I know this is always an interesting topic amongst theologians.
This is the battle between those who believe in "falling from grace" and those who believe "once saved, always saved".
What do you guys think and why do you think that way?
I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the Bible and haven't set foot in a church (other than funerals or weddings) in over 20 yrs, but the church I attended growing up taught you can fall from grace. But the good news for me is that I've never attained grace to begin with, so I can't fall from it.
I remember asking a teacher of mine whether or not they believed in "once saved, always saved". I asked this specific teacher because this teacher seemed to know a lot about the bible.
The usual response that I would receive for this question would be that they either believe in "once saved, always saved" or not. But to my surprise, my teacher gave me a different answer. My teacher pointed out
1 Timothy 6:3-5. Here's the bible verses:
1 Timothy 6:3-5 Wrote:3) If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4) he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5) useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
I encourage you to read the entire chapter 6 of 1 Timothy for yourself. Just in case if this might've been taken out of context.
From what I understand, I think my teacher was trying to point out that arguing over something that we will never know the 100% answer is useless, and it will only cause trouble.
But what I would really like to point out is
1 Corinthians 1:10-13. It teaches us that as Christians, we should all remain united. I wanted to mention this because I've noticed in the past that this discussion over "once saved, always saved" has divided Christians. Here's the bible verse:
1 Corinthians 1:10-13 Wrote:10) Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11) For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12) Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13) Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
Once Saves, Always Saved?
How far does that go? Can u commit murder and still be saved?
Wildcatk23 Wrote:Once Saves, Always Saved?
How far does that go? Can u commit murder and still be saved?
I'm a little lost on it, and that's why I started the thread.
I had a Pastor explain to me once that if someone would go as far as to fo something like that then they were never Saved to begin with.
zaga_fan Wrote:I'm a little lost on it, and that's why I started the thread.
I had a Pastor explain to me once that if someone would go as far as to fo something like that then they were never Saved to begin with.
Exactly:Thumbs:
To be saved, you give your whole heat to Christ forever and agree to live by the ways of living set forth by him in the holy bible, thus if someone commits murder after being saved, they were never saved to begin with because they were not fulfilling there promise to God that they would abide by his rules and commandments. Keep in mind though, all sins are the same in Gods eyes. While i know its hard to fathom killing someone is equal to stealing a candy bar, if you give yourself to him than you shouldnt do either.
This is how I usually talk to people about it.
Someone goes to the Altar and gives their life to the Lord.
You can tell a definite change in them for a few years and they drift away and eventually show no fruit and God is the furthest thing from their mind.
One school of belief would be that they were Saved and lost it....
while the other says they were never Saved.
Bottom line : The person's future is in jeopardy whether or not they were Saved to begin with or they have always been lost.
I myself lean toward Conditional Security for this reason....
you can never be too careful lol
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Exactly:Thumbs:
To be saved, you give your whole heat to Christ forever and agree to live by the ways of living set forth by him in the holy bible, thus if someone commits murder after being saved, they were never saved to begin with because they were not fulfilling there promise to God that they would abide by his rules and commandments. Keep in mind though, all sins are the same in Gods eyes. While i know its hard to fathom killing someone is equal to stealing a candy bar, if you give yourself to him than you shouldnt do either.
If all sins are the same in gods eyes then no one should be saved or is saved. We All sin, and if all sin is equal then you and I are no better than a Murderer?
Correct?
Or A Murderer can ask for Forgiveness the same as we can for thinking naughty thoughts about Strikout Kings Sig?
Wildcatk23 Wrote:If all sins are the same in gods eyes then no one should be saved or is saved. We All sin, and if all sin is equal then you and I are no better than a Murderer?
Correct?
Or A Murderer can ask for Forgiveness the same as we can for thinking naughty thoughts about Strikout Kings Sig?
Pay careful attention to this post because it can get confusing or sound worse than it is meant to.
All sin is the same in God's eyes because he cannot stand any of it. Sin separates us from God. Jesus made it possible for us to have salvation through his life, death, burial and resurrection. Confessing our sins, asking for forgiveness, repenting (turning from sin, having a heart change in which you do not want to sin) and believing that God will do these things and that Jesus is Lord, makes it to where we are no longer tied to those sins.
So while all sin is the same in God's eyes, Jesus makes it possible for us to be forgiven of all sins.
