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Tubby's fall from northern grace
Hoot Gibson Wrote:You seem to never tire of being wrong - or are you just a glutton for punishment?

Minnesota - 76
Michigan State - 63

Michigan State - 61
Minnesota - 50

I guess Izzo just felt sorry for Tubby in their first meeting this season and just let Minnesota win. He was obviously just taking it easy on them in the second game too.

"Observing" is an ironic screen name for you to have chosen for yourself. Tubby is +1 in his two meetings with Izzo this season, despite your claims that Tubby is a mediocre coach who is bad with Xs and Os and a horrible recruiter; and Izzo is a great coach who salivates at the prospect of battling Tubby for recruits and loves seeing the Gophers on his team's schedule.

Do your own arguments really make any sense to you? Confusednicker:

Hmmm., 6 years at Minnesota, Tub 2-10 against Izzo, pretty sure Iz beat him in a Big 10 tntm game too. At UK 2- 4 against Izzo. Tub meet Tom,
FISH meet BARREL & GUN.

There's your facts sonny.

And before you embarass yourself more, here's a little tip, you CANNOT be +1 in 2 games.
You can be even, +2 or -2, but you CANNOT be +1.
Observing Wrote:Hmmm., 6 years at Minnesota, Tub 2-10 against Izzo, pretty sure Iz beat him in a Big 10 tntm game too. At UK 2- 4 against Izzo. Tub meet Tom,
FISH meet BARREL & GUN.

There's your facts sonny.
Tubby inherited the Big 10 door mat, has locked up another NCAA bid, and just coached his team to an upset win over the #1 team in the nation.

Another swing and another miss. Embarrassing.

Let go of the Tubby hate and be will a happier be happy.
If "He is not as good as Tom Izzo" is all you have, I think that shows just how good of a coach he is. Izzo is a top 10 coach in College Basketball.
Panther Thunder Wrote:If "He is not as good as Tom Izzo" is all you have, I think that shows just how good of a coach he is. Izzo is a top 10 coach in College Basketball.
:Thumbs: I believe that Izzo has a career winning percentage of 71 percent versus Tubby's 70 percent. When you consider that Tubby rebuilt Minnesota's program and coached at both Tulsa and Georgia, instead of in talent rich Michigan, it is impossible to definitively say that Izzo is a better coach. Tubby has consistently managed to compete with more talented teams. Izzo is a better recruiter but I would give the Xs and Os edge to Tubby.

Also, Tubby has put together the type of roster that it takes to compete in the Big Ten. The Gophers pounded Indiana on the boards and made Zeller a non-factor. Minnesota is big and physical, which has been Izzo's recipe for success throughout his tenure at Michigan State.
Panther Thunder Wrote:If "He is not as good as Tom Izzo" is all you have, I think that shows just how good of a coach he is. Izzo is a top 10 coach in College Basketball.

"All you have"? You can fill encyclopaedias with what there is.
Hoot just picked out Izzo, and cherry picked 2 games from the
whole body of work. Not so pretty when you look at the whole
story.

But forget about any individual comparison, or any single
factor. Tubby's players don't get better playing under
him. Tubby's teams don't improve as the season progresses.
Tubby never accepts responsibility for anything. Tubby
has never gotten a team to the FF other than the 1 title team
that he had bequeathed to him. HOW can anyone maintain
that he's anything other than a mediocrity? And accident
of circumstance. Accomplishing nothing that a couple hundred
more coaches couldn't have done had they stumbled into
his positions?
Hoot Gibson Wrote::Thumbs: I believe that Izzo has a career winning percentage of 71 percent versus Tubby's 70 percent. When you consider that Tubby rebuilt Minnesota's program and coached at both Tulsa and Georgia, instead of in talent rich Michigan, it is impossible to definitively say that Izzo is a better coach. Tubby has consistently managed to compete with more talented teams. Izzo is a better recruiter but I would give the Xs and Os edge to Tubby.

Also, Tubby has put together the type of roster that it takes to compete in the Big Ten. The Gophers pounded Indiana on the boards and made Zeller a non-factor. Minnesota is big and physical, which has been Izzo's recipe for success throughout his tenure at Michigan State.

Okay, someone call the whitecoats. I'm not Izzo's biggest fan, far from it.
But "giving Tubby the edge in x and o's" just shows you are a danger
to yourself and others, and need HELP.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Tubby inherited the Big 10 door mat, has locked up another NCAA bid, and just coached his team to an upset win over the #1 team in the nation.

Another swing and another miss. Embarrassing.

Let go of the Tubby hate and be will a happier be happy.

Quit trying to argue that water is dry, you'll be happier.
Observing Wrote:"All you have"? You can fill encyclopaedias with what there is.
Hoot just picked out Izzo, and cherry picked 2 games from the
whole body of work. Not so pretty when you look at the whole
story.

