Bluegrassrivals

I think I have a better understanding from the members of this site, but just to be sure what programs fall under the term "welfare"

Social Security
SSI
SSA
cash assistance (TANF)
the child support program
child care
energy or utility assistance
food assistance
medical assistance
vocational rehabilitation services.
health care
unemployment
housing assistance

Is there anything to add or take away from this list?

I wouldn't put Social Security under the "welfare" banner. The vast majority of seniors have paided into that system.

SSI- same thing although it needs to be reformed and get those that are cheating the system out

I agree with the list except for SSI, a little torn on that one. However, I will say the system has improved somewhat with the implementation of the EBT card to replace food stamps so that people's spending can be monitored. I just wish the system was more stringent and not so forgiving to those who are capable to work and provide for their families.

Social Security is not welfare. You pay for that, at least I do. Unemployment is not welfare either.

I dont count SS or Unemployment. Nor do I count Medicare. So disregarding those in 2011 the US Govt, not counting any state spending, just federal, spent 631 billion on welfare. 903 billion on defense, and by this chart Im assuming old age pensions is social security and that was 793 billion. We had a deficit of 1.6 trillion. Now by 2016 even with SS going up to over 1 trillion dollars and defense staying about the same and welfare going up slightly, and almost 600billion in interest payments, up from 200billion from last year, our deficit will only be around 600billion.


There is plenty of trimming that can be done do balance the budget and start paying off the debt. Basically in 2016 based on projections our budget shortfall will be because of interest. Cut back on defense spending some (get out of these stupid wars and don't start a new one with Iran unless forced to), cut back welfare a lot, maybe find some alternatives for SS or at least explore some options we may just end up eating all that but we will have to get by.

Any program that I pay into with the contractual promise from the govt that I will get it back in the future when I vest in it or become eligible to receive it, is not welfare in my book. To think otherwise would be akin to calling life insurance payments welfare, when in reality I paid the premiums during my life in order to receive the benefits of the policy when I die.

So what is the government program that everyone hates on? I'm confused.

LWC Wrote:So what is the government program that everyone hates on? I'm confused.

TANF- which is cash for families - needs to go
Benefits for Immigrants - definitely needs to go
Medicaid for anyone other than the elderly needs to go
The Food Stamp program needs to go.
Education vouchers need to go

And before anyone jumps in asking about the kids, I left out the Child Support and Child nutrition programs.

Like I said I work in a ER, 90% of our patients are people in there on the govt dime looking for drugs. I do not exaggerate when I say 90%. Most are in there multiple times every week.

We had one guy the other night who had got Fentanyl patches, 90 pills of Roxicet 30mg, and Xanax 1mg 50 pills the day before. He was asking for pain meds. Of course he didnt get anything, and he tried to fight the doctor and got dragged out after signing out AMA.

Plus its not like these people come in complaining of simple things, most of the time is chest pain, abdomen and back pain, head pain (oh and dont say it may be a headache), they say its something different. So the Doctors and Nurses have no choice but to order up expensive tests, because we have to protect our licenses just in case this one guy does actually have a head bleed or is having a heart attack. Then a lot of times after they get their meds they are intent on staying so these massive bills are built up 10, 20, 50k bills. Then on top of all that BS, while they are taking time away from everyone who really is sick and needs care, they want everyone to be their maid and servant. And you wanna know the sick thing about it, due to Obama care, how these people rate the service will depend on how much money they govt is going to give the hospital that its owed for services. If they dont meet certain ratings the govt with withhold medicare and medicaid money. Not just measly bucks either, in a few years it will be millions that are at risk for each hospital. So a couple of bad years of bad rating can cost a lot of hard working people their jobs, not to mention the quality of healthcare will go down as the doctors, nurses, and other medical staff will be to understaffed to give the proper treatment. Which could be you, you child, or another family member.

I dont want this to turn into an Obamacare thread so lets steer away from that, it does have some good things in it, but they went way to far with others. I do believe our country can afford to help take care of the sick but their need to be limits, and mainly for emergent or chronic problems. I mean I dont even have insurance right now because I switched to a new job a few months ago and there is that dreaded waiting period. Luckily I dont have any immediate health issues so its okay, but if something were to happen and I ended up needing emergent and serious care I could be screwed unless I was treated at St. Mary's.

"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one CLAIMED THAT ANY OF HIS POSSESSIONS WAS HIS OWN, BUT THEY SHARED EVERYTHING THEY HAD. ...There were NO NEEDY PERSONS among them because from time to time THOSE WHO OWNED LANDS OR HOUSES SOLD THEM, and brought the money from the sales to the apostle's feet, and it was distributed TO ANYONE AS HE OR SHE HAD NEED." (Book of Acts, chapter 4, verses 32, 34, 35)...

