From the Fox News website:
Quote:Israelis are evenly divided over whether their country should carry out a military strike against Iran's nuclear program, according to a poll published Thursday.
The poll was released following reports that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to persuade Cabinet ministers to authorize such a strike and after Israel successfully tested a missile said capable of carrying a nuclear warhead to Iran.
Israel insists Iran is working on nuclear weapons, despite Iranian denials. It was unclear whether Netanyahu actually favors a military strike or is trying to prod the international community into taking a tougher line on Iran. Ordering an attack is not a decision he would take alone, but rather he would need the approval of his Cabinet ministers.
Forty-one percent of those questioned by the Dialog polling institute said they would back an Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, which many Israelis believe were built to produce bombs.
A similar number -- 39 percent -- oppose such an attack, which would be fraught with logistical difficulties and risk a deadly Iranian counterstrike and regional mayhem. Twenty percent were undecided.
The survey, published and commissioned by the Israeli Haaretz daily, surveyed 495 people on Wednesday and quoted a margin of error of 4.6 percentage points. The Dialog agency said its random sample represented Israeli adults.
Although the poll appeared to reflect a divided nation, the fact that four out of 10 Israelis would support a strike is noteworthy, given the implications. On Wednesday, Iran's military chief threatened a fierce retaliation against Israel should it attack Iranian nuclear installations.
Previous polls over the years have indicated similar divisions, with significant numbers of Israelis in favor and against military action. The numbers reflect the gravity in which the public perceives both the threat from Iran and the consequences of an Israeli attack that could trigger an all-out war.
Israel considers Iran to be its greatest threat, citing Tehran's nuclear program, its president's repeated references to destruction of the Jewish state and Iran's support for Palestinian and Lebanese militant groups.
For years, Israeli leaders have appealed to the world community to impose tough economic sanctions to pressure the Iranians to dismantle their nuclear installations.
They have also said Israel cannot tolerate a nuclear-armed Iran and consistently have not ruled out a military attack.
There are precedents for such a strike. In 1981, Israeli aircraft bombed an unfinished nuclear reactor in Iraq, destroying that country's nuclear program. Israeli warplanes also destroyed a site in Syria in 2007 that the U.N. nuclear watchdog deemed a secretly built nuclear reactor, though
Israel's government never acknowledged responsibility for the attack.
An attack on Iran's program would be substantially more difficult because Iranian nuclear facilities are scattered, and some are mobile and built underground. Because they are not concentrated at a single site, it would be extremely difficult for Israel to cripple the program in a single airstrike.
In this charged climate, the Israeli military reported on Wednesday that it successfully tested an advanced long-range missile said to be capable of carrying a nuclear warhead to Iran. Military officials also confirmed the air force conducted a drill last week with Italian warplanes in Sardinia.
The Israeli military's home front command is carrying out a drill this week, ending Thursday, simulating a variety of attack scenarios, such as rocket barrages, chemical and biological attacks.
The military said this exercise had been in the planning for months.
International powers doubt Iran's claims that its nuclear program is designed to produce energy, not weapons, but sanctions have so far failed to persuade Tehran to put all of its nuclear facilities under international inspection.
The U.N. nuclear agency is due to focus on the Iranian program at a meeting later this month. The West wants to set a deadline for Iran to start cooperating with an agency probe of suspicions that Tehran is secretly experimenting with components of nuclear weapons.
Here's the link:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/03/...z1cjnZUf1y
From the CNN website:
Quote:Iran threatens to 'punish' any Israeli attack
Iran issued a warning to Israel on Wednesday, with a top military figure saying Iran will "punish" any threat.
"The United States is fully aware that a military attack by the Zionist regime on Iran will not only cause tremendous damage to that regime, but it will also inflict serious damage to the U.S.," said Gen. Hassan Firouzabadi, commander of the joint chiefs of staff, according to the semi-official Fars News Agency.
"We, as the military, take every threat, however distant and improbable, as very real, and are fully prepared to use suitable equipment to punish any kind of mistake," he added, according to a CNN translation of his remarks.
