Bluegrassrivals

Don't worry. There nothing graphic in this video. But there is very bad language in the comments of the link:

This video was taken earlier this year:

Deathstar 80 Wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=end...wHFh8&NR=1

It is time for Israel to stop leaving witnesses to their defensive attacks against their enemies. If Hamas wants to erect missile launchers next to mosques and schools, then they need to stop worrying about world opinion and do everything necessary to protect their own citizens from attacks. That is what we would want our government to do if we were under constant attack and it is what people in every other nation on the planet expect of their government.

The primary responsibility of a national government is to defend its borders and its citizens from attacks from foreign enemies. Just because our own government is refusing to do its job is no reason for our government to pressure Israel into not taking steps to secure its borders.

Hoot Gibson Wrote:It is time for Israel to stop leaving witnesses to their defensive attacks against their enemies. If Hamas wants to erect missile launchers next to mosques and schools, then they need to stop worrying about world opinion and do everything necessary to protect their own citizens from attacks. That is what we would want our government to do if we were under constant attack and it is what people in every other nation on the planet expect of their government.

The primary responsibility of a national government is to defend its borders and its citizens from attacks from foreign enemies. Just because our own government is refusing to do its job is no reason for our government to pressure Israel into not taking steps to secure its borders.

Netanyahu has had enough, Obama can certainly exert great pressure on him to continue to be passive with Hamas, but I don't see that happening now. At the same time, I will believe Obama intends to honor his campaign rhetoric to stand with Israel on matters of her defense when I see it happening.

TheRealThing Wrote:Netanyahu has had enough, Obama can certainly exert great pressure on him to continue to be passive with Hamas, but I don't see that happening now. At the same time, I will believe Obama intends to honor his campaign rhetoric to stand with Israel on matters of her defense when I see it happening.

You may be right, but I suspect that because Obama no longer needs Jewish campaign donations and votes and because he is an anti-Semite, he will gladly demonize Israel for causing "civilian" deaths and stand by idly as Israel takes on its enemies alone.

Hoot Gibson Wrote:You may be right, but I suspect that because Obama no longer needs Jewish campaign donations and votes and because he is an anti-Semite, he will gladly demonize Israel for causing "civilian" deaths and stand by idly as Israel takes on its enemies alone.

Yeah, he totally needed the votes. The idea that Jews would fall for the tactic in the face of the facts is rather apocalyptic, if you ask me. Talk about your strong delusion! A consciencious objector when it comes to an official state visit to the land of Israel, it had been mere minutes on history's canvas since Obama said the Jews should fall back to the 1967 lines, and here they are looking for a reason to vote for him, unbelievable.

TheRealThing Wrote:Yeah, he totally needed the votes. The idea that Jews would fall for the tactic in the face of the facts is rather apocalyptic, if you ask me. Talk about your strong delusion! A consciencious objector when it comes to an official state visit to the land of Israel, it had been mere minutes on history's canvas since Obama said the Jews should fall back to the 1967 lines, and here they are looking for a reason to vote for him, unbelievable.

Over 80 percent of American citizens living in Israel voted for Romney. It's the ones living stateside who are deluded. The only reason that Obama's policy was not even more anti-Israel for the past four years was that he was facing another election. Now, Obama is free to let the things that he learned in the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church to infuse American foreign policy with pro-Islam, anti-Semitic bigotry.

