OK this is just my opinion but wanted to know others thoughts.
The All A is losing it's small school feel that has made it so popular through the years. IMO the cap for enrollment should be at 450 or less. If it is only going to be for the "Little Guys" then it should be for those schools only. The 15th Region is basically filled with schools in the "All A". I have been told that East Ridge will be in the tournament next year. How can this be? We are talking about a consolidated school, made up of three former "All A" schools (Elkhorn, Millard, Feds Creek) but now will be single A for basketball.
Are u kiddin me? Just saying....
Knott Central from the 14th with all of their talent they have coming back is also going to be in the so called "All A" tourney too.
That's What She Said Wrote:OK this is just my opinion but wanted to know others thoughts.
The All A is losing it's small school feel that has made it so popular through the years. IMO the cap for enrollment should be at 450 or less. If it is only going to be for the "Little Guys" then it should be for those schools only. The 15th Region is basically filled with schools in the "All A". I have been told that East Ridge will be in the tournament next year. How can this be? We are talking about a consolidated school, made up of three former "All A" schools (Elkhorn, Millard, Feds Creek) but now will be single A for basketball.
Are u kiddin me? Just saying....
Not defending it at all, just pointing out the reasoning I heard behind it. But they said the declining number of true "small" schools led to them bumping up the enrollment limit so they can keep it going, basically. I'm definitely not a fan of it, and I agree, enrollment should be capped somewhere in the 450-500 mark in the top 4 grades.
^ What is the current enrollment cap set for the top 4 grades?
LCDawg Wrote:^ What is the current enrollment cap set for the top 4 grades?
No enrollment cap... All "A" in basketball is just the 125 smallest schools in the state. Not really 100% on the 125 number but its somewhere around that.
They need to make changes. Maybe smallest 75 schools? I know consolidation has really hurt this tournament, but continuously allowing bigger and bigger schools is not the fix. Next year the 15th All "A" will have every school but Belfry, Johnson Central, and Pike Central.
125 smallest but once one of those opts not to compete they go to the next smallest, think this year they are up to 137 since 12 of the smallers declined.
With smallest 125 you are playing essentially about 50% of the high schools of Kentucky, this number should be dropped to about 30%
I've talked with several small schools in eastern Kentucky and they have indicatred they are going to drop out after next year. State tournaments are 5-6 hours away in non revenue sports. Schedules are tight and not worth the trouble if they have to compete with school that have 600+ students. They compete against those schools already. Sad that the ALL A will not listen. A small school district Superintendent sent a letter to all the small schools and ALL A reps, but they blew him off.
Sounds like non-participation may be the only thing that gets their attention.
Blame consolidation. I hate consolidation, hate everything it stands for. There arent any small school rivalries anymore. I was looking at the schedule for my Soph. year of football ('91), and 6 out of the 10 schools no longer exist, and just about EVERY game was a rivalry.
Elkhorn City, Johns Creek, Evarts, Neon, Whitesburg, Wheelwright...I remember scrimmaging MC Napier earlier that year, right before the season started..The All A Classic may as well be abandoned. One of my fondest memories was going with a bunch of my buddies and watching Cavanaugh Trent hit a 10 footer with 5 seconds left and Dilce Combs knocks off Fulton County 67-66 in OT..best game Ive ever been to, bar none. THAT'S the All-A I remember, not piling 3, 4 and 5a teams in it because of some numbers bullshit.
The All A needs to stop with the "smallest 125 schools" nonsense and set an enrollment cap number. My suggestion, if they truly want a small school state tournament, is set the number at no more than 400 enrollment. When you get up into enrollments of 500/600, well I'm sorry but that is not a small school.
If they want to keep it as it now is then they need to change the name to All AA Classic. Call it what it is.
Now we have six classes in football here is an ideal...
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Use the football classifications and have an All "A" AND All "AA" region and sectional. Then bring in the rest for a final four. That would give you 16 teams (boys and girls). Or have two sperate state tournaments just like we do now....
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How many schools does Ky have? I would like to know the percent or maybe the number in each class, THANKS
LOOKAYANNER Wrote:The All A needs to stop with the "smallest 125 schools" nonsense and set an enrollment cap number. My suggestion, if they truly want a small school state tournament, is set the number at no more than 400 enrollment. When you get up into enrollments of 500/600, well I'm sorry but that is not a small school.
If they want to keep it as it now is then they need to change the name to All AA Classic. Call it what it is.
I think the All "A" has allowed too many larger schools to participate, but 400 is probably too small. Evarts and Cumberland were Class A schools in the 80s and had over 500 students. When you fall below 600 students the school isn't that big.
does anyone know what the state's high school enrollment average is? around 800?