Another semi-official Iranian news agency, ISNA, published a story in English quoting Firouzabadi as saying, "The U.S. officials know that Zionist regime's military attack against Iran will inflict heavy damages to the U.S. seriously as well as Zionist regime."
The Israeli Ministry of Defense said Wednesday that Israel "carried out the test-firing of a rocket propulsion system from the Palmachim military base. This had been planned by the Defense Establishment a long time ago and was carried out as scheduled."
"This is an impressive technological achievement and an important step in Israel's advances in the realms of missiles and space," said Defense Minister Ehud Barak.
The comments from Iran and the Israeli missile test come as a very public debate is taking place in Israel about the possibility of a military strike on the Islamic republic.
Last week, Israel's largest newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, published a report that suggested Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Barak both supported a strike against Iran's nuclear program.
That story was followed up Wednesday by a report in the Israeli daily Haaretz that Netanyahu was lobbying members of his cabinet to support a military strike against Iran despite the various difficulties inherent in such an operation. The paper attributed the information to a senior Israeli official, but did not disclose identity of their source.
Israeli and U.S. officials have expressed concerns that Iran is building nuclear weapons, despite Tehran's insistence that its nuclear program is for peaceful energy purposes.
The publication of the two reports in the Israeli media brought criticism from cabinet members.
"A public debate about this is nothing less than a scandal. I don't think we've ever had anything like it," Dan Meridor, deputy prime minister and intelligence minister, told the Israeli newspaper Maariv. "The public elected a government to make decisions about things like this in secret. The public's right to know does not include the debate about classified matters like this."
Speaking to Israeli radio, Benny Begin, a minister without portfolio, called the public debate about Iran "a crazy free-for-all" and criticized former Israeli intelligence officials for speaking too openly about government deliberations on Iran.
The prime minister's office would not comment on the newspaper reports and referred reporters to comments he made about Iran on Monday.
"Regional powers who have control in the Middle East will try to ensure they have greater influence on the new regimes -- influence that will not always support us or be of benefit to us, to say the least," Netanyahu said to Israeli legislators during the opening session of the Knesset.
"One of these regional forces is Iran, which continues its efforts to obtain nuclear weapons. A nuclear Iran would pose a dire threat on the Middle East and on the entire world. And of course, it poses a grave, direct threat on us too... We operate and will continue to operate intensely and determinately against those who threaten the security of the state of Israel and its citizens."
Here's the link:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/02/world/meas...?hpt=wo_c2
As long as they leave us alone i could care less.
To be honest, i think the U.S. would be better off to just stay out of it, no matter tha consequences for Isreal.
I think we would stay out of it. Only way we'd be involved, in my opinion, is if Iran hit Israel with a nuke, which won't happen.
"The United States is fully aware that a military attack by the Zionist regime on Iran will not only cause tremendous damage to that regime, but it will also inflict serious damage to the U.S.," said Gen. Hassan Firouzabadi.
Sure. That's a pretty big statement from the Iranian commander of the joint chiefs of staff...to be honest, I don't think Iran could do much about it. It's hard enough for Israel to hit Iran...it'd be alot tougher for Iran to retaliate, especially when Israel would know it's coming.
And including the U.S. in a retaliation just goes to show how crazy and ridiculous the Iranian government is. They forget pretty easily that we have over 100,000 troops on their eastern border, and nearly 50,000 to their west.
We've put up with them helping the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan for almost 10 years. They've been directly responsible for U.S. deaths. Even after they helped us take Kandahar and Kabul in 2001 and 2002. Hitting any U.S. forces outright, in response to a Israeli attack, is crazy and asking for and end to the Iranian government. Our government won't put up with it.
Regardless, I don't think they'll touch Israel, much less us. If they do, they obviously don't care about their lives.