Wildcatk23 Wrote:If all sins are the same in gods eyes then no one should be saved or is saved. We All sin, and if all sin is equal then you and I are no better than a Murderer?
Correct?
Or A Murderer can ask for Forgiveness the same as we can for thinking naughty thoughts about Strikout Kings Sig?
Sin isn't what sends you to hell.
Stay with me for a minute lol
We all have sinned. We are born sinners. You will never have to teach a child how to lie or cause trouble. You have to teach them how to do the right thing.
The only thing that seperates the heavenbound from the hellbound is Jesus.
Jesus paid the sacrifice for all sin and offers the chance for that sacrifice to cover your's if you repent and believe.
LWC Wrote:Pay careful attention to this post because it can get confusing or sound worse than it is meant to.
All sin is the same in God's eyes because he cannot stand any of it. Sin separates us from God. Jesus made it possible for us to have salvation through his life, death, burial and resurrection. Confessing our sins, asking for forgiveness, repenting (turning from sin, having a heart change in which you do not want to sin) and believing that God will do these things and that Jesus is Lord, makes it to where we are no longer tied to those sins.
So while all sin is the same in God's eyes, Jesus makes it possible for us to be forgiven of all sins.
He Says to obey by the laws of the land correct?
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23: 23 â 24).
Neglecting more important laws? Is that determining sins have greater importance or just the laws? but disobeying the laws is sin, therefore they do have levels?
Wildcatk23 Wrote:He Says to obey by the laws of the land correct?
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23: 23 â 24).
Neglecting more important laws? Is that determining sins have greater importance or just the laws? but disobeying the laws is sin, therefore they do have levels?
Notice the word in bold. They forgot the heart of the laws. Many of the temple leaders thought salvation was about following rules and forgot that it is about love. We are supposed to follow God's commandments but not out of obligation like the temple leaders did but because we love God and want to follow His commandments.
LWC Wrote:Notice the word in bold. They forgot the heart of the laws. Many of the temple leaders thought salvation was about following rules and forgot that it is about love. We are supposed to follow God's commandments but not out of obligation like the temple leaders did but because we love God and want to follow His commandments.
You still didn't answer my post LWC
, If you don't know the answer thats fine. Obviously many people see it different ways.
Wildcatk23 Wrote:He Says to obey by the laws of the land correct?
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23: 23 â 24).
Neglecting more important laws? Is that determining sins have greater importance or just the laws? but disobeying the laws is sin, therefore they do have levels?
To be honest....
I don't know if I really buy into the fact that all sins are equal.
Quote:James 2:10â11: âFor whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.â
This is the verse people refer to when they say that all sins are equal.
IMO the verse is stating that all sin carries the same punishment, but no necessarily that they are all equal.
Wildcatk23 Wrote:If all sins are the same in gods eyes then no one should be saved or is saved. We All sin, and if all sin is equal then you and I are no better than a Murderer?
Correct?
Or A Murderer can ask for Forgiveness the same as we can for thinking naughty thoughts about Strikout Kings Sig?
This is why we ask for forgiveness and considered "born again" christians.
It doesnt matter what you do, even murder, if you truly accept him and ask for his forgiveness than you will be forgiven.
Wildcatk23 Wrote:You still didn't answer my post LWC , If you don't know the answer thats fine. Obviously many people see it different ways.
What exactly are you looking for? I already said that all sin is equally bad in God's eyes.
Let me state it like this:
If a person lives their entire life and only commits 1 sin, (Remember this is an example, not necessarily realistic) no matter what that sin is, they still need forgiveness and Jesus. It could be a "white lie" or murder.
Paul persecuted and killed followers of Jesus Christ, yet God forgave him AND called him into ministry to spread the Gospel as a missionary and begin churches, etc....
Also, how many people did Jesus heal and say, "Go and sin no more." Was there ever a person that Jesus said, "Nope, I am not going to forgive you of that"
When He hung on the cross, no sin took any more sacrifice than another. All our sins are forgiven through Jesus, if we just let Him.
Let me ask this question to you: Is there a double-penalty for any sin? Do we deserve two deaths for murder, as opposed to one death for any sin? (Jesus paid the price for us, that we are made free from this because he died for us.)
A very simple answer to your question, all sins are equal in God's eyes.