The thing is, everyone's perception of what is a "small school" is different. In the end, it's just one person's opinion against another.
Take my school, Shelby Valley, for example. They are frequently targeted around EKY as one of the offending schools in this discussion. Their most recent enrollment in 2011/12 was listed with the KHSAA as 588. Now, that is certainly more than a school like Pikeville, listed at 340. But in comparison to a school like Ballard, who is just shy of 2000 students, SV certainly seemed like the small school to the crowd in Rupp watching them play for the state title a couple years ago. And for that matter, Pikeville and its 340 students probably seems big to a school like Fulton City with 113 kids. It's all about perspective. The funny thing is, when Shelby Valley was first born, it WAS a big school, at least compared to the two schools it consolidated. The first year for SV in 1990, I believe the enrollment was close to 900. But as EKY has seen its population shrink, so have the enrollment numbers at SV, now under 600. I imagine that number will continue to gradually decline in the coming years as well.
Point being, in the end, any enrollment cutoff is simply an arbitrary number. If you set the limit at 450, does that mean that the school with 451 students is not a "small school", but the one with 449 is? No, but you have to cut it off somewhere. No matter what the number, those just on the other side of it will feel left out. Looking at football, schools are not classified based on a random number either, but in comparison to other schools, i.e., the smallest 32 schools become 1A, and so on. When you look at the numbers, the smallest 2A school is just barely bigger than the biggest 1A school. But you have to have a division somewhere, and that's just the way it is.
Then again, if people REALLY wanted to make the All-A just for "small schools", who's to say it shouldn't be for those with enrollment under 300? Or 250? Or even 200?
Panther Thunder Wrote:They need to make changes. Maybe smallest 75 schools? I know consolidation has really hurt this tournament, but continuously allowing bigger and bigger schools is not the fix. Next year the 15th All "A" will have every school but Belfry, Johnson Central, and Pike Central.
They have tried to maintain a 16 region format. Dropping down to
75 schools makes that more difficult. The tourney does seem to
be losing it's impetus though. Maybe they should return it to its
original format, and make it an invitational event. And they could
use an average of the Lit-Cantrell rankings to pick the 16 highest
rated schools of X enrollment or less.
One thing about it, it helped stifle the little remaining sentiment
for going to classes in Ky. basketball, so THAT was a good thing.
One thing to remember is the fact winning an All "A" Regional title is a big deal to a lot of schools. Of course some regions have only one or two "A" schools, but here in the mountains the All "A" is a big deal and just getting to play in it is a highlight of the season for kids who play on a team that will never get to play in the end of the year region.
400 would be perfect, go to 8 regions if you have to and take winner and runner-up.
The tournament has always had schools bigger than enrollments of 400. If you cut the number of schools too much or reduce regions I think you would put it out of business.
A previous poster was correct. Enrollments, especially in eastern Kentucky, have dropped considerably. There is no easy answer.
The All A seemed to have a lot more energy and fan interest when it went state wide in 1990, and then throughout the 1990s and the early 2000s. But over the last 5 or 6 years the interest just doesn't to be as big. The crowds in the 1990 tournament at Memorial Coliseum were large and the tournament had a big time feel to it. Same in the '90s when it moved to EKU. But it seems lately it has lost some of its steam, imo. I don't know what the answer but some kind of change needs to be made to get it headed back in the right direction.
LOOKAYANNER Wrote:The All A seemed to have a lot more energy and fan interest when it went state wide in 1990, and then throughout the 1990s and the early 2000s. But over the last 5 or 6 years the interest just doesn't to be as big. The crowds in the 1990 tournament at Memorial Coliseum were large and the tournament had a big time feel to it. Same in the '90s when it moved to EKU. But it seems lately it has lost some of its steam, imo. I don't know what the answer but some kind of change needs to be made to get it headed back in the right direction.
That unfortunately is becoming a common thing STATEWIDE, regardless
of school size. And this year's Sweet 16 was down in attendance too
wasn't it?
The All "A" has lost its roots.
Is it there to make money or is it there to give small schools a chance they normally wouldn't have?
It probably needs to go back to girls/boys basketball and baseball/softball.
Anyone got a breakdown of teams by region?
region Wrote:The All "A" has lost its roots.
Is it there to make money or is it there to give small schools a chance they normally wouldn't have?
It probably needs to go back to girls/boys basketball and baseball/softball.
Anyone got a breakdown of teams by region?
Someone finally got it right, it's just there to make money now!!! The poster that said that they start with the smallest 125 schools is exactly right. I heard a few years ago that they had to go all the way down to the 167th school!!! Small schools??? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but only about 290 schools total play basketball don't they????