Here's a video I personally think is interesting to watch. I think it was created in 2009. Here's the video:
[YOUTUBE="Brink of Nuclear War"]<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Id_kO4Vl0hE&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Id_kO4Vl0hE&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
Has anyone heard this story before? I thought it was interesting.
I'd like to see some proof before I believe that. With the way the Israeli's are talking so publicly about Iran, and with some of there recent decisions, I don't think they or anyone else would keep this quite. Also, I think if they figured out a Iranian plan to hit them, especially with a nuclear weapon of some kind, they'd hit them ASAP.
Also, including religious beliefs in a war plan, whether it be offensive or defensive, always gets you killed. Ask Al-Qaeda.
Israel needs to take care of themselves, and America needs to take care of ourselves.
TheRealVille Wrote:Israel needs to take care of themselves, and America needs to take care of ourselves.
So we shouldn't have ANY allies around the world? We shouldn't help anyone but ourselves? Or is it just Isreal we should ignore?
I don't think he means ignore them, but right now our resources are stretched really thin. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, we come first.
vundy33 Wrote:I don't think he means ignore them, but right now our resources are stretched really thin. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, we come first.
With all due respect Vundy, I think he meant just what he said. Israel is our best ally in the region, spread thin or not, how can we justify cutting them loose?
Words of weakness and cowardice remarks towards our allies have been more prevalent since our little President BHO took office. I firmly believe TRV would not have uttered those words if Barry wasn't our President.
SKINNYPIG Wrote:With all due respect Vundy, I think he meant just what he said. Israel is our best ally in the region, spread thin or not, how can we justify cutting them loose?
Words of weakness and cowardice remarks towards our allies have been more prevalent since our little President BHO took office. I firmly believe TRV would not have uttered those words if Barry wasn't our President.
I meant exactly what Vundy said, and exactly what my words said. We don't have the resources to get involved with anything else right now. Our country needs to worry about us for a change. This country is strapped from tens years of multiple wars. Don't presume that my words mean anything other that what I say they mean, and they meant exactly what I said. Israel needs to take care of Israel, and US needs to take care of the US. It's plain and very simple words, even you should be able to understand.
How much of Israel's resources and military have they used in the last 10 years of our wars?
TheRealVille Wrote:I meant exactly what Vundy said, and exactly what my words said. We don't have the resources to get involved with anything else right now. Our country needs to worry about us for a change. This country is strapped from tens years of multiple wars. Don't presume that my words mean anything other that what I say they mean, and they meant exactly what I said. Israel needs to take care of Israel, and US needs to take care of the US. It's plain and very simple words, even you should be able to understand.
I fully understand. You think the greatest fighting force on earth is not capable of helping one of it's allies. It just sounds like a weak stance to me. Weakness has never been an attribute of this super power...Till now.
Do you feel the same way about all our foreign allies, or just Israel?
To be honest, being an ally of Israel hasn't gotten us much of anything. We've been at war on two fronts for quite a while. Going to war with Iran, when Israel is very capable of taking care of whatever problem arises, just doesn't make since. Of course we can help them out with logistics, but Afghanistan is taking an unbelievable amount of resources from us. We get into another full-fledged war, Afghan will be forgotten once again.
We've has Israel's back many more times than they've had ours. The way their government is going about defense is crazy. They have top officials discussing war plans and scenarios, not to mention the ridiculous POW trade.
SKINNYPIG Wrote:I fully understand. You think the greatest fighting force on earth is not capable of helping one of it's allies. It just sounds like a weak stance to me. Weakness has never been an attribute of this super power...Till now.
Do you feel the same way about all our foreign allies, or just Israel?
Man, we're not saying we're not capable, of course we're capable. We'd run all over Iran and any other Army on earth. But at the moment, with the state our country is in, we don't need to go balls deep into another war, especially along side Israel. The entire mid-east will be against us.
You just have no idea how thin we really are. Our best capability, Special Operations, is literally as thin as it could possibly get.
I just want to get this war over with and chill for a while.
You do what's right. If a friend needs help you help them.
