I was just curious if all the regions are calling like the 16th region. I dont have a problem with calling a tight game but some of these games are no fun to even go watch. Players are so confused right now on how to play D. I can honestly say I thing the refs are confused also. I have seen players run into another girl that has their hands straight up, never moved and they get called for the foul and then 2 plays later the call goes the other way. Whats happening is all of your starters are sitting the bench and the subs are playing the games. I guess this is one way to make sure everyone gets playing time. If the 16th region is the only one calling like this these teams will get their butts kicked when playing other regions. Just let them play. If not all I can say is coaches work on free throw shooting because thats what will win state.:Thumbs:
The emphasis on "calling it close" in the 16th is ridiculous. If the 16th has the only refs calling it this close, a 16th region team will be at a huge disadvantage when they go to the state tournament.
Trust me it's not only the 16th region but the 15th region also. Officiating has been poor to say the least.
Most refs should be at the grade school level. Let the kids play. Call it more on the side of how college is called. Not all the way, but lean toward that side.
I disagree. You guys need to come down to the 4th, 11th, and 12th regions if you want a wrestling match instead of a basketball game. Down here, it is not if you can shoot or pass the basketball, but whether you can survive without getting hurt. We don't worry about fouling out, just injured out. The strongest survive. One coach told me that no need to teach defense anymore, just teach how to grab, hold, handcheck, illegal screen and you will win most games. Basketball needs to return to its purest form, not the way college and pros play.
I think there needs to be a stronger emphasis on training these refs. Sometimes during a game they look lost, and some of them don't even know the rules.
KHSAA has instructed the officials to clean up the game. During the basketball advisory meeting last spring the coaches were upset with how physical the game has become. During the boys state tournament the commissioner had a meeting with the officials after Wednesday's games and told them to clean it up. However, the officials have to find that common ground between too physical and allowable contact not to interfere with the flow of the game. If one area of the state is not cleaning up the game and other areas are, then the mixed crews at the state tournaments will be a cluster.
Will be very hard and interesting to watch Boyd County and Ashland make the adjustment to the officials. For nearly 15 years Ashland and Boyd has gotten away with true butchery, shoves, hand checks and etc. Both teams are very well coached but the adjustment may take some time. Ashland survives based on having a deeper bench than Boyd.
I believe the refs are confused on what to call. I just dont feel like calling 70-90 fouls a game is good. Its not basketball and its honestly pretty boring, because all your going to see is free throw shooting all night. I agree they shouldnt be killing each other out there but they have went way to far by calling every time they touch each other.
Here's the problem: If officials in the 5th region call the hand checks and officials in the 12th don't call hand checks the players cannot adjust. The coaches box is another biggie. If the 13th keeps coaches in the box and the 14th says who cares than the commish should come in and say "call the box or we will remove you." A rule is there for a reason it's not play through the contact anymore. This isn't 1950's with "No blood No foul." Guys I understand your pain but a foul is a foul, period....
Not every touch is a foul. If it is then call it every time u see ANY contact, they r not doing that and these players are just as confused. I think they are making basketball very boring, Noone wants to see 70 fouls a game.
theend Wrote:Not every touch is a foul. If it is then call it every time u see ANY contact, they r not doing that and these players are just as confused. I think they are making basketball very boring, Noone wants to see 70 fouls a game.
A personal foul is a player foul which involves ILLEGAL CONTACTwith an opponent while the ball is live, which HINDERS an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes CONTACT by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead. Straight out of the rule book so any contact that hinders the movement of normal offensive or defensive is a foul. Sorry but the way us fans think is this, "Come on ref let them play" and then at the end of the game "I can't believe he didn't call that foul." So if we don't like all the fouls lets do this, talk to the coaches and say "Come on coach tell him play defense with his feet not his hands" or "Come on coach tell #2 to stop holding.":pondering:
I agree completely, but for those that have seen games this year know that fouls r being called that are not hindering movement by the contact. IMO this reason is that they were told to call it close and the officials don't know how ,so they call every touch
I see more NO Calls that affect the game. I saw a girl dribbling the ball against a 13th region power and she was all but beat down and the ball taken away from her. Then on the other end, touch fouls being called. This imbalance is what most fans absolutely despise(at least I do). If a slight bump or hand check is a foul on one end, then call it on the other and dont let some teams run roughshod over other teams because of name. Bigs have been all but taken out of any kind of play in the 13th.
