Bluegrassrivals

I'm not making this thread to judge anybody's salvation or their relationship with God, but I look at some of the Obama supporters and how they claim to be Christians. Is it possible to follow both liberalism and Christianity? I sure don't think so. I just don't see how you can say, "I love God," and "I love Jesus Christ," and then go out and support issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc.

Now, don't get my wrong here like I am trying to be some judgmental fanatic. It's up to God as to who goes to Heaven, and who don't and not me. I screw up every day. I am an undeserving person and I feel that I have much more than I truly deserve in life because of the fact that I commit so many sins every day. There is a big difference between the action of sin and the support of sin. Even Paul said in the book of Romans, and I'm paraphrasing, that "Everything I want to do, I don't...and everything I don't want to do, I do." The verse is in Romans 7:15. I have had conversations with liberals over and over, and cannot get a clear answer to justify their support of abortion and other big issues. This is not about Obama in particular - it is about liberalism.

The person, WideRight05, is not the same that goofs around and trolls in the football threads. I really try to get some good political conversation with liberal friends, but only one that I know can have a conversation without getting emotional. He is very intelligent and a good guy to talk to. We talk about a lot of various topics and even vent frustration at our own parties from time to time. However, he does not claim to be a Christian. Every time I try to talk respectfully and get an answer from the liberal Chrsitians on this, I get a smart comment or a dodge. Liberals, I'm willing to listen to you on this. Politics aside, I want to see how you can call yourself a Christian and a liberal in the same sentence.

Wide

This statement comes to mind.

Jesus taught his followers to love even our enemies. If anyone is teaching hatred toward any group, or any people that they have identified as sinners, it is not of Christ. In fact, Jesus loved us sinners so much that He took our sins upon Himself and He died in our place.

I do not support gays nor do I care if someone chooses to be so. It does not affect me or my relationship with god.

As for abortion. It's so different. I only support abortion in terms of rape and life threatening situations. I think someone would have to live with thee choices and mistakes.

My view of liberal is much different than yours. Mine is I don't think anyone should tell another person what to do. Because everyone doesn't believe the same. Conservatives preach about keeping the governemnt out of our life's until it comes to gays and other issues they don't agree with.

I am far from a Christian. But I believe in the biblical God. Coming to terms with that will be my final judgment.

Wildcatk23 Wrote:Wide

This statement comes to mind.

Jesus taught his followers to love even our enemies. If anyone is teaching hatred toward any group, or any people that they have identified as sinners, it is not of Christ. In fact, Jesus loved us sinners so much that He took our sins upon Himself and He died in our place.

I do not support gays nor do I care if someone chooses to be so. It does not affect me or my relationship with god.

As for abortion. It's so different. I only support abortion in terms of rape and life threatening situations. I think someone would have to live with thee choices and mistakes.

My view of liberal is much different than yours. Mine is I don't think anyone should tell another person what to do. Because everyone doesn't believe the same. Conservatives preach about keeping the governemnt out of our life's until it comes to gays and other issues they don't agree with.

I am far from a Christian. But I believe in the biblical God. Coming to terms with that will be my final judgment.

Yet you support strict gun control, Liberalism of the past is dead my friend it has been replaced a contorted into a view incredibly similar to marxism. The liberals of today want more government power more spending and less individual rights. I believe the platform for you would be libertarian. Although seen as a mainly conservative platform it preaches on the virtue of self liberty and small government. You really might want to check it out before you keep supporting a side leading us to communism.

PaintsvilleTigerfan Wrote:Yet you support strict gun control, Liberalism of the past is dead my friend it has been replaced a contorted into a view incredibly similar to marxism. The liberals of today want more government power more spending and less individual rights. I believe the platform for you would be libertarian. Although seen as a mainly conservative platform it preaches on the virtue of self liberty and small government. You really might want to check it out before you keep supporting a side leading us to communism.

I dont support strict gun control. I was upset. Beyond upset actually. Over a family member getting shot in a crossfire in ohio.

No offense to you, Wide...
because this is something that Christians have struggled with forever.

But this is the school of thought that has placed Christians behind the 8-ball.
Christians are more commonly know for what they're against than what they're for anymore.
I sat at Church the other day on a Sunday morning and my stomach almost turned at our message. We had visitor's in the building that could be struggling with anything; depression, drug abuse, an abusive relationship, anything you could imagine. Can anyone guess what the message was about?

We rambled on about Harry Potter, Anne Rice novels and TV shows that you shouldn't watch. Of course, the message was met with choruses of "amens" and everyone left thinking that they had gotten something - but I was left thinking that we missed our chance.