Early Christianity was compassionate capitalism...a FAR CRY from what we have now, which is predatory capitalism...and doomed... and I mean big time... read Revelation 18 and put on your thinking cap... maybe pray... and watch....

Beetle01 Wrote:TANF- which is cash for families - needs to go
Benefits for Immigrants - definitely needs to go
Medicaid for anyone other than the elderly needs to go
The Food Stamp program needs to go.
Education vouchers need to go

And before anyone jumps in asking about the kids, I left out the Child Support and Child nutrition programs.

Like I said I work in a ER, 90% of our patients are people in there on the govt dime looking for drugs. I do not exaggerate when I say 90%. Most are in there multiple times every week.

We had one guy the other night who had got Fentanyl patches, 90 pills of Roxicet 30mg, and Xanax 1mg 50 pills the day before. He was asking for pain meds. Of course he didnt get anything, and he tried to fight the doctor and got dragged out after signing out AMA.

Plus its not like these people come in complaining of simple things, most of the time is chest pain, abdomen and back pain, head pain (oh and dont say it may be a headache), they say its something different. So the Doctors and Nurses have no choice but to order up expensive tests, because we have to protect our licenses just in case this one guy does actually have a head bleed or is having a heart attack. Then a lot of times after they get their meds they are intent on staying so these massive bills are built up 10, 20, 50k bills. Then on top of all that BS, while they are taking time away from everyone who really is sick and needs care, they want everyone to be their maid and servant. And you wanna know the sick thing about it, due to Obama care, how these people rate the service will depend on how much money they govt is going to give the hospital that its owed for services. If they dont meet certain ratings the govt with withhold medicare and medicaid money. Not just measly bucks either, in a few years it will be millions that are at risk for each hospital. So a couple of bad years of bad rating can cost a lot of hard working people their jobs, not to mention the quality of healthcare will go down as the doctors, nurses, and other medical staff will be to understaffed to give the proper treatment. Which could be you, you child, or another family member.

I dont want this to turn into an Obamacare thread so lets steer away from that, it does have some good things in it, but they went way to far with others. I do believe our country can afford to help take care of the sick but their need to be limits, and mainly for emergent or chronic problems. I mean I dont even have insurance right now because I switched to a new job a few months ago and there is that dreaded waiting period. Luckily I dont have any immediate health issues so its okay, but if something were to happen and I ended up needing emergent and serious care I could be screwed unless I was treated at St. Mary's.

110% agree with this post.
Do away with those things, and our country gets better.

However as far as education vouchers go, i have no problem with kids who need financial help for going to college to get the money they need.
If a kid has enough aspiration to go to college and keep his head on straight i see no problem with PELL grants and other things the govt does to help kids whos parents simply cant, especially with the ridicolous cost of tuition these days.
Giving money to immigrants or like in CA, illegal immigrants, needs to be the first thing to go.

On the Statue of Liberty...at Ellis Island:

"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free."

Should we just take the old gal down? After all, she was a gift from those pesky French... we need be careful, as more than abortion and homosexuality, the Scriptures teach the "god" being judges nations on how they treat the poor and the "stranger" (immigrant)... Please remember that Jesus' family when he was an infant was a refugee family seeking asylum... geez, guys, how did you get this way? I know you hate bleeding hearts... but a compassionate, merciful heart IS fundamentally Christian, and, hey, ain't we a "Christian nation"?

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:110% agree with this post.
Do away with those things, and our country gets better.

However as far as education vouchers go, i have no problem with kids who need financial help for going to college to get the money they need.
If a kid has enough aspiration to go to college and keep his head on straight i see no problem with PELL grants and other things the govt does to help kids whos parents simply cant, especially with the ridicolous cost of tuition these days.
Giving money to immigrants or like in CA, illegal immigrants, needs to be the first thing to go.

"If a kid has enough aspiration to go to college and keep his head on straight" and works his way through college, why can't most of them? For some reason our high school students that want to go to college think they are entitled to either their parents money or tax dollars funding their education. Who has set the standard that kids have to finish up in 4 years? Slow down, find a good community college and at LEAST work for half of your college degree. After their "aspiration" is proven, then "help" can be considered. It works for a whole lot of kids.

SKINNYPIG Wrote:"If a kid has enough aspiration to go to college and keep his head on straight" and works his way through college, why can't most of them? For some reason our high school students that want to go to college think they are entitled to either their parents money or tax dollars funding their education. Who has set the standard that kids have to finish up in 4 years? Slow down, find a good community college and at LEAST work for half of your college degree. After their "aspiration" is proven, then "help" can be considered. It works for a whole lot of kids.