But forget about any individual comparison, or any single
factor. Tubby's players don't get better playing under
him. Tubby's teams don't improve as the season progresses.
Tubby never accepts responsibility for anything. Tubby
has never gotten a team to the FF other than the 1 title team
that he had bequeathed to him. HOW can anyone maintain
that he's anything other than a mediocrity? And accident
of circumstance. Accomplishing nothing that a couple hundred
more coaches couldn't have done had they stumbled into
his positions?
Wrong, Einstein. You picked out Izzo as an example of a coach who just loved seeing Minnesota on his schedule because, by your account, he is a mediocre coach who can't recruit and is a bad bench coach. What I did was point out the obvious. Minnesota has split with Michigan State this season. This debate started over your assertions that Minnesota is a bad team playing for a mediocre coach.

You cannot support your opinion because the facts to support it are no where to be found. Coaches winning nearly 70 percent of their games over a career are anything but mediocre. Shirley, even you must realize that, but you just cannot bring yourself to face the obvious facts. Tubby is not perfect, but no coach is.

No coach will be happy drawing Minnesota in the early rounds of the tournament. They are big, athletic, and well coached. Ask Tom Izzo, Tom Crean, or Bo Ryan. Crean said after Indiana's loss that Tubby is a Hall of Fame caliber coach.

I am finished with this subject. You seem to be the only person left who wants to argue that Tubby is a mediocre coach, and you are making an exceptionally weak case. :biglmao:
Here's a pretty simple illustration.

Cal quits tomorrow, goes to play golf and talk on tv. You're given the
choice of getting Tubby or you can throw a dart at the names of all
the other D-1 coaches and they take the job. Unless you're an idiot,
you throw the dart.

You've only got a 20% chance of getting someone worse. You get an
80% cahnce of getting someone as good. ANd you get an almost 50%
chance ofgetting soemone better.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:Wrong, Einstein. You picked out Izzo as an example of a coach who just loved seeing Minnesota on his schedule because, by your account, he is a mediocre coach who can't recruit and is a bad bench coach. What I did was point out the obvious. Minnesota has split with Michigan State this season. This debate started over your assertions that Minnesota is a bad team playing for a mediocre coach.

You cannot support your opinion because the facts to support it are no where to be found. Coaches winning nearly 70 percent of their games over a career are anything but mediocre. Shirley, even you must realize that, but you just cannot bring yourself to face the obvious facts. Tubby is not perfect, but no coach is.

No coach will be happy drawing Minnesota in the early rounds of the tournament. They are big, athletic, and well coached. Ask Tom Izzo, Tom Crean, or Bo Ryan. Crean said after Indiana's loss that Tubby is a Hall of Fame caliber coach.

I am finished with this subject. You seem to be the only person left who wants to argue that Tubby is a mediocre coach, and you making an exceptionally weak case. :biglmao:

Well I don't recall saying Uminn was a bad team. They actually SHOULD be more than what they are, and that's because they DO play for a
mediocre coach who doesn't make players better.

As for asking another coach, PLEASE, when did ANY of them ever
say ANYTHING other than the other guy was a genius? It's
practically legally required coach speak. None of those guys are going to
worry about getting outcoached by Tubby.
Observing Wrote:Here's a pretty simple illustration.

Cal quits tomorrow, goes to play golf and talk on tv. You're given the
choice of getting Tubby or you can throw a dart at the names of all
the other D-1 coaches and they take the job. Unless you're an idiot,
you throw the dart.

You've only got a 20% chance of getting someone worse. You get an
80% cahnce of getting someone as good. ANd you get an almost 50%
chance ofgetting soemone better.
Most kindergarten art also consists of very SIMPLE illustrations. What grade are you in? :hilarious:

FYI: The average coach wins 50 percent of his games. Tubby wins 70 percent of his games. The chances that you can put the names of all NCAA Division I coaches on a dart board and hit one that has a higher winning percentage than Tubby is nowhere near 50 percent. I have never seen such a poor understanding of basic statistics in my life - and you seem proud to display it.
Observing Wrote:Well I don't recall saying Uminn was a bad team. They actually SHOULD be more than what they are, and that's because they DO play for a
mediocre coach who doesn't make players better.

As for asking another coach, PLEASE, when did ANY of them ever
say ANYTHING other than the other guy was a genius? It's
practically legally required coach speak. None of those guys are going to
worry about getting outcoached by Tubby.
You have said that Tubby is a mediocre coach who cannot recruit. Now, you say that Minnesota should be better than they are because they play for a mediocre coach. So, Tubby recruited this team, but Tubby cannot recruit, but the team that he recruited should be playing better in the nation's toughest basketball conference. You are chasing your own tail, while tying yourself into logical knots from which there is no escape.

If you think all coaches always speak about opposing coaches in glowing terms, then you must be a very young boy. Bobby Knight made a career of disrespecting his opponents.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:You have said that Tubby is a mediocre coach who cannot recruit. Now, you say that Minnesota should be better than they are because they play for a mediocre coach. So, Tubby recruited this team, but Tubby cannot recruit, but the team that he recruited should be playing better in the nation's toughest basketball conference. You are chasing your own tail, while tying yourself into logical knots from which there is no escape.