Wildcatk23 Wrote:I dont support strict gun control. I was upset. Beyond upset actually. Over a family member getting shot in a crossfire in ohio.

You really should take a hard look at the libertarian platform then. The two party system is dividing people in a way that cant be ammended.

zaga_fan Wrote:No offense to you, Wide...
because this is something that Christians have struggled with forever.

But this is the school of thought that has placed Christians behind the 8-ball.
Christians are more commonly know for what they're against than what they're for anymore.
I sat at Church the other day on a Sunday morning and my stomach almost turned at our message. We had visitor's in the building that could be struggling with anything; depression, drug abuse, an abusive relationship, anything you could imagine. Can anyone guess what the message was about?

We rambled on about Harry Potter, Anne Rice novels and TV shows that you shouldn't watch. Of course, the message was met with choruses of "amens" and everyone left thinking that they had gotten something - but I was left thinking that we missed our chance.

Iv had trouble finding a church that preaches a message of love anymore. Iv taken to reading the bible on my own on sunday mornings and avoiding the churches.

PaintsvilleTigerfan Wrote:Iv had trouble finding a church that preaches a message of love anymore. Iv taken to reading the bible on my own on sunday mornings and avoiding the churches.

Don't get me wrong...
I believe sin and hell are two things that need to be brought up at the pulpit.

However, I don't think we're going about it the right way.

WideRight05 Wrote:I'm not making this thread to judge anybody's salvation or their relationship with God, but I look at some of the Obama supporters and how they claim to be Christians. Is it possible to follow both liberalism and Christianity? I sure don't think so. I just don't see how you can say, "I love God," and "I love Jesus Christ," and then go out and support issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc.

Now, don't get my wrong here like I am trying to be some judgmental fanatic. It's up to God as to who goes to Heaven, and who don't and not me. I screw up every day. I am an undeserving person and I feel that I have much more than I truly deserve in life because of the fact that I commit so many sins every day. There is a big difference between the action of sin and the support of sin. Even Paul said in the book of Romans, and I'm paraphrasing, that "Everything I want to do, I don't...and everything I don't want to do, I do." The verse is in Romans 7:15. I have had conversations with liberals over and over, and cannot get a clear answer to justify their support of abortion and other big issues. This is not about Obama in particular - it is about liberalism.

The person, WideRight05, is not the same that goofs around and trolls in the football threads. I really try to get some good political conversation with liberal friends, but only one that I know can have a conversation without getting emotional. He is very intelligent and a good guy to talk to. We talk about a lot of various topics and even vent frustration at our own parties from time to time. However, he does not claim to be a Christian. Every time I try to talk respectfully and get an answer from the liberal Chrsitians on this, I get a smart comment or a dodge. Liberals, I'm willing to listen to you on this. Politics aside, I want to see how you can call yourself a Christian and a liberal in the same sentence.

The liberal point of view is an alternative point of view which, is seperate, apart and in lieu of belief in God, as He describes Himself in the Holy Bible. That's why liberals always accept the theory of evolution and the big bang as fact. The very act of recognizing God requires action on the part of the one who believes in Him. To admit God is real, means one must eventually bow before Him in repentance for their sin or, face the judgement bereft of the only advocate God will recognize, that of course being the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, it is more covenient to sort of ignore Him, preferring to pretend not to notice Him.

Hence, the continual assault on traditional American values from the left. From the taking out of any mention of God from government documents (more notably the democrat party platform last October) and all forms of public address, to the wildly rebellious actions such as abortions and abortion rights, gay rights and the notions of social justice in general. Liberals want to strike any mention of God from our currency, or allow even the veiled governmental association with christianity to the point of banning nativity scenes from public property during the Christmas holiday season. One thing about all of this Orwellian purging of God from the American conscienceness which I find particularly offensive, is the fact that liberals in positions of power within various levels of state and federal government, can legally use my tax dollars to fund their assault on God and the conservative tradition which has defined our nation since it's conception.