I agree with students thinking they are entitled. My son did not submit his scholarship paperwork in on time and he didn't seem to concerned over it because his counselor told him he could get plenty of finanical assistance. This was not true, for him to attend UK this year, he has to live with family and keep a steady job all while keeping a full class schedule. Thankfully I work at UK so that he could get a tuition discount or he would not have been able to enroll........with that being said, I am somewhat glad it has been difficult on him. Builds his character that he has to work for something especially when it didn't come easy.

Student financial aid is not what it used to be when I went to school.

HOGWOLLOP Wrote:On the Statue of Liberty...at Ellis Island:

"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free."

Should we just take the old gal down? After all, she was a gift from those pesky French... we need be careful, as more than abortion and homosexuality, the Scriptures teach the "god" being judges nations on how they treat the poor and the "stranger" (immigrant)... Please remember that Jesus' family when he was an infant was a refugee family seeking asylum... geez, guys, how did you get this way? I know you hate bleeding hearts... but a compassionate, merciful heart IS fundamentally Christian, and, hey, ain't we a "Christian nation"?

Not the government's role

At the turn of the last century when the huddled masses yearning to be free came over though Ellis Island the government didn't give them hand outs. They took care of their own though mutual aid societies.

by the way you do know that the Statue of Liberty isn't on Ellis Island right? And that it wasn't built to welcome immigrants right?

when i think of welfare i look back and think of the people that are lazy and useless and they dont wont to do nothing

Beetle1, I agree with everything on your list, except Food Stamps.

For every person that severely abuses the system, there are people that generally need it. Remember when we all seemed to agree on keeping SSI and SSA disability benefits? (For disabled workers and people born disabled) I know many people who legitimately need and draw SSA or SSI benefits (whichever is for people born disabled, and have absolutely no way to work, even though it is abused) and they get a whopping $600 per month or an astounding $7200 per year. Those people need the Food Stamps.

It is so sad that people can get these benefits and abuse them but we have to remember that groceries are going up in cost too. It seems like every time I leave Save-A-Lot or Kroger, I can carry $80 worth in two hands or $100 wont fill my cart to the top. How does a $600 per month pay for groceries, for rent, medical stuff, etc...

Some of these programs are good, but we have to be careful when we say cut them. I do believe however that MAJOR overhaul is needed. It needs to be tightened up. Maybe the government can ever create jobs that are simple for people that are somewhat-disabled to do. (Maybe Autistic people can fold pizza boxes, maybe the morbidly obese in weight people can work from home doing computer things, etc...) Obviously there isn't a lot that blind, vegtabled, etc... people can do so I guess it is impossible to make that fair, but we pay congressmen and women good money to come up with solutions.

LWC, my intention is not to cut off those who are legitimately disabled whether from birth, accident, or other way.

Obviously there needs to be an overhaul of the system and a way to verify disability. I mean I see people who are on disability for freaking diabetes.

I would like the see us close down a lot of these other systems and then start a new one. Maybe an American Disability Fund Act or something like that.

Healthcare can be covered.
Then roll in everything into a single system for them. Cash for living, a local or regional office that will handle paying for bills, house/utilities.

At the very least the food stamps needs to be overhauled. Perhaps a system where only certain items can be purchased with food stamps. Not 15 red bulls, 10 cases of soda, and boxes of twinkies. At the local grocery store there will be an aisle or 2 that will contain these products, plus areas in the fridge sections an all that. Sure these people can still purchase some sweets and that, not denying them their rights, but if you are accepting tax payer help, there are going to be rules.

We will offer tax incentives to the Food industry or to those who can provide healthy items for these aisles at a low cost. We are all in this together.

HOGWOLLOP Wrote:On the Statue of Liberty...at Ellis Island:

"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free."

Should we just take the old gal down? After all, she was a gift from those pesky French... we need be careful, as more than abortion and homosexuality, the Scriptures teach the "god" being judges nations on how they treat the poor and the "stranger" (immigrant)... Please remember that Jesus' family when he was an infant was a refugee family seeking asylum... geez, guys, how did you get this way? I know you hate bleeding hearts... but a compassionate, merciful heart IS fundamentally Christian, and, hey, ain't we a "Christian nation"?

God doesn't belong in this discussion. Only people like yourself, who can't talk to someone or make a post without going on and on about your religion and trying to relate it to any and every subject, try to throw religion into every single argument when it doesn't even come close to belonging there. This isn't about being "compassionate" or anything else like that..it's about trying to expose the frauds that steal from the government and waste our money, they take it away from other programs that need it so much more because they're to sorry to get up off their ass and get a job. It's just easier for them to get a check for nothing every month. Saving money is what it's about...it's not a morality issue.

therealville Wrote:social security is not welfare. You pay for that, at least i do. Unemployment is not welfare either.

unemployment past the standard time frame is welfare no 99 wks