I totally agree Hitter. I believe the officials need to come together before the game and be on the same page as for the hand check, bumps, or whatever. This way all officials SHOULD call the same fouls.
FYI - The KHSAA is looking for officials all the time, if you guys think you can do it, take the test, get a whistle, go to camp and join the action. I've had coaches tell me in a game, we teach them in practice to hand check to push off. Really?
Don't want it called on their team but you hear them scream get their hands off them. I told one coach that told me they teach that in practice, I told the coach, the other coach teaches them to do that in practice too, I guess they are teaching it better than you are.
Last Friday night in our game we called, 53 fouls, the game lasted 2 hours, and I can tell you we didn't want to call that many fouls, but if that's how they are going to play, I guess they better have a deep bench is all I can say!
^^
I actually did that years ago. Mainly because I needed to understand the basics and how officials interpret an action to be a "called foul".
53 fouls is extreme, IMO. Maybe they were all deserved, but there needs to be consistency in officiating. It isn't that I want different "kinds" of fouls called for my team as opposed to the other; but at least call the same way throughout the game! It's difficult to know how to coach the kids when the officials are all over the place.
b1gblu3sports Wrote:I totally agree Hitter. I believe the officials need to come together before the game and be on the same page as for the hand check, bumps, or whatever. This way all officials SHOULD call the same fouls.
This is an excellent idea. We played at South Laurel the other night, and the officiating was sub-par. (I'm being kind here, too....just ask South Laurel!!) This game had two head butts to the groin area, hard enough to put these players out of the game for a while.....no call. Also, South Laurel and 2 out of bounds and one intentional foul called; all incorrect. However, the most noticeable faux pas was the goal tending that happened and a NO call. How can 3 officials miss a goal tend?!? This wasn't a matter of of judgement either; it was very noticeable and just ignored.
13th region officials, with exception of a few good ones..have no focus on the court, they are worrying about the crowd and actually making comments back to the crowd. They seem like they all just smoked a joint before the game! It is very inconsistent in the 13th! Sad for the kids and coaches who work hard!
Until they have consiquences for their actions it won't change.
Countrygirlballer Wrote:13th region officials, with exception of a few good ones..have no focus on the court, they are worrying about the crowd and actually making comments back to the crowd. They seem like they all just smoked a joint before the game! It is very inconsistent in the 13th! Sad for the kids and coaches who work hard!
Well, did you ever hit the nail on the head!!
In a perfect world all refs would be consistent however what other profession is consistent? I mean one cop pulls you over and writes you a ticket for going 8 miles over the speed limit, the other cop writes a warning for someone going 9 miles over. One paperboy puts your paper on the porch, the other one throws it in the driveway. One teacher gives you an extra day to turn in late work the next one puts a zero down and that is it. One coach coaches his team all night, the other coach yells at the refs all night. Some fans cheer their teams , others yell at the refs , others cuss the refs and the other team. Where is the consistancy?
Because Refs are individuals you will always have some inconsistancy. Its part of the game.
For the record I have never officiated a High school basketball game. But I was a paperboy at one time.
It is too easy to be an official and people who would make good refs really don't want the grief for what little pay is involved.
Mountaineer Man Wrote:FYI - The KHSAA is looking for officials all the time, if you guys think you can do it, take the test, get a whistle, go to camp and join the action. I've had coaches tell me in a game, we teach them in practice to hand check to push off. Really?
Don't want it called on their team but you hear them scream get their hands off them. I told one coach that told me they teach that in practice, I told the coach, the other coach teaches them to do that in practice too, I guess they are teaching it better than you are.
Last Friday night in our game we called, 53 fouls, the game lasted 2 hours, and I can tell you we didn't want to call that many fouls, but if that's how they are going to play, I guess they better have a deep bench is all I can say!
