slow, heavy O linemen. But as a result of him completely buying into Highlands off season conditioning (and working out with a former NFL buddy of mine on the "off" days), he lost a whole lot of fat and weight, got in great shape and he became much quicker AND faster than he was when he was heavy. He changed from a kid that the Highlands coaches never thought would be a varsity player for Highlands (and yes they told me that) to a starter on the O line his junior year. He became very fast and quick for an O lineman and was able to block and maintain blocks on fast Lbers. In his second varsity start, he had an outstanding game blocking an African American LBer for Colerain that received a scholarship to a Big 10 school. My son is a Caucasian by the way. His transformation was not an aberration, as I've seen many, many Highlands kids do the same thing he did. I'll agree that a lot of the other factors you mentioned played a huge role in the dedication it took for him to transform his body.
The point I'm attempting to make is that the lack of success of eastern Ky schools in winning state championships has little to nothing to do with the lack of African American athletes in eastern Kentucky. It does have a lot to do with the style of play of a lot of eastern Ky schools and the type of off season conditioning and lifting being done to foster that style of play.
I cant disagree with you, but in most schools around Eastern Ky, you'd be hard pressed to find any coaches who know how to develop speed out of a player. And the ones who do, obviously dont want to move here.
The one thing i believe a lot of schools need to realize is that speed is the number one thing in todays high school game. You can beat a team on that alone. To many EKY schools are hung up on getting there players to bench and squat as much as possible, when in reality, the players would be better off losing weight and getting lighter on there feet so they can move faster.
The one big difference that remains is that no matter how much you improve a players speed, schools in EKY still dont have the speed that schools in NKY and Lville has. Most of your best EKY RB's wasnt necessarily fast, as far as the track is concerned, but they were very elusive and hard to tackle. However, when playing teams from around the state with speed, there just runned down on every play. A school in EKY may have 3 or 4 really fast kids who are good running the ball, but when there pass game is non existent and the other team has TEAM speed on defense, they get tracked down every time. Which is exactly what happened in the Highlands/Whitley game in 08.
I blame it all on the passing game. They need to do away with passing
nicker:
It's not a race thing
In NKY, Beechwood, NCC, Highlands, and Covcath are the top programs. Cooper, Holy Cross, Ryle, Simon Kenton, and Walton Verona have had recent success. I can count the number of arfican americans on each of those teams with one hand.
what i do notice with really good programs though is how strong the youth sports are in that area. kids are playing multiple sports against more people, instead of playing against the same kids over and over