If you think all coaches always speak about opposing coaches in glowing terms, then you must be a very young boy. Bobby Knight made a career of disrespecting his opponents.

Not at all. I didn't say they should be great. I just said they
should be better than what they are. And that's because
unlike most coaches, Tubby doesn't improve his players
and thus his team, as the season goes along.

As for Knight I started to emntion him as the GLARING EXCEPTION.
I can easily recall some of his comments about Lou Henson and Dale
Brown among others. His was a LONELY VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS
when it comes to criticising fellow members of the coaching
fraternity. 99% of them JUST WILL NOT DO IT.

Of course pointing out the almost singular exception to the rule
as supporting your case, just shows how unable you are to
actually evaluate things. Every point you've laughingly tried to
make is easily turned on its head. You're the kind of guy that
will see a light come on, and then reason out that the light
coming on caused the light switch to flip up.
Observing Wrote:Not at all. I didn't say they should be great. I just said they
should be better than what they are. And that's because
unlike most coaches, Tubby doesn't improve his players
and thus his team, as the season goes along.

As for Knight I started to emntion him as the GLARING EXCEPTION.
I can easily recall some of his comments about Lou Henson and Dale
Brown among others. His was a LONELY VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS
when it comes to criticising fellow members of the coaching
fraternity. 99% of them JUST WILL NOT DO IT.

Of course pointing out the almost singular exception to the rule
as supporting your case, just shows how unable you are to
actually evaluate things. Every point you've laughingly tried to
make is easily turned on its head. You're the kind of guy that
will see a light come on, and then reason out that the light
coming on caused the light switch to flip up.
I need to withdraw from this debate before somebody accuses me of setting up a clone account (i.e., your's) to make myself look good. You are making me look like a college basketball expert, which I could never do on my own. :biglmao:
You Tubster fans better enjoy today and the Nebraska game. Might very well
be his final two wins, EVER. Likely loss at Purdue, and likely 1st rd loss in the Big 10
will pave the way to his first rd NCAA loss. After that it's up in the air
if he'll ever coach again. The people in Minny are fed up and want his head,
so they may seek a buy out and send him out to pasture.
Hoot Gibson Wrote:I need to withdraw from this debate before somebody accuses me of setting up a clone account (i.e., your's) to make myself look good. You are making me look like a college basketball expert, which I could never do on my own. :biglmao:

Anyone pleading a case for Tubby as a top coach need not worry about
that. You'll never look like anything other than an idiot.
Three days ago Penn State beat top 5 Michigan 84-78. That same Penn State team scored 12 points in the first half against Terrible Tubby's Minnesota (34-12) and ended up losing 73-44. Oh by the way, Tubby notched his 20th win (20-9, and 8-8 in the B10). Minnesota is in the tournament with a much less talented team in a superior conference. I would take Minnesota over UK every day of the week this season.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
TidesHoss32 Wrote:Three days ago Penn State beat top 5 Michigan 84-78. That same Penn State team scored 12 points in the first half against Terrible Tubby's Minnesota (34-12) and ended up losing 73-44. Oh by the way, Tubby notched his 20th win (20-9, and 8-8 in the B10). Minnesota is in the tournament with a much less talented team in a superior conference. I would take Minnesota over UK every day of the week this season.

I'm curious as to how you think this supports the case
that Tubby is more than a mediocre? Thinking that you'd
pick UMinn to win over a UK team that is in a fluke down
year equates in what way to Tubby being a great coach?

BTW, were UK to meet UMinn in the tnmt. Vegas would
have it at about a pick.
Observing Wrote:I'm curious as to how you think this supports the case
that Tubby is more than a mediocre? Thinking that you'd
pick UMinn to win over a UK team that is in a fluke down
year equates in what way to Tubby being a great coach?

BTW, were UK to meet UMinn in the tnmt. Vegas would
have it at about a pick.
Numbers, stats and results dont lie. If you think a coach with a 70% winning percentage and the tournament resume that he has is mediocre then theres no reason debating with you. This UK team proves that Cal is a great recruiter but an average (at best) coach. Vegas might make it a pick, but I'd take Minnesota.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
TidesHoss32 Wrote:Numbers, stats and results dont lie. If you think a coach with a 70% winning percentage and the tournament resume that he has is mediocre then theres no reason debating with you. This UK team proves that Cal is a great recruiter but an average (at best) coach. Vegas might make it a pick, but I'd take Minnesota.

You are trying to argue with a foe who you cannot compete with! This guy is a warrior! You cannot possibly match wits with him! A guy who looks like this is not someone you should mess with!

[Image: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HliWiZ0TUx0/S9...+623_3.jpg]
Point taken. :thatsfunn
I think I know that guy lol..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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