Republicans generally represent conservatives, and democrats generally represent liberals, there inlies the rub and, the contempt. The age old struggle still rages. Man has always rebelled against God, preferring to do things his way. The dems castigate the republicans for not being willing to work together with them. The republicans, though certainly not perfect, are guilty only of trying to slow down the dems burning zeal to peg the meter to the left. In fact, republicans have bent, and it shows now as 77% of Americans are presently paying considerably higher federal taxes. The dems are the inflexible ones from where I sit. Take the ObamaCare fiasco. The birth of which, was back during the Johnson administration. Liberals decided to purchase the woes of the so-called American poor, funding their shortfalls with the tax dollars of the contributing sector of the American populace. Since that day we have fed, housed and clothed an ever increasing number of folks who lack the drive to make their own living. So government now wants to lay it's burden at our feet because one, it's too expensive for them to pay for and two, we're the only place they can turn to for money. That's all ObamaCare is, liberals in government decided to buy folks problems years ago and now, they're determined to make working folks pay for it all, on what they consider to be moral grounds. So, in short, liberals having forcibly removed God's hand of blessing from our land, find themselves in the position of having only one cookie jar to raid, taxpayer pockets.

With that in mind, we have a moral resonsibility before God with our votes and we will give an account before Him on the matter. Most folks don't think they will be held accountable for voting for these candidates that have openly vowed to support abortion, and gay rights and social justice issues in their campaigns. How wrong they are. We've already started to pay, in spades. The whole mess could be swept away in one election come the mid-terms of 2014. Will we wake up this time?

Wildcatk23 Wrote:Wide

This statement comes to mind.

Jesus taught his followers to love even our enemies. If anyone is teaching hatred toward any group, or any people that they have identified as sinners, it is not of Christ. In fact, Jesus loved us sinners so much that He took our sins upon Himself and He died in our place.

I do not support gays nor do I care if someone chooses to be so. It does not affect me or my relationship with god.

As for abortion. It's so different. I only support abortion in terms of rape and life threatening situations. I think someone would have to live with thee choices and mistakes.

My view of liberal is much different than yours. Mine is I don't think anyone should tell another person what to do. Because everyone doesn't believe the same. Conservatives preach about keeping the governemnt out of our life's until it comes to gays and other issues they don't agree with.

I am far from a Christian. But I believe in the biblical God. Coming to terms with that will be my final judgment.

Wildcat,

First off - thank you for the genuine response.

I'll start with the bottom of your post and work up. I encourage you to keep at it with the Bible. Remember that it's not about works, it's about the grace of God. He knows you are an imperfect human, as am I. I can go on and on all day about the mistakes I make, LOL. Too, too many to count.

Your views on gays/abortions are more to the right than the left. You may have more in common with a conservative than you think, and TBH Wildcat, it hits me now that you remind me of myself about 4 - 5 years ago being more to the center-left. Even though I was to the right on abortion/gay issues, I still was far left on such issues as unions, the war, taxing the rich, etc.

It's a common misconception about conservatives and "hate groups." That is merely a tactic used by the liberal media to turn people away from conservatives. I am not a homophobe, either though the Biblical definition of marriage is clearly defined. As evidenced by my multiple awards in diversity and I could go on, I am not a racist. I do not believe in letting the poor fend for themselves but I certainly don't believe in enabling the lazy and uneducated. This is how the typical conservative thinks, yet the media and the liberals make every goal to pin them differently.

Again, Wildcat, thank you for the reasonable response.

zaga_fan Wrote:No offense to you, Wide...
because this is something that Christians have struggled with forever.

But this is the school of thought that has placed Christians behind the 8-ball.
Christians are more commonly know for what they're against than what they're for anymore.
I sat at Church the other day on a Sunday morning and my stomach almost turned at our message. We had visitor's in the building that could be struggling with anything; depression, drug abuse, an abusive relationship, anything you could imagine. Can anyone guess what the message was about?

We rambled on about Harry Potter, Anne Rice novels and TV shows that you shouldn't watch. Of course, the message was met with choruses of "amens" and everyone left thinking that they had gotten something - but I was left thinking that we missed our chance.

No offense taken Zaga! :Thumbs:

And you couldn't be more right. I worked with a girl to try to get her coming to church a few years ago, and she happened to come on the one night that they were giving a lesson about Harry Potter. It made me cringe, and sure enough, she had cousins that watched Harry Potter and was greatly upset afterward. I don't know enough about Harry Potter except for a couple of painful movies I was forced to watch in french class in high school lol, but considering I played a lot of the video games such as Grand Theft Auto, I can't say too much. To this day, I watch South Park. I believe they prove good points at times, believe it or not. I do agree that the perspective needs to be much more focused on the important things and not so much on the Harry Potters of the world.

Churches use more of an "inside-out" approach in this day rather than an "outside-in." Meaning, they expect you to come in and learn the Word rather than going out in the communities and making a big difference. The smallest of things can make the biggest of differences. I know that I struggle in so many ways to keep true to what God has put me here to do. I struggle in my eating habits, my language, and many other things that I am ashamed of - and yet, I continue to not do a lot about it. If there is a way, I try to make up for that by being involved, being a positive influence to others, and doing little things such as holding doors for people and being polite. The norm is that people should "help others, as long as it doesn't inconvenience yourself." For me, it's "serve others at all costs. The rewarding impact of going out of your way is that it may influence someone else to do the same."

