Bluegrassrivals

I was discussing in another thread with someone that changes need to be made. It is my contention that the political parties are causing the political system not to work.

What say u?

Is today really any different from the past?

Politics is not an end, but a means. It is not a product, but a process. It is the art of government. Like other values it has its counterfeits. So much emphasis has been placed upon the false that the significance of the true has been obscured and politics has come to convey the meaning of crafty and cunning selfishness, instead of candid and sincere service.

In politics the middle way is none at all.

So has the view of politics really change over time? Is today special? I think not. THESE are the times that try men's souls(Thomas Paine) but are they really any different than any other part of our history?

What has changed is that this country has reached a tipping point. Politicians (mostly those affiliated with the Democratic Party) have created what Neal Boortz calls a "moocher class" and the size of the moocher class has reached unsustainable proportions. 47 percent of Americans pay no federal income taxes, yet most of them vote based upon, to paraphrase JFK, what they believe their federal government can do for them.

White Americans pay most of the federal income taxes in this country and a majority of them are fiscal conservatives who are permanently aligned with the Republican Party.

Political parties are not breaking the back of our economic and political system, the Democratic Party and the moochers who encourage fiscal and political malfeasance by voting as a bloc for liberal Democrats bearing gifts are destroying the system.

Many Republican politicians (Hal Rogers is a great example) have become part of the problem because they vote with Democrats to preserve their own political careers. The recent series of continuing spending resolutions passed by Congress is a good example. On balance, the majority of voters in this country are ignoramuses who vote against the interests of their own children and grandchildren. No society can survive once the moocher class seizes control of the nation's purse strings.

Hoot Gibson Wrote:What has changed is that this country has reached a tipping point. Politicians (mostly those affiliated with the Democratic Party) have created what Neal Boortz calls a "moocher class" and the size of the moocher class has reached unsustainable proportions. 47 percent of Americans pay no federal income taxes, yet most of them vote based upon, to paraphrase JFK, what they believe their federal government can do for them.

White Americans pay most of the federal income taxes in this country and a majority of them are fiscal conservatives who are permanently aligned with the Republican Party.

Political parties are not breaking the back of our economic and political system, the Democratic Party and the moochers who encourage fiscal and political malfeasance by voting as a bloc for liberal Democrats bearing gifts are destroying the system.

Many Republican politicians (Hal Rogers is a great example) have become part of the problem because they vote with Democrats to preserve their own political careers. The recent series of continuing spending resolutions passed by Congress is a good example. On balance, the majority of voters in this country are ignoramuses who vote against the interests of their own children and grandchildren. No society can survive once the moocher class seizes control of the nation's purse strings.

I asked Congressman Rogers about term limits from Congress in a letter. He responded that the system is just fine... how does that make you feel?

nky Wrote:So has the view of politics really change over time? Is today special? I think not. THESE are the times that try men's souls(Thomas Paine) but are they really any different than any other part of our history?

When the constitution was first written, the states picked their senators it was not until later the people started voting for the senators. Do you think we should go back to the old way?

Hoot Gibson Wrote:What has changed is that this country has reached a tipping point. Politicians (mostly those affiliated with the Democratic Party) have created what Neal Boortz calls a "moocher class" and the size of the moocher class has reached unsustainable proportions. 47 percent of Americans pay no federal income taxes, yet most of them vote based upon, to paraphrase JFK, what they believe their federal government can do for them.

White Americans pay most of the federal income taxes in this country and a majority of them are fiscal conservatives who are permanently aligned with the Republican Party.

Political parties are not breaking the back of our economic and political system, the Democratic Party and the moochers who encourage fiscal and political malfeasance by voting as a bloc for liberal Democrats bearing gifts are destroying the system.

Many Republican politicians (Hal Rogers is a great example) have become part of the problem because they vote with Democrats to preserve their own political careers. The recent series of continuing spending resolutions passed by Congress is a good example. On balance, the majority of voters in this country are ignoramuses who vote against the interests of their own children and grandchildren. No society can survive once the moocher class seizes control of the nation's purse strings.

Question: Do you believe that the cost of doing business in America has helped to create this moocher class?

I would say that our standards of living have caused this moocher class to appear.

Think about the Dr.'s for an example, most patients in this area get medicaid, a gov't run health care program, started by the democrats. However, why do you think Senator Williams wishes to cut education to pay off medicaid...

Republicans want a system of control, that they can manipulate, so they can continue to gain wealth.

I would agree with you though that the average american wants that moocher class to work or get off the tax payers backs.

However, because it would COST the business owners so much because of our standard of living, they decide to take all jobs across the pond.

So, it is easier to pay that cost in taxes, because the business is making so much money, it is more cost efficient for them to do that, than to hire our own people.

What do you say?

tvtimeout Wrote:Question: Do you believe that the cost of doing business in America has helped to create this moocher class?

I would say that our standards of living have caused this moocher class to appear.