SKINNYPIG Wrote:I fully understand. You think the greatest fighting force on earth is not capable of helping one of it's allies. It just sounds like a weak stance to me. Weakness has never been an attribute of this super power...Till now.
Do you feel the same way about all our foreign allies, or just Israel?
All of them. At least all of the ones that have offered us no help during these past 10 years. If you are going to use the "helping an ally" stance, maybe we should consider how much help our ally Israel has given us during the last 10 years? I say again, how much of Israel's military help, or monetary help, did we receive from them in our wars of late?
nky Wrote:You do what's right. If a friend needs help you help them.
I'll ask you the same question I asked of Skinnypig. How much has Israel help us during our last 10 years? I don't remember reading about their military being used against Iraq or Afghanistan helping us. Where was our friend, as you say, for us?
SKINNYPIG Wrote:I fully understand. You think the greatest fighting force on earth is not capable of helping one of it's allies. It just sounds like a weak stance to me. Weakness has never been an attribute of this super power...Till now.
Do you feel the same way about all our foreign allies, or just Israel?
It's pretty easy to sit here on this side of the world, behind a computer, and shout "go fight", when you aren't the one fighting, isn't it?
I feel the way I do towards all allies. It's not about what country needs our help, it's about our current situation. Like I said, we can help Israel or anyone else in any war or conflict...but a war with Iran needs to be avoided unless they directly engage us.
A war with Iran would be conventional, which means a shitload of money.
Also, I don't think we can not help Israel because they haven't helped us these past 10 years. If they had, we'd lose all allies in the region. Israel can't just help out a friend in a Muslim country and I understand that. The reason I'd be against heading into another war just because Israel is is because of our financial situation, and Afghan.
TheRealVille Wrote:It's pretty easy to sit here on this side of the world, behind a computer, and shout "go fight", when you aren't the one fighting, isn't it?
There you go again, speaking when you should be keeping your mouth shut. My family is a military family...Father, sons, daughters, uncles...You name it, we have them serving.
I suppose the fact I am at this time too old to serve, that my family members don't count huh? Don't give me your dumb ass "behind a computer" speech. I don't need it. How many folded flags have you had presented to you?
SKINNYPIG Wrote:There you go again, speaking when you should be keeping your mouth shut. My family is a military family...Father, sons, daughters, uncles...You name it, we have them serving.
I suppose the fact I am at this time too old to serve, that my family members don't count huh? Don't give me your dumb ass "behind a computer" speech. I don't need it. How many folded flags have you had presented to you?
If Israel ever falls, this country will become target #1 of radical Muslims. Just a few days after the State Department announced that it was willing to enter into negotiations with Mullah Omar, 14 American troops died in an attack that for which the Taliban claimed credit. Muslims in the Middle East take proposals that Americans consider reasonable and fair or signs of good faith as signs of weakness and respond accordingly.
I would like to see this country at peace for a change but if support for the defense of Israel wanes, an Iranian attack will become more likely. The best way to keep peace in the Middle East is to maintain a very credible threat of retaliation against any country that attacks Israel. Dropping that support will be inviting attack against Israel and the United States. Appeasement of monsters never works in the long run.
SKINNYPIG Wrote:There you go again, speaking when you should be keeping your mouth shut. My family is a military family...Father, sons, daughters, uncles...You name it, we have them serving.
I suppose the fact I am at this time too old to serve, that my family members don't count huh? Don't give me your dumb ass "behind a computer" speech. I don't need it. How many folded flags have you had presented to you?
My family is a military family also. But, I'm just like you, I have never served, and I won't sit behind this computer shouting "go fight". I have cousins that have did 3-4 tours over in that area,and are still active, and I'm sure they are tired of fighting right now. My marine cousin has spent 6 of his military years in that desert. For your info, I have had dozens of family in the military, and have had POW's in that bunch. How many folded flags have you received, if you want to go there. Don't you give "dumbass shit from behind that computer", from this side of the word, and I won't have to let you know about it.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:If Israel ever falls, this country will become target #1 of radical Muslims. Just a few days after the State Department announced that it was willing to enter into negotiations with Mullah Omar, 14 American troops died in an attack that for which the Taliban claimed credit. Muslims in the Middle East take proposals that Americans consider reasonable and fair or signs of good faith as signs of weakness and respond accordingly.