There are just as many problems on the inside of the church as there are on the outside. Too many folks that are judgmental and "high and mighty" to commit sins. Heck, I even remember a street preacher that came to school one time and actually said, "I stopped sinning." What a load of bull, and sadly people believed it! It's our job to be the best witnesses that we can be, to show people that we are humans that struggle, just like everybody else if not worse.

TheRealThing Wrote:The liberal point of view is an alternative point of view which, is seperate, apart and in lieu of belief in God, as He describes Himself in the Holy Bible. That's why liberals always accept the theory of evolution and the big bang as fact. The very act of recognizing God requires action on the part of the one who believes in Him. To admit God is real, means one must eventually bow before Him in repentance for their sin or, face the judgement bereft of the only advocate God will recognize, that of course being the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, it is more covenient to sort of ignore Him, preferring to pretend not to notice Him.

Hence, the continual assault on traditional American values from the left. From the taking out of any mention of God from government documents (more notably the democrat party platform last October) and all forms of public address, to the wildly rebellious actions such as abortions and abortion rights, gay rights and the notions of social justice in general. Liberals want to strike any mention of God from our currency, or allow even the veiled governmental association with christianity to the point of banning nativity scenes from public property during the Christmas holiday season. One thing about all of this Orwellian purging of God from the American conscienceness which I find particularly offensive, is the fact that liberals in positions of power within various levels of state and federal government, can legally use my tax dollars to fund their assault on God and the conservative tradition which has defined our nation since it's conception.

Republicans generally represent conservatives, and democrats generally represent liberals, there inlies the rub and, the contempt. The age old struggle still rages. Man has always rebelled against God, preferring to do things his way. The dems castigate the republicans for not being willing to work together with them. The republicans, though certainly not perfect, are guilty only of trying to slow down the dems burning zeal to peg the meter to the left. In fact, republicans have bent, and it shows now as 77% of Americans are presently paying considerably higher federal taxes. The dems are the inflexible ones from where I sit. Take the ObamaCare fiasco. The birth of which, was back during the Johnson administration. Liberals decided to purchase the woes of the so-called American poor, funding their shortfalls with the tax dollars of the contributing sector of the American populace. Since that day we have fed, housed and clothed an ever increasing number of folks who lack the drive to make their own living. So government now wants to lay it's burden at our feet because one, it's too expensive for them to pay for and two, we're the only place they can turn to for money. That's all ObamaCare is, liberals in government decided to buy folks problems years ago and now, they're determined to make working folks pay for it all, on what they consider to be moral grounds. So, in short, liberals having forcibly removed God's hand of blessing from our land, find themselves in the position of having only one cookie jar to raid, taxpayer pockets.

With that in mind, we have a moral resonsibility before God with our votes and we will give an account before Him on the matter. Most folks don't think they will be held accountable for voting for these candidates that have openly vowed to support abortion, and gay rights and social justice issues in their campaigns. How wrong they are. We've already started to pay, in spades. The whole mess could be swept away in one election come the mid-terms of 2014. Will we wake up this time?

Excellent points on all accounts TRT. And I think the sum of it is, people have lost their discipline. We are no longer a society full of go-getters that want to make a solid living and put their spouses and children in good shape for the future. Now, it's all about (1) "me" and (2) "now" with no thought as to what happens in the future. Our only hope is to wake up around mid-terms, and then in 2016, as you had mentioned. I just don't see people waking up at mid-terms just because the media is trying to pin Boehner as the problem and the reason for this whole mess, as well as the house. I have never seen the speaker of the house receive so much blame and so much attention, and sadly, people are stupid so they will probably bite on it, and Obama will once again have a "scratch-free" last two years. I sure hope I am wrong.

From some of your other posts, it looks like you got to live in the time when people were actually sane. I am so jealous!

WideRight05 Wrote:Excellent points on all accounts TRT. And I think the sum of it is, people have lost their discipline. We are no longer a society full of go-getters that want to make a solid living and put their spouses and children in good shape for the future. Now, it's all about (1) "me" and (2) "now" with no thought as to what happens in the future. Our only hope is to wake up around mid-terms, and then in 2016, as you had mentioned. I just don't see people waking up at mid-terms just because the media is trying to pin Boehner as the problem and the reason for this whole mess, as well as the house. I have never seen the speaker of the house receive so much blame and so much attention, and sadly, people are stupid so they will probably bite on it, and Obama will once again have a "scratch-free" last two years. I sure hope I am wrong.

From some of your other posts, it looks like you got to live in the time when people were actually sane. I am so jealous!

There was a time in my life when one could usually believe what was said on the nightly news. The crime rate was invisible, politicians did not play to the camera the way they do now. And, there was genuine respect between the two parties. The congressional differences, gridlock and slander we see in this day, are born of contempt and would have been unthinkable during the Reagan era. And, though there are plenty enough philosophical divides to go around, the contempt and slander seen as common place in this day are the results of clashes that occur along spiritual lines. Some want to continue to honor God by legislating as our fathers did, and some see that as passe and simple minded. Words cannot adequately express the sense of well being we all felt in those days. Jobs were plentiful, great paying and sure. The future was something looked forward to with great enthusiasm.

When society got to the point that some rapper felt proud to come on media outlets and post pictures of 8 women with whom he has fathered children, was about the same time I realized something. A big part of America's problem with welfare and hungry children is due to all these absentee fathers. Fathers used to get married if they got their girlfriend pregnant. Now they post their pictures online and laugh about it while my government forces me to pay for their sexual misdeeds. Trust me Wide, America is on it's head. What was once wrong is now right, and vice versa.

A better question would be, "Can you be politically involved in any way and be a Christian?"

The political government in this country is the most mischevious, conniving, backstabbing, Godless entity this world has ever seen. All to often we even find conservatives who sway away from there beliefs to satisfy certain people.

Stay away and vote for the best you can. Ive done it the last two elections and was defeated both times, however, to know i didnt try to help defeat one of the worst would have made me as a person feel worse.

TheRealThing Wrote:There was a time in my life when one could usually believe what was said on the nightly news. The crime rate was invisible, politicians did not play to the camera the way they do now. And, there was genuine respect between the two parties. The congressional differences, gridlock and slander we see in this day, are born of contempt and would have been unthinkable during the Reagan era. And, though there are plenty enough philosophical divides to go around, the contempt and slander seen as common place in this day are the results of clashes that occur along spiritual lines. Some want to continue to honor God by legislating as our fathers did, and some see that as passe and simple minded. Words cannot adequately express the sense of well being we all felt in those days. Jobs were plentiful, great paying and sure. The future was something looked forward to with great enthusiasm.

When society got to the point that some rapper felt proud to come on media outlets and post pictures of 8 women with whom he has fathered children, was about the same time I realized something. A big part of America's problem with welfare and hungry children is due to all these absentee fathers. Fathers used to get married if they got their girlfriend pregnant. Now they post their pictures online and laugh about it while my government forces me to pay for their sexual misdeeds. Trust me Wide, America is on it's head. What was once wrong is now right, and vice versa.

I did not realize that you were so close to my age!

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:A better question would be, "Can you be politically involved in any way and be a Christian?"
The political government in this country is the most mischevious, conniving, backstabbing, Godless entity this world has ever seen. All to often we even find conservatives who sway away from there beliefs to satisfy certain people.

Stay away and vote for the best you can. Ive done it the last two elections and was defeated both times, however, to know i didnt try to help defeat one of the worst would have made me as a person feel worse.

Christians BETTER be involved! Part of the problem is the apathy that is currently being generated, and unfortunately, I believe it is being initiated in large part, straight from the conservative Christians.

I will NEVER stay away and just vote. I work in every election, and I've never been paid a cent for it. I can't tell you that I've made a difference in any election; probably haven't, BUT I will not go down without a fight.

Granny Bear Wrote:Christians BETTER be involved! Part of the problem is the apathy that is currently being generated, and unfortunately, I believe it is being initiated in large part, straight from the conservative Christians.

I will NEVER stay away and just vote. I work in every election, and I've never been paid a cent for it. I can't tell you that I've made a difference in any election; probably haven't, BUT I will not go down without a fight.

The same conservative Christians that didn't allow women to vote when this nation was formed?

zaga_fan Wrote:No offense to you, Wide...
because this is something that Christians have struggled with forever.

But this is the school of thought that has placed Christians behind the 8-ball.
Christians are more commonly know for what they're against than what they're for anymore.
I sat at Church the other day on a Sunday morning and my stomach almost turned at our message. We had visitor's in the building that could be struggling with anything; depression, drug abuse, an abusive relationship, anything you could imagine. Can anyone guess what the message was about?

We rambled on about Harry Potter, Anne Rice novels and TV shows that you shouldn't watch. Of course, the message was met with choruses of "amens" and everyone left thinking that they had gotten something - but I was left thinking that we missed our chance.

I posted in another thread similar to your post about "Church". When I was once studying the Word I found myself learning more on my own and with my wife than I did sitting in a pew. I came into Church wanting to be "fed" but instead felt lectured. I attended a Church once because my wife was singing. I enjoyed being there at first, but then the preacher began his sermon. His whole sermon was on how people in the Church aren't paying their tithes and don't let your disagreement with that particular Church keeping you from paying.

To refer to the original post, IMO, people do not understand anymore what Christianity means. It has been catered to everyone's own personal beliefs even though it is my understanding that there are specific guidelines in the Bible.

Wildcatk23 Wrote:The same conservative Christians that didn't allow women to vote when this nation was formed?

One of the most lame statements I've ever read.

Those days are gone, right? Do you begrudge conservative Christians today because women couldn't vote when this country was formed? Was that idea exclusive to "conservative Christians"? How many conservatives do you know today that don't believe women should vote?

Do you begrudge white people today because of slavery in 1860?

You show resentment towards people of today for things in the past, a past you didn't even exist in. I don't get it.

You would be better served to forget all the resentment and grow the hell up.

Granny Bear Wrote:Christians BETTER be involved! Part of the problem is the apathy that is currently being generated, and unfortunately, I believe it is being initiated in large part, straight from the conservative Christians.

I will NEVER stay away and just vote. I work in every election, and I've never been paid a cent for it. I can't tell you that I've made a difference in any election; probably haven't, BUT I will not go down without a fight.

Key word...APATHY!

I have recently been quizzing friends and family, ages 17 to 60 on conservative values. Try it Granny, you will be shocked. My 17 year old son has a better grip on conservatism than most of the older ones. Hopefully he's solid before he goes to college, Lord knows APATHY will be one of the tools used to attack his conservative values.

SKINNYPIG Wrote:One of the most lame statements I've ever read.

Those days are gone, right? Do you begrudge conservative Christians today because women couldn't vote when this country was formed? Was that idea exclusive to "conservative Christians"? How many conservatives do you know today that don't believe women should vote?

Do you begrudge white people today because of slavery in 1860?

You show resentment towards people of today for things in the past, a past you didn't even exist in. I don't get it.

You would be better served to forget all the resentment and grow the hell up.

Your making my point for me. I hold no resentment toward anyone.

Whenever you hear Christian conservatives speak its about the values and the morals this country was built on. When the values and morals was sickening. We have a great nation because it has evolved away from slavery and discrimination toward women and others.

Seperation of church and state.

And I know MANY conservative Christians that gather on Sunday in there social groups to point out there higher calling while there wives set there and not say a word.

I believe many of the present day Christian churches are more interested in social events (ski trips and theme parties- like the Super Bowl- for the youth, shopping trips for the elderly, luncheons for the ladies, sporting event trips for the gentlemen, etc.) than they are in carrying out the dictates of the scriptures. Many churches seem to be moving toward being social clubs of sorts.

^
Generally, a church of 20 holds much more spirit than one of 2000.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:^
Generally, a church of 20 holds much more spirit than one of 2000.

That it does. My great uncle was a pastor in Martin county up until he died last summer. Now that he has passed away the church has 3 different pastors that all fight over power. They took the bible school rooms to make offices. Hold high member meetings. It's like a cult.

While the church I go to now has maybe around 15-30 members and the atmosphere and joy is 100x better.

SKINNYPIG Wrote:Key word...APATHY!

I have recently been quizzing friends and family, ages 17 to 60 on conservative values. Try it Granny, you will be shocked. My 17 year old son has a better grip on conservatism than most of the older ones. Hopefully he's solid before he goes to college, Lord knows APATHY will be one of the tools used to attack his conservative values.

There's a lot more tools used than apathy.....more assertive ones! My grand daughter was very disillusioned, and learned a lot of things her first semester. She was recruited to work in the election (local election for a Republican). Even some of her professors publicly commented on her decision. I hope your son is solid, too; she was, but this was an eye opening experience for her.

WideRight05 Wrote:Wildcat,


And you couldn't be more right. I worked with a girl to try to get her coming to church a few years ago, and she happened to come on the one night that they were giving a lesson about Harry Potter. It made me cringe, and sure enough, she had cousins that watched Harry Potter and was greatly upset afterward. I don't know enough about Harry Potter except for a couple of painful movies I was forced to watch in french class in high school lol, but considering I played a lot of the video games such as Grand Theft Auto, I can't say too much. To this day, I watch South Park. I believe they prove good points at times, believe it or not. I do agree that the perspective needs to be much more focused on the important things and not so much on the Harry Potters of the world.

Coming from a freewill baptist background I have seen moments like this. and i think it's all in how you take the message.. Arguing with my wife is impossible.. She hangs on one this I said instead of listening to the point of the message.. Then she keeps on arguing..
When people hear that something they enjoy doing is wrong it offends them and they go about the rest of their day trying to justify what they enjoy. I understand that.

I like Harry Potter and the Percy Jackson series. I love a good read.. It doesn't make me any less christian, but I can see where people will want to believe that this can be the truth.

As far as a christian being a liberal, I'm not sure about that. I think a Christian can have an open mind about other people's beliefs, while standing firm in theirs..
The problem I see is that most "christians" try to convert everyone they meet. That offends the "non-believers" Then everyone trys to say that all christians just want to preach AT them.. .

I have friends that are gay though.. and they know how I feel about it. but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop talking to them just because they don't believe like me. I'm not the best christian either so I know that i have no room to just a single soul in this world. I know my life and i know my thoughts. That's all i know for fact.

TheRealThing Wrote:There was a time in my life when one could usually believe what was said on the nightly news. The crime rate was invisible, politicians did not play to the camera the way they do now. And, there was genuine respect between the two parties. The congressional differences, gridlock and slander we see in this day, are born of contempt and would have been unthinkable during the Reagan era. And, though there are plenty enough philosophical divides to go around, the contempt and slander seen as common place in this day are the results of clashes that occur along spiritual lines. Some want to continue to honor God by legislating as our fathers did, and some see that as passe and simple minded. Words cannot adequately express the sense of well being we all felt in those days. Jobs were plentiful, great paying and sure. The future was something looked forward to with great enthusiasm.

When society got to the point that some rapper felt proud to come on media outlets and post pictures of 8 women with whom he has fathered children, was about the same time I realized something. A big part of America's problem with welfare and hungry children is due to all these absentee fathers. Fathers used to get married if they got their girlfriend pregnant. Now they post their pictures online and laugh about it while my government forces me to pay for their sexual misdeeds. Trust me Wide, America is on it's head. What was once wrong is now right, and vice versa.

Oh, TRT, if only I would have ever got to seen the days where society was actually good. I grew up in the 90's, right during the Clinton era. I vaguely remember seeing the media as a young child during Bush I, and the president back then seemed like such an honorable figure. The media probably had their share of bias, but there was nowhere near the emotion and lack of competence that appeared toward the later part of the 90's.

Society has really liberalized in a lot of ways. For example, I was with a friend and his grandmother a while back at my previous church. We went to a local restaurant that served alcohol. We didn't think anything of it, and his grandmother (who is now approaching her 90's), refused to eat anywhere that served alcohol. We considered it uncommon in this time, but it was probably common years ago. I wonder if, scary to think, the same attitudes will develop toward gays and abortions years from now. In fact, I know somebody that is from Canada who says that gay rights isn't even an issue there and marriage is allowed. Nobody fights it. I hope our society don't come to that day.

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:A better question would be, "Can you be politically involved in any way and be a Christian?"

The political government in this country is the most mischevious, conniving, backstabbing, Godless entity this world has ever seen. All to often we even find conservatives who sway away from there beliefs to satisfy certain people.

Stay away and vote for the best you can. Ive done it the last two elections and was defeated both times, however, to know i didnt try to help defeat one of the worst would have made me as a person feel worse.

RIUTG, you make a good point with that post. You can be politically involved and be a Christian. Mitt Romney certainly wasn't the person I would have liked to put forth in this election. However, he was the most polished of the two turds.

I could probably name a few "Christian conservatives" whose actions were different from their words from the moment they took office. Picture it like this. If a politician starts waving his Bible around, says he is going to make an effort to stop abortion, gay marriage, and represent Christ in every way and he lies to the people, that will be between him and God and he will suffer for it. However, if we choose somebody like Barack Obama knowing what he represents, then that makes it between us and God.

Granny Bear Wrote:There's a lot more tools used than apathy.....more assertive ones! My grand daughter was very disillusioned, and learned a lot of things her first semester. She was recruited to work in the election (local election for a Republican). Even some of her professors publicly commented on her decision. I hope your son is solid, too; she was, but this was an eye opening experience for her.

College professors...ugh! I remember the days of dreading going to class because of some douche that used class time to try to humiliate students because of their political beliefs. I'm so glad to be out of college - and it's still fun coming back some time and rubbing it in some of my professors' faces.

crazytaxidriver Wrote:Coming from a freewill baptist background I have seen moments like this. and i think it's all in how you take the message.. Arguing with my wife is impossible.. She hangs on one this I said instead of listening to the point of the message.. Then she keeps on arguing..
When people hear that something they enjoy doing is wrong it offends them and they go about the rest of their day trying to justify what they enjoy. I understand that.

I like Harry Potter and the Percy Jackson series. I love a good read.. It doesn't make me any less christian, but I can see where people will want to believe that this can be the truth.

As far as a christian being a liberal, I'm not sure about that. I think a Christian can have an open mind about other people's beliefs, while standing firm in theirs..
The problem I see is that most "christians" try to convert everyone they meet. That offends the "non-believers" Then everyone trys to say that all christians just want to preach AT them.. .

I have friends that are gay though.. and they know how I feel about it. but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop talking to them just because they don't believe like me. I'm not the best christian either so I know that i have no room to just a single soul in this world. I know my life and i know my thoughts. That's all i know for fact.

You hit it CTD, especially in that last paragraph. It was Jesus himself who said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick." Although I would certainly put myself in the "sick" category 95% of the time, I would think that Jesus would have been at places like bars trying to work with people. In fact, I'm sure you're familiar with the band Korn, one of their lead singers is a Christian and he has witnessed to people in places like bars. It is amazing to think of the great work that people could do, if we could get some of the Christian to quit acting like they are too high and mighty to help others.

Harry Rex Vonner Wrote:I believe many of the present day Christian churches are more interested in social events (ski trips and theme parties- like the Super Bowl- for the youth, shopping trips for the elderly, luncheons for the ladies, sporting event trips for the gentlemen, etc.) than they are in carrying out the dictates of the scriptures. Many churches seem to be moving toward being social clubs of sorts.

Good post Harry, and this response will be directed at all of us.

Since we have seen and agreed to a problem that exists in churches today, what are ways we can be great examples to impacting others and potentially leading them to God?

The college professors are part of the communist movement and do not even realise it.

WideRight05 Wrote:Oh, TRT, if only I would have ever got to seen the days where society was actually good. I grew up in the 90's, right during the Clinton era. I vaguely remember seeing the media as a young child during Bush I, and the president back then seemed like such an honorable figure. The media probably had their share of bias, but there was nowhere near the emotion and lack of competence that appeared toward the later part of the 90's.

It wasn't so much that society was good, as it was the idea that one could count on people to make the right choices in life. And, back then if they didn't make the right choice they were somewhat ostracized for making bad choices. Back then, it was okay to call a spade a spade. Bums were bums. These days, we make taxpayer kept heros out of people that live depraved lifestyles, and give their live-in 'significant others' beneficiary status, LOL.

At any rate, the point in time you reference was the divide in the timeline. Sort of 'before sanity' and 'after sanity'. If one did not live during that time, he has no real basis for accuate contrast between traditional America and the vast la-la land we are mutating into. People always underestimate the tremendous impact profs have on their charges. Almost all of the left wing doctrine, is delivered by the youth. Avid supporters parroting the liberal brain wash and DNC generated propaganda, and have had their political awareness given to them by legions of liberal profs. Their political leaders, once laughed at for their weird ideas, are folks like the Clintons, Al Gore, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Patrick Leahy, John Kerry, Charlie Rangel, Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy, et-al. The afore mentioned supporters, are products of our liberal institutions, who've been taught to deny the God of creation, in favor of the theory of evolution and the big bang, also to aspire to notions of social justice and the green agenda. That's why you see Obama delivering policy speeches at universities so often. Where else could one find enough liberal minded adults concentrated in a small area like that, outside of an organizing and bussing entity such as labor, to mobilize sufficient throngs of the glassy eyed?

Why are there so many liberal professors?

Wildcatk23 Wrote:Why are there so many liberal professors?

That's a very good question to which, I would answer this. Men who don't want to accept God's natural position in the universe as creator, need an alternative point of view with which to refute His authority. It's like an unpaid bill laying around on top of one's desk. At first you just ignore it for a while, then you rationalize, finally you are left with the fact that you're not going to pay it. At that point, justification for your actions are required so you make up a good reason and go with it. Darwin made up the evolution of the species, Hawkins made up the big bang, environmentalists drilled the ice cores that led to the speculation about global warming, and so it goes. It follows that academia, a group that has always been very impressed with themselves, tend to lean on man's ability to reason over a faith in God.