Quote: WASHINGTON — US President Barack Obama on Friday reiterated US support for Israel's right to defend itself during a call with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about the conflict in Gaza.
"The president reiterated US support for Israel's right to defend itself, and expressed regret over the loss of Israeli and Palestinian civilian lives," the White House said in a summary of the conversation.
Netanyahu, who initiated the call, expressed his deep appreciation for US investment in the Iron Dome rocket and mortar defense system, "which has effectively defeated hundreds of incoming rockets from Gaza and saved countless Israeli lives," according to the readout.
The two leaders also "discussed options for de-escalating the situation." However, the White House statement did not provide any details.
Obama on Friday also spoke with Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, commending his country's efforts to de-escalate the situation and expressing his hope that these efforts would be successful, the White House said.
"The president expressed regret for the loss of Israeli and Palestinian civilian lives, and underscored the importance of resolving the situation as quickly as possible to restore stability and prevent further loss of life," said a summary of that call, which was initiated by Obama.
The calls came as Gaza militants fired rockets at both Jerusalem and Tel Aviv on Friday, aiming for Israel's political and commercial hearts and prompting the call-up of thousands more reservists in readiness for a potential ground war.
The Israeli military said it had sealed off all the main roads around the Gaza border, declaring the area a closed military zone. The move is the latest sign that Israel's patience with the rocket fire was at an end, and it was poised to launch its first ground offensive on the territory since 2008-2009.
Neither rocket caused casualties or damage, police said, but they sowed panic in both of the Jewish state's main population centers, setting off warning sirens and sending people scurrying to shelters.
The two rockets were the farthest Gaza militants have ever fired into Israel, exceeding even the 60 kilometers (36 miles) achieved Thursday by a rocket that hit the sea off Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art...f0db80.e51

^That's good for President Obama. However, he has been working with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood should not be trusted at all. Here's an article:

Egypt's Brotherhood slams Israel over Gaza strikes

Israel has a legitimate reason to attack radical Islamists in the Gaza strip. As a matter of fact, I think that Israel should invade the Gaza strip and keep the land for themselves once they claim that land.

Keep in mind, Iran is still making a nuclear weapon. It's very possible that Iran wants Hezbollah and Hamas to give Israel trouble during this time in order to offer a distraction from Iran's nuclear weapons making.

I would like to remind everyone of the reason why the Jews in Israel are not "occupiers." After World War I, the Ottoman Empire gambled in that war against England, America, etc. Obviously, the Ottoman Empire lost that war and, therefore, the land that England took (aka Palestine) was legitimately English land. England decided to give some of the land to the Jewish people (a request from Chaim Weizmann, who greatly helped England in winning World War I). Over the years, Israel has been attacked repeatedly. Most of the time, it gave back the land that it conquered. In the Six-Day War, Israel kept some of the land. From what I heard, it was for national security reasons - just in case they went through another war. Therefore, the land of Israel is rightfully owned by the Jewish people. People want to label the Jewish people as "occupiers," but that's simply wrong to say.

Deathstar 80 Wrote:^That's good for President Obama. However, he has been working with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood should not be trusted at all. Here's an article:

Egypt's Brotherhood slams Israel over Gaza strikes

Israel has a legitimate reason to attack radical Islamists in the Gaza strip. As a matter of fact, I think that Israel should invade the Gaza strip and keep the land for themselves once they claim that land.

Keep in mind, Iran is still making a nuclear weapon. It's very possible that Iran wants Hezbollah and Hamas to give Israel trouble during this time in order to offer a distraction from Iran's nuclear weapons making.

I would like to remind everyone of the reason why the Jews in Israel are not "occupiers." After World War I, the Ottoman Empire gambled in that war against England, America, etc. Obviously, the Ottoman Empire lost that war and, therefore, the land that England took (aka Palestine) was legitimately English land. England decided to give some of the land to the Jewish people (a request from Chaim Weizmann, who greatly helped England in winning World War I). Over the years, Israel has been attacked repeatedly. Most of the time, it gave back the land that it conquered. In the Six-Day War, Israel kept some of the land. From what I heard, it was for national security reasons - just in case they went through another war. Therefore, the land of Israel is rightfully owned by the Jewish people. People want to label the Jewish people as "occupiers," but that's simply wrong to say.

It wasn't just Obama who works with the Muslim Brotherhood, Bush also worked with them and had them as advisers in the DHS.


The Jewish lobby is the most powerful lobby in DC. They are big time Dem supporters, so Obama will cater to them, not because he needs them, but because his party needs them, so that the Dems can carry on his ridiculous policies when he is no longer involved in politics.

Beetle01 Wrote:It wasn't just Obama who works with the Muslim Brotherhood, Bush also worked with them and had them as advisers in the DHS.


The Jewish lobby is the most powerful lobby in DC. They are big time Dem supporters, so Obama will cater to them, not because he needs them, but because his party needs them, so that the Dems can carry on his ridiculous policies when he is no longer involved in politics.

Catering to the the Jews who support Obama is not the same as supporting Israel in its fight against Islamo-fascists. Remember that the next time that you hear Obama or one of his minions call upon both Israel and its attackers to exercise "restraint" and notice the silence of the Obama administration between Israel's active responses to terrorist attacks. Obama sees the thugs who launch rockets into Israel and Israel's military as no worse than equals. Not taking sides with Israel against Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran does nothing but encourage more terrorism.

Obama does not need Jewish votes and campaign contributions again. Whatever support he gives to Israel will be mostly symbolic and mostly rhetoric.

Hoot,

Personally, I feel like we need to just keep our nose out of it. Our support of Israel is what has encouraged and drawn terrorists to our shores. I am uncertain as to why we are Israel's ally. It serves no trading purpose, or personal benefit to the American people (which is the most important factor). In fact, it does the opposite, it endangers Americans, and draws us into conflicts in which we have no business dealing with.

However, don't think that means I do not believe Israel should not do whatever they feel is necessary to secure their people and borders. They should in fact do so, and should have done it a long time ago and put an end to these conflicts. However, I believe in a way they think as long as their is some form of conflict, money and weaponry will continue to flow into their hands.

We will see how serious Israel is about ending these conflicts. I am not sure what a "ground war" is supposed to be in Gaza, because Hamas does not have armor, and weaponry to come out and face the Israeli's, so unless they plan on just kicking everyone out (which I would be fine with, that's how the world has always worked) and taking it back for themselves, I think it may just be a show of power to Iran. One last effort to get Iran to cave on nuclear weapons before Israel has to strike.

Just some theories, no real evidence to back some of that up.

When an ally is in battle, and we "keep our nose out of it", what kind of an ally does that make us?

SKINNYPIG Wrote:When an ally is in battle, and we "keep our nose out of it", what kind of an ally does that make us?

How much have they helped us by keeping their noses out of our battles in that area?

Beetle01 Wrote:Hoot,

Personally, I feel like we need to just keep our nose out of it. Our support of Israel is what has encouraged and drawn terrorists to our shores. I am uncertain as to why we are Israel's ally. It serves no trading purpose, or personal benefit to the American people (which is the most important factor). In fact, it does the opposite, it endangers Americans, and draws us into conflicts in which we have no business dealing with.

However, don't think that means I do not believe Israel should not do whatever they feel is necessary to secure their people and borders. They should in fact do so, and should have done it a long time ago and put an end to these conflicts. However, I believe in a way they think as long as their is some form of conflict, money and weaponry will continue to flow into their hands.

We will see how serious Israel is about ending these conflicts. I am not sure what a "ground war" is supposed to be in Gaza, because Hamas does not have armor, and weaponry to come out and face the Israeli's, so unless they plan on just kicking everyone out (which I would be fine with, that's how the world has always worked) and taking it back for themselves, I think it may just be a show of power to Iran. One last effort to get Iran to cave on nuclear weapons before Israel has to strike.

Just some theories, no real evidence to back some of that up.

You are probably too young to understand how Israel arrived at this point in history, Beetle. Israel was attacked by the armed forces of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. Israel won that war and occupied territory that it deemed necessary to secure its borders. Beginning with Jimmy Carter, the United States began pressuring Israel to surrender pieces of the occupied territory for peace. It has not mattered whether our government has been controlled by Democrats or Republicans, the U.S. has continued to apply pressure to Israeli leaders to give up the land that they won in the Six Days War.

Now, having given up the Gaza Strip to Palestinians and the Sinai Peninsula, rockets are raining down upon Tel Aviv and Jerusalem from Gaza, and reportedly Egyptian soil as well.

The United States helped put Israel in its current predicament. You say that we are targeted by Islamic radicals because of our support of Israel. I say that we are being targeting because, in part, we have undermined what was Israel's position of strength following the 1967 War.