We don't have to get a whistle and join the KHSAA because we don't CHOOSE to. Whe n we pay $5 to enter a game we expect a modicum of professionalism, since the officials are getting paid. Saw East Carter and Elliott play earlier in the year...70 free throws. Went to Lewis County Saturday for their showcase; Lewis County 42 FTs, South Point 11. Rowan County 33 FT's Simon Kenton 7. The officials have become the show, and that is evident because there are threads on every message board and its the topic of conversation in the stands before every game. The one adjustment coaches will have to make is that their scouting reports are going to have to include Joe Blow official and how he calls the game, and make his scratches accordingly. Whoever the genius was that determined that this was the best way to "clean up the game" has no clue what he is talking about. Games have become FT shooting contests and it has allowed teams with inferior talent to stay in games. And anyone who thinks the state tournament will be officiated this way is sorely mistaken; it's the "greatest show in hoops" and nobody will pay to see this. Besides, they're on a schedule at Rupp/Diddle and they don't like to get too far behind. The really sad part is that I've talked to 4-5 officials in the 16th that say this style of officiating won't last. It's a point of emphasis, and after the first of the year will return to a more normal type of officiating the games. Which I think is absolutely ludicrous. It's either important enough to be a POE or it's not.
I believe that officials should also have to pass a fitness test before becoming licensed. The 16th has some 300lb guys trying to get up and down the floor.
Everybody thinks officials are in it for the money. Let's look at teachers. They make a lot more money than officials. Do we have some that just show up and collect a pay check? Of course we do. There ought to be more focus on that than officials. Most regions are lacking in officials, that is why you see what you think is subpar officials on the floor. It is state mandated that every varsity game now be done by a 3 man crew. That takes a lot of officials, plus the JV games. Now a typical day in the life of an official consists of going to work, leaving the house by 4:30-5:00, usually without eating supper. They then travel an hour to hour and a half, get yelled at, cussed at and talked to like a second rate citizen. After the game, travel back home, arriving at 10:00-10:30. All this for $55.00. Add to that the cost of gasoline plus having to stop and get a burger or something to eat. The average cost of gas per game is about $12.00. The cheapest thing to get to eat is at McDonalds for $5.00. That makes the whole evening, consisting of five and a half to six hours for a net of around $38.00. Add to that the 1099 they get at the end of the year. And you want to complain about your $5.00? Granted, there are some officials better than others. That is why all the good ones in the stands need to join up.
I didn't see where anybody said they were in it for the money. The point is, they are being compensated to perform a job. And it is a choice they make to be there for $55. My $5 entitles me to an adequate performance from grown men being paid for a service. The average game is less than 2 hours...that makes the compensation about $27.50 per hour. Not many places you can go to work for that.
Your analogy about teachers is ludicrous. The fact is if you want to go to school for 4 years, plus earn a masters degree in 10 years or less you can become a teacher. All I have to do to become an official is take a test (open book I believe) and start work.
HD28 Wrote:I didn't see where anybody said they were in it for the money. The point is, they are being compensated to perform a job. And it is a choice they make to be there for $55. My $5 entitles me to an adequate performance from grown men being paid for a service. The average game is less than 2 hours...that makes the compensation about $27.50 per hour. Not many places you can go to work for that.
Your analogy about teachers is ludicrous. The fact is if you want to go to school for 4 years, plus earn a masters degree in 10 years or less you can become a teacher. All I have to do to become an official is take a test (open book I believe) and start work.
The comparison to teachers is that all professions have people that just show up. For every teacher that bust their tail to perform, there is one who shows up and collects a pay check. My point is you also can't judge all officials by the ones that choose not to improve. And it is not $27.50 an hour. Like I said, a single game takes about six hours, plus gas and eats. That comes out to $38.00 divided by six hours to be about $6.34 an hour. Not even minimum wage. But again, if it is so easy, I would LOVE for all the experts in the stands who never miss a call to join in the fun.
Six hours? JV starts at 6, varsity at 7:30. Most games are over by 9:10 or so....?
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Unless 56 fouls are called!!
When I said get the refs together and call the same thing I meant this: That refs should be on the same page with hand checkes, push, coaches box, etc.... I will bet the house on this; if one ref calls a hand check right off the bat you will not have many hand checks after that. If you call a push early guess what not many rest of the night. As for the refs in the 13th I have seen several games there as well and I would agree with SOME refs being to busy looking/talking to the crowd but there is some that is improving or pretty good refs. Has anyone watched much in the 5th or 12th? Go watch a couple there and then complain about the 13th.
I've seen a lot of 240-300 lb officials. I'd love to see a fitness test Implemented. It appears as if some are calling fouls just to get a rest! At least to me....