The moocher class was created by liberal politicians, mostly members of the Democratic Party, because their votes can be bought cheaply and legally, using other people's money. The federal government alone consumes 23 percent of our annual Gross Domestic Product. Add the cost of interest on the national debt, state and local income, sales, property, and excise taxes, and a list of state and federal regulations that grows daily, and you have almost all of the "cost of doing business" in this country.

tvtimeout Wrote:Think about the Dr.'s for an example, most patients in this area get medicaid, a gov't run health care program, started by the democrats. However, why do you think Senator Williams wishes to cut education to pay off medicaid...

Republicans want a system of control, that they can manipulate, so they can continue to gain wealth.

The best way to create wealth is to allow people to operate business in a free market. While it is true that there American businesses do try to game the system through both parties, you simply ignore that the Republican Party is also home to most politicians who want to free the market from red tape and high taxes. If true reforms are made to the current system, it will be fiscal conservatives and libertarian members of the Republican Party that make them.

tvtimeout Wrote:I would agree with you though that the average american wants that moocher class to work or get off the tax payers backs.

I strongly disagree with this statement. A heavy majority of Americans cannot get past their own selfish interests to support any dismantling of the welfare state. Most people may want other moochers to become self-sufficient but they will vote to fund their own tax exemptions, tax credits, government jobs, and other taxpayer paid benefits until their last breath. The moocher class is large and it is growing. That is what I meant when I said that this country is approaching a tipping point.

tvtimeout Wrote:However, because it would COST the business owners so much because of our standard of living, they decide to take all jobs across the pond.

So, it is easier to pay that cost in taxes, because the business is making so much money, it is more cost efficient for them to do that, than to hire our own people.

What do you say?

To the extent businesses can relocate to areas where they can make larger profits in a stable environment, they will do so. Of the five developers on my project team, only two of us are American citizens. So, you see, Americans are not just losing jobs through outsourcing, thanks to our failing public school systems (including our universities and graduate schools), Americans are being displaced on their native soil.

Not all jobs that are being lost to foreign competitors are being lost to third-world or developing countries with low standards of living. That is what our politicians want you to believe, but it is far from the truth.

I have toyed with registering as a Libertarian in the past but the Libertarian Party has no power to affect any meaningful change in this country. You are echoing stereotypes of the two major parties that are what each try to communicate about one another during negative campaign commercials.

There are many good people in both parties that do not fit neatly into your stereotypes and Republicans like Paul Ryan, Mike Pence, and others are the people who can influence policy changes from within a viable party.

tvtimeout Wrote:When the constitution was first written, the states picked their senators it was not until later the people started voting for the senators. Do you think we should go back to the old way?

I think the American People are smart enough to choose their leaders.

nky Wrote:I think the American People are smart enough to choose their leaders.

They are smart enough but they are not educated enough. Most people cannot imagine that hyperinflation, as occurred in the Weimar Republic or the kind of political and economic turmoil that recently struck Greece could happen. It can happen here and it will if things don't change soon.

I don't returning control of the Senate to the state governments but I would like to see state primary elections eliminated. I think that the quality of candidates declined as the number of state primaries increased. Let political parties select their own candidates on their own dime and at their own conventions.

Hoot Gibson Wrote:They are smart enough but they are not educated enough. Most people cannot imagine that hyperinflation, as occurred in the Weimar Republic or the kind of political and economic turmoil that recently struck Greece could happen. It can happen here and it will if things don't change soon.

I don't returning control of the Senate to the state governments but I would like to see state primary elections eliminated. I think that the quality of candidates declined as the number of state primaries increased. Let political parties select their own candidates on their own dime and at their own conventions.

So Kentucky shouldn't have had a primary to choose each parties nominee for the Senate? Trey Grayson probably would have loved that:biggrin:

nky Wrote:So Kentucky shouldn't have had a primary to choose each parties nominee for the Senate? Trey Grayson probably would have loved that:biggrin:

Not in my opinion. Ask yourself if today's candidates are superior to the ones that emerged from smoke filled rooms of party heavyweights with their party's nominations. I don't think they are and much less time was spent by those candidates raising money and selling favors.

Republicans, Democrats, and members of other parties should trust party activists to select the best candidates. Shorten the campaigning phase and reduce the money required to win a Senate seat and we would all be better off, whichever candidates won.

Hoot Gibson Wrote:Not in my opinion. Ask yourself if today's candidates are superior to the ones that emerged from smoke filled rooms of party heavyweights with their party's nominations. I don't think they are and much less time was spent by those candidates raising money and selling favors.

Republicans, Democrats, and members of other parties should trust party activists to select the best candidates. Shorten the campaigning phase and reduce the money required to win a Senate seat and we would all be better off, whichever candidates won.

Grayson is the perfect example. He was an empty suit who thought it was his given right to be the next senator from Kentucky. He didn't get out and interact with the people. I believe in the goodness of the American people and the citizens of Kentucky to choose who they want at that moment in time.

In National primaries (presidential) I think there should be regional primaries. All the states on the East coast have their primaries on one day, then Midwest on another, plain states another, and Left coast on another day. That way the Media influence will be moderated.