The least that the United States can do is to drop the calls for Israel to "exercise restraint" when responding to unprovoked rocket attacks that are being launched from territory that Israel has already traded for "peace," at America's urging.

The time for the U.S. to keep its nose out of Israel's business passed long ago. We have a moral obligation to support Israel, but voters just cast their lot with an immoral president to manage foreign policy. Israel deserves a better fate and so do we.

TheRealVille Wrote:How much have they helped us by keeping their noses out of our battles in that area?

Israel has done what it was asked to do. When has our government asked for Israel to help fight our battles in the Middle East? They have provided intelligence and other covert support to this country for decades. What do you suppose would have happened to our alliances with Muslim countries and factions if Israeli soldiers had fought beside of our troops in Iraq, Kuwait, and Afghanistan?

^I completely agree with Hoot Gibson. I would like to remind everyone that Israel's enemies attack Israel because of a "religious hatred" (I guess you could call it that). Radical Islamists are taught from childhood to hate the Jews. They've also been taught that the Jews took their land. This is obviously false and unethical.

In addition to what Hoot Gibson said, we defend Israel because we refuse to let an entire ethnic group that has never done anything wrong to experience a second holocaust. Israel gave up the Gaza strip to the Palestinians, Hamas moved in to attack Israel, and Israel is now having to deal with Hamas. Israel is the one who should be praised by the international community in this conflict, not Hamas. We also have to prevent Hamas from distracting our attention from Iran, who is still working as fast as they can to make a nuclear weapon. A crazed, radical Islamic fantasist like Ahmedinejad should not have the right of having a nuclear weapon. If he does, it will cause World War III - which will involve the use of nuclear weapons. I guarantee you that.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/21/world/meas...?hpt=hp_c1

Israel and Hamas (a terrorist group by the way) has declared a ceasefire. Of course, terrorists groups never actually declare ceasefires. They'll be attacking Israel sometime in the future. To be honest, I'm surprised no one has posted this yet. I was expecting someone else to post this information.

I'm making the prediction that Israel will be in another war by springtime of next year.

Deathstar 80 Wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/21/world/meas...?hpt=hp_c1

Israel and Hamas (a terrorist group by the way) has declared a ceasefire. Of course, terrorists groups never actually declare ceasefires. They'll be attacking Israel sometime in the future. To be honest, I'm surprised no one has posted this yet. I was expecting someone else to post this information.

I'm making the prediction that Israel will be in another war by springtime of next year.

Israel needs to either shit or get off of the pot. Bomb the hell out of them or hush.

TheRealVille Wrote:Israel needs to either shit or get off of the pot. Bomb the hell out of them or hush.

Just to remind you, it's not Israel that wants this conflict. It's the terrorist organization called Hamas that wants to have innocent civilians killed. And if Israel heavily bombs the Gaza strip, they'll be labeled as killing innocent civilians. Just look how they're being labeled right now. Hamas shot rockets in Israel while intentionally using innocent civilians as human shields (both are war crimes). However, if you've been watching news networks like CNN, you'll know that Israel is labeled as the "evil oppressor" that kills innocents while the Palestinians (btw, they should instead refer to Hamas) are the underdogs who needs to be shown mercy. If Israel heavily bombs the Gaza strip, the media and international community will be 10x more strict and severe against Israel.

In my opinion, I think Israel needs to tell Gaza civilians to evacuate the area. Next, Israel needs to have a ground invasion of the Gaza strip and take that land permanently. Then, civilians who previously lived in Gaza can move in and the government can help pay for any damage done to private land.

TheRealVille Wrote:Israel needs to either shit or get off of the pot. Bomb the hell out of them or hush.

I agree. Netanyahu needs to tell Obama and Clinton to mind their own business and do whatever it takes to protect Israeli citizens. Hamas fired at least a dozen missiles into Israel after the ceasefire and declared victory. They blew up a bus as they were negotiating the terms of the ceasefire.

Hoot Gibson Wrote:I agree. Netanyahu needs to tell Obama and Clinton to mind their own business and do whatever it takes to protect Israeli citizens. Hamas fired at least a dozen missiles into Israel after the ceasefire and declared victory. They blew up a bus as they were negotiating the terms of the ceasefire.

I can't believe the people from Hamas! You have Israel, who is trying to do the honorable and decent thing in trying to avoid civilian casualties. Then, you have Hamas who is shooting rockets into cities while hiding behind innocent civilians. And to make things more disturbing, the international media heavily attacks Israel and shows Hamas as the oppressed underdog. This is completely pathetic. It just shows how much antisemitism still exists in the world.

In my opinion, terrorist organizations should not be labeled as oppressed underdogs. Just my opinion, though...

Hoot Gibson Wrote:You may be right, but I suspect that because Obama no longer needs Jewish campaign donations and votes and because he is an anti-Semite, he will gladly demonize Israel for causing "civilian" deaths and stand by idly as Israel takes on its enemies alone.

Anti-semite? Any proof on that man? That the leader of the free world is an anti-Semite?

Hoot Gibson Wrote:You are probably too young to understand how Israel arrived at this point in history, Beetle. Israel was attacked by the armed forces of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. Israel won that war and occupied territory that it deemed necessary to secure its borders. Beginning with Jimmy Carter, the United States began pressuring Israel to surrender pieces of the occupied territory for peace. It has not mattered whether our government has been controlled by Democrats or Republicans, the U.S. has continued to apply pressure to Israeli leaders to give up the land that they won in the Six Days War.

Now, having given up the Gaza Strip to Palestinians and the Sinai Peninsula, rockets are raining down upon Tel Aviv and Jerusalem from Gaza, and reportedly Egyptian soil as well.

The United States helped put Israel in its current predicament. You say that we are targeted by Islamic radicals because of our support of Israel. I say that we are being targeting because, in part, we have undermined what was Israel's position of strength following the 1967 War.

The least that the United States can do is to drop the calls for Israel to "exercise restraint" when responding to unprovoked rocket attacks that are being launched from territory that Israel has already traded for "peace," at America's urging.

The time for the U.S. to keep its nose out of Israel's business passed long ago. We have a moral obligation to support Israel, but voters just cast their lot with an immoral president to manage foreign policy. Israel deserves a better fate and so do we.

No, we do not.

This is a lose-lose situation for Israel. Either absolutely destroy them and end this, or endure. I vote for the former, but of course, they can't do that because the enemy, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran ect, are cowards and hide behind civilians. Alot like Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

vundy33 Wrote:Anti-semite? Any proof on that man? That the leader of the free world is an anti-Semite?

Exhibit A is his choice of Rev. Jeremiah Wright as his spiritual leader for more than two decades. He only distanced himself from Wright for political expediency. Do you need any proof that Wright is a Jew hater? The leader of the free world has found plenty of time to visit political and spiritual leaders in Muslim countries around the world. Yet, he could not find time to visit Israel, our closest ally and the only democracy in the Middle East in his first term. If you are looking for a signed confession, you will not find one but there is a preponderance of evidence, IMO.

vundy33 Wrote:No, we do not.

Yes, we do. They have been executing our foreign policy to their own detriment since Jimmy Carter was president.

vundy33 Wrote:Anti-semite? Any proof on that man? That the leader of the free world is an anti-Semite?

I won't claim that President Obama is an anti-semite, but I will claim that he's anti-Israel. Here's the evidence:

1) Obama and Sarkozy
2) Obama not meeting with Netanyahu.
3) Obama wants Israel to stop housing constructions.
4) Obama calls for pre-1967 borders for peace talks.
5) Obama and Netanyahu having dinner.
6) U.S. blocks security council censure for Israeli settlemenents.

Again, I don't know why Obama doesn't like Israel. All I know is that his actions say that he's heavily against Israel.

vundy33 Wrote:No, we do not.

We do have a moral obligation. In Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech to congress a few years ago, he made the true statement that Israel has no bigger ally than America and America has no bigger ally than Israel. Because we are such close allies and because of the fact that Israel is defending itself, we have a moral obligation to help defend our closest ally.