I would like to see this country at peace for a change but if support for the defense of Israel wanes, an Iranian attack will become more likely. The best way to keep peace in the Middle East is to maintain a very credible threat of retaliation against any country that attacks Israel. Dropping that support will be inviting attack against Israel and the United States. Appeasement of monsters never works in the long run.
Alot of them already see us as equal to Israel. We were loading a Taliban that had been hit by an airstrike into the bird, and he was yelling "jew" at us. I said "hey, dumbass, I'm not a jew", but they don't care, lol. Light-skinned people are all the same to them. Even after we've killed so many, they still think we are weak and cowardly. It's a big mistake on their part.
I think Iran doesn't have the capability to hit Israel in retaliation. They have the ability to hit us, but not really Israel. They watch us everyday, I think the response to an Israeli airstrike would be an attack on Americans in Afghan. Bring it on. Israel will hit them, just a matter of time.
TheRealVille Wrote:I'll ask you the same question I asked of Skinnypig. How much has Israel help us during our last 10 years? I don't remember reading about their military being used against Iraq or Afghanistan helping us. Where was our friend, as you say, for us?
Israel helping in the US in the middle east would be throwing gasoline on the fire. It's the same reason we held them out after the First Persian Gulf war.
If asked they would have helped us in a second even playing their own security on the line
nky Wrote:Israel helping in the US in the middle east would be throwing gasoline on the fire. It's the same reason we held them out after the First Persian Gulf war.
If asked they would have helped us in a second even playing their own security on the line
And the same thing would happen to us if we get involved in their fight. Either way, we can't come out good.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:If Israel ever falls, this country will become target #1 of radical Muslims. Just a few days after the State Department announced that it was willing to enter into negotiations with Mullah Omar, 14 American troops died in an attack that for which the Taliban claimed credit. Muslims in the Middle East take proposals that Americans consider reasonable and fair or signs of good faith as signs of weakness and respond accordingly.
I would like to see this country at peace for a change but if support for the defense of Israel wanes, an Iranian attack will become more likely. The best way to keep peace in the Middle East is to maintain a very credible threat of retaliation against any country that attacks Israel. Dropping that support will be inviting attack against Israel and the United States. Appeasement of monsters never works in the long run.
I'm all for making them think we are ready to go to Israel's aid, as long as we don't actually go.
TheRealVille Wrote:And the same thing would happen to us if we get involved in their fight. Either way, we can't come out good.
I give our men and women in uniform more credit. No matter what some say we still have the most professional and best fighting force in that region. Any time we can defend a country like Isreal we should. That's another reason November 2012 is so important for our future
TheRealVille Wrote:I'm all for making them think we are ready to go to Israel's aid, as long as we don't actually go.
It doesn't work that way. The Iranians in charge of their government are crazy religious nutcases but they are not stupid. Obama has given them multiple stern warnings with no action, even after Homeland Security linked the Iranian government to a terrorist plot on American soil. The Iranians can distinguish between empty rhetoric and credible threats of force.
TheRealVille Wrote:My family is a military family also. But, I'm just like you, I have never served, and I won't sit behind this computer shouting "go fight". I have cousins that have did 3-4 tours over in that area,and are still active, and I'm sure they are tired of fighting right now. My marine cousin has spent 6 of his military years in that desert. For your info, I have had dozens of family in the military, and have had POW's in that bunch. How many folded flags have you received, if you want to go there. Don't you give "dumbass shit from behind that computer", from this side of the word, and I won't have to let you know about it.
Go ahead and keep up your tired, weak, want to come home portrayal of our military if you want. I refuse.
Sure, they all want to come home...They want to come home proud, tired, triumphant warriors.