It's not just the media influence that bothers me about the current primary season. Campaigns have gotten ridiculously long and for whatever reason, people seem to have accepted that elected officials go into full campaign mode with a year or two remaining on their term. In other words, they spend half their term fulfilling campaign promises to big donors and half of their terms financing their next campaign.

Whether Kentuckians or Americans in general are good or not, most of their politicians are not. Primaries are won by well-financed candidates out-pandering the opposition and the candidates who prevail immediately recast themselves as moderates for the general election.

Primaries are a waste of everybody's time and money (except the winning candidates) and all they do is corrupt the system. Honest candidates who are potentially strong, effective leaders have great difficulty winning in a crooked system.

A system that yielded John McCain and Barrack Obama as presidential candidates in 2008 has to be broken.

McCain was a backroom deal as was Dole in 1996. They were good party soldiers and given their "chance" to run. It was almost like a throw away candidate. Those candidates the national party threw their weight behind and any upstart had no chance. Obama almost had the same thing happen Hillary was the darling but media fatigue cost her and Obama was a fresh and unknown candidate. Palin is suffering from media fatigue now. She'll go no where in 2012.
I think in last years senate race in KY Grayson felt it was his seat and went though the motions early. The Paul camp claiming to be "outsiders" and not part of the "political" system were latched on the tea party theme but in fact they were a well oiled political machine that used stealth and diversion to win. By the time Greyson realised it it was to late.

nky Wrote:I think the American People are smart enough to choose their leaders.

Why would the founders not have it that way? I am curious, I love history!

Two things that bother me:

1. I think that special interest groups have caused more harm than good on the average american.

2. How about if we let the two top vote getters become Pres. and Vice Pres. reguardless of party just as we did in the beginning? It seems that it would eliminate most political stagnation. A side note (why did we ever go away from this?)

tvtimeout Wrote:Why would the founders not have it that way? I am curious, I love history!

1787 education wasn't universal only the wealthy were educated. Compulsory education came later in our history. Our founding fathers didn't want to give to much power to the uneducated masses. The last remnants of this is the Electoral College

nky Wrote:McCain was a backroom deal as was Dole in 1996. They were good party soldiers and given their "chance" to run. It was almost like a throw away candidate. Those candidates the national party threw their weight behind and any upstart had no chance. Obama almost had the same thing happen Hillary was the darling but media fatigue cost her and Obama was a fresh and unknown candidate. Palin is suffering from media fatigue now. She'll go no where in 2012.
I think in last years senate race in KY Grayson felt it was his seat and went though the motions early. The Paul camp claiming to be "outsiders" and not part of the "political" system were latched on the tea party theme but in fact they were a well oiled political machine that used stealth and diversion to win. By the time Greyson realised it it was to late.

I disagree. Although McCain and Dole did have the backing of many party insiders, they were the product of the current primary system. Even if they had been chosen at a party convention, the savings on campaign spending would have been enormous. My point is, without the primaries it is very unlikely that Republicans would have fielded a candidate any worse than Dole or McCain.

You might want to reconsider how must you trust Kentuckians and Americans in general to make exercise good sense on election day if you read some of the numbers in this article:

Quote:How Dumb Are We?

NEWSWEEK gave 1,000 Americans the U.S. Citizenship Test--38 percent failed. The country's future is imperiled by our ignorance.

They’re the sort of scores that drive high-school history teachers to drink. When NEWSWEEK recently asked 1,000 U.S. citizens to take America’s official citizenship test, 29 percent couldn’t name the vice president. Seventy-three percent couldn’t correctly say why we fought the Cold War. Forty-four percent were unable to define the Bill of Rights. And 6 percent couldn’t even circle Independence Day on a calendar.

Neal Boortz frequently refers to the American public as the "dumb masses" and I agree with him. How can 29 percent of Americans be unable to name their countries own VP? Or a whopping 44 percent not know what the Bill of Rights is? That level of ignorance in a democratic republic is insane!

Hoot Gibson Wrote:What has changed is that this country has reached a tipping point. Politicians (mostly those affiliated with the Democratic Party) have created what Neal Boortz calls a "moocher class" and the size of the moocher class has reached unsustainable proportions. 47 percent of Americans pay no federal income taxes, yet most of them vote based upon, to paraphrase JFK, what they believe their federal government can do for them.

White Americans pay most of the federal income taxes in this country and a majority of them are fiscal conservatives who are permanently aligned with the Republican Party.

Political parties are not breaking the back of our economic and political system, the Democratic Party and the moochers who encourage fiscal and political malfeasance by voting as a bloc for liberal Democrats bearing gifts are destroying the system.

Many Republican politicians (Hal Rogers is a great example) have become part of the problem because they vote with Democrats to preserve their own political careers. The recent series of continuing spending resolutions passed by Congress is a good example. On balance, the majority of voters in this country are ignoramuses who vote against the interests of their own children and grandchildren. No society can survive once the moocher class seizes control of the nation's purse strings.

Best post I have ever seen on here...and just about anywhere...
except for maybe a couple Bob Seger sports posts haha...
You have hit the nail on the head Hoot...:worthy: