[DOUGHDADDY]

Did you say hold backs......be careful or you will get the maroons and their what's best for the kids opinions rolling now.....hold backs are the worst thing about middle school football and kymsfa rewarded them with all state team awards.... Kids who arent good enough to play against kids there own age...it gets my blood boiling

[footballfever]

Did you say hold backs......be careful or you will get the maroons and their what's best for the kids opinions rolling now.....hold backs are the worst thing about middle school football and kymsfa rewarded them with all state team awards.... Kids who arent good enough to play against kids there own age...it gets my blood boiling

I kind of disagree with you. If a student turns 15 after starting 8th grade then they are within age requirements. It doesnt matter if they start 1st grade at age 7 or decide to holdback 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th grade. ALL parents have option to start at age 7 or holdback at some point. Parents also have option to not holdback or start at age 7.Kirk Herbstreit turned 19 in August of his senor year so he started at 7 or was heldback. All students arent going to become Herbsteits but just because a student graduates at 17,18 or 19 doesnt mean anything other than they graduated within they age limit. My child will turn 19 at end senior year. Very good student and athlete. That is 4 years away but I right now am glad they will be in my house following my rules 1 more year and not on some college campus just turning 18 not know what is going on.
Holding back, starting late, graduating at 19 my not be for all kids, parents but I dont think ANYONE shoud begrudge others who do it.
I still do think if KHSAA has any say they will NOT allow a holdback to play during the repeat year. They do not allow it now in HS athletics.

[snapcat91]

I agree football fever the bottom line is that this probably a $$$ issue! When I posted the first thread about KHSAA trying to do away with kymsfa, "run it up the gut" insinuated I was just trying to start crap!! Actually I had heard this and wanted to shed light upon to everyone involved to bring support to kymsfa, which has been nothing but good for our middle school football in this state!!

[snapcat91]

I totally aggree with you on holdbacks too "football fever"!!!!! Good post!!!!:rockon:

[goBIGblue82]

I think a 10 game regular season plus playoffs would be fine. I also believe if you don't make or choose not to be in playoffs 12 games would be enough. I also believe KHSAA would not allow a holdback to play during repeat year just as they do know for HS athletics. I also think another concern is $$$$$. Alot of $$$ has been brought in the last 2 years by the KYMSFA. These are just a few of my opinions.

This kind of format wouldn't be that bad. However what I believe they have proposed is a set number of games for the entire season(not sure how many I think around 8-10) including pre-season and post-season play. Virtually making it impossible to still have a State Tournament.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Below is an email that was sent out on the MSFOOTBALL list serve back in the late fall by KYMSFA VP JEFF MANN.


Coaches and Administrators,
The KDE and the KHSAA will be having discussions on Dec 6th and 7th to determine restrictions that the KHSAA will possibly put on Middle School football or athletics in general. We don't oppose the KHSAA but would prefer to work with them to continue what we do in the area of Middle School football. The KYMSFA has worked diligently over the last 4 years to make Middle School football in the State of Kentucky something that the kids who participate will remember for the rest of their lives. We have tried to work with the KHSAA over the years but any restrictions of games etc will limit the opportunities that the KYMSFA will be able to provide. The KYMSFA wants to be able to continue to serve our Middle School members and provide competitive opportunities. We have over the past 4 years provided opportunities for the players to be successful and excel in the sport of football by providing various venues such as 7 on 7 tournaments, The KYMSFA State Championship Playoffs, East/West All Star games and now the newly developed KY Team which is competing in a National tournament, not to mention the the various organization that we have worked with like FBU and OD to provide camps and All Star selection to play in a much larger venue in the Alamo Dome in San Antonio Texas in a national All Star event.

Bottom line, we need your support, if your could please take the time to draft a email support letter for our organization and send it to [email]gmitchell@kymiddleschoolfootball.com[/email] before tomorrow. The KYMSFA appreciates your support and we look forward to serving you in the future. Please let your administrators know as well and hopefully we have their support as well.

Thank you,
Coach Mann
KMSFA Vice President &
Championship Coordinator
Kentucky Middle School Football Association
2800 Lexington Financial Center
Lexington, Kentucky 40507
[email]jmann@kymiddleschoolfootball.com[/email]

So its pretty much EXACTLY what i said.
Its up to the KMSFA in the end. If they want to be assholes to the KHSAA, they can be and ignore them.
However i dont see that happening. They'll work with the KHSAA to an agreement where everyone is happy.
IMHO, the KHSAA should have never said a word.
Middle school football has NOTHING to do with them.
If i was KMSFA's board members id say, mind your own business, and we'll set our own rules.

[Fooseball Devil]

So has anyone heard what happened at the meetings?:concentratetongue:

[Stardust]

^ There haven't been any meetings. Thats what the whole thread has been about.....

[Witch Doctor]

Let me say some things about the discussion with the KHSAA becoming involved with middle school athletics. Trust me, I know what I'm posting. This is not hearsay or secondhand information.

1. The KHSAA does not govern middle school athletics at this time.
2. The KHSAA and the Board of Control will not get involved with middle school athletics UNLESS they are directed to by KDE or the legislature.
3. The KHSAA has already had their annual meeting and there was no discussion about middle school athletics.
4. KDE is concerned with safety in middle school atletics as it relates to heat safety, concussion recognition and response, coaches training in CPR/first aid/sports management, catastrophic insurance plan for middle school athletes,Tilte IX compliance.

[footballfever]

I think if the KHSAA and KDE want to oversee middle school athletics, they will. Whether it be through legislation or simply having member schools vote. If AD's and Principals have option of dealing with middle school athletics or letting KHSAA govern it they will vote for KHSAA to govern.
The KYMSFA has done a great job but they no way have the resources to battle the KHSAA. Basically the KYMSFA was a few guys who got together and said lets start this association.
Again I think the KHSAA is looking at limitation of season, players participating during holdback year and $$$.

[Witch Doctor]

The KHSAA does not have the extra people in place to take on middle school athletics. The KHSAA bylaws do not address athletics at the middle school level. The KHSAA does not want to take on middle school athletics. The KHSAA is non profit. The only money they generate is dues from schools, officials, gate revenue from finals in certain sports. There is sponsorship for state championship games. They have to pay for their building in Lex, and all cost of offering championship competition in all offered sports. Some of these state championships cost a lot with no admission charged. It is funny that people wants it's about money. Other than what is listed above......what money?

[meat loaf]

This kind of format wouldn't be that bad. However what I believe they have proposed is a set number of games for the entire season(not sure how many I think around 8-10) including pre-season and post-season play. Virtually making it impossible to still have a State Tournament.

I was at the High School coaches clinic @ Western back In December and Julian Tackett talked about middle school teams playing to many games. One reason this happens is because some schools have to schedule a lot of games because other teams cancel on them just about every year after the season starts and they find out that they can not compete with that school. It forces the coaches to over schedule and then sometimes no one backs out and you are caught with more games than you need..

[RunItUpTheGut]

I dont understand this to many games crap.
Youve got 13-14 year old kids who are full of energy and heal quickly playing one game a week for about 14 or 15 weeks.
I dont understand what tacklett is thinking. Besdies, the saefty issues could be set by the KMSFA.
If this is going to be the case, than we should also cut basketball and baseball games by a third to.

[footballfever]

$$$$$ Lets see. 100 teams at $500 = $50,000. 20% of gate for all games approx. 98 games at low guess $200 = $19,600. T-shirt sells approx $10,000.Member schools approx 140 at $50 = $7000. DVD sells of championship and semi. $30 per DVD let see 16 teams approx 30 players coaches a team 480= $ 14,400. I believe thats $101,000.

[Witch Doctor]

Football fever? And what will 101,000 dollars pay for? I do not think that amount is worth the effort for the KHSAA to TAKE THEM over. That amount will not even pay for one person to oversee middle school sports. It will take seven figure money to expand into regulating all middle school athletics. The KHSAA will not supervise football only.

[footballfever]

Football fever? And what will 101,000 dollars pay for? I do not think that amount is worth the effort for the KHSAA to TAKE THEM over. That amount will not even pay for one person to oversee middle school sports. It will take seven figure money to expand into regulating all middle school athletics. The KHSAA will not supervise football only.

They dont oversee golf, bowling, tennis etc for the $$$$. I just think they will put some restictions on it SOMEHOW. I hope it stays the way it is but I dont think it will.

ALSO, I would like to know whay KYMSFA does with the $$$.

[Bluegrasscard]

$$$$$ Lets see. 100 teams at $500 = $50,000. 20% of gate for all games approx. 98 games at low guess $200 = $19,600. T-shirt sells approx $10,000.Member schools approx 140 at $50 = $7000. DVD sells of championship and semi. $30 per DVD let see 16 teams approx 30 players coaches a team 480= $ 14,400. I believe thats $101,000.

KYMSFA is a non-profit 501©3. As such where do you think any $$$$$ in way of profit that does not cover cost of the tournament, 7 on 7s or the East-West function go? If you know the legal requirements of a 501©3 then you should know the answer. And if you are implying something other than that then you should be more careful.

Some of the numbers above are not correct at all. DVD Video/Photo packages were offered as team sales also. Only a very few individuals ordered the $30 option (less than 10). I believe around 8 teams (half of the teams in Lexington for the final weekend) opted for the team packages that were $300 (1 day) or $400 (both days). This allowed for unlimited duplication for any size team and to allow down stream duplication as needed. This kept the per player cost much lower than $30. In some cases a single booster paid for it so that all the kids could get copies.

As with any 501©3 revenues are applied to cost. In the case of the DVDs video/photo packages the revenue was applied to address the cost of web-cast that allowed families from all around the state to watch the games live and as archived broadcast.

[footballfever]

KYMSFA is a non-profit 501©3. As such where do you think any $$$$$ in way of profit that does not cover cost of the tournament, 7 on 7s or the East-West function go? If you know the legal requirements of a 501©3 then you should know the answer. And if you are implying something other than that then you should be more careful.

Some of the numbers above are not correct at all. DVD Video/Photo packages were offered as team sales also. Only a very few individuals ordered the $30 option (less than 10). I believe around 8 teams (half of the teams in Lexington for the final weekend) opted for the team packages that were $300 (1 day) or $400 (both days). This allowed for unlimited duplication for any size team and to allow down stream duplication as needed. This kept the per player cost much lower than $30. In some cases a single booster paid for it so that all the kids could get copies.

As with any 501©3 revenues are applied to cost. In the case of the DVDs video/photo packages the revenue was applied to address the cost of web-cast that allowed families from all around the state to watch the games live and as archived broadcast.

I'll be real careful. So, there is someway to see all money that is brought in and where it is spent?

[Bluegrasscard]

I'll be real careful. So, there is someway to see all money that is brought in and where it is spent?

Its a 501©3, thus the obvious answer is yes. Member schools likely request some level of this information all the time.

[Witch Doctor]

Here is the number one issue that people in authority has a problem with. HEAT INDEX! There is an assumption that some middel/elementary schools are not keeping an accurate check on the heat index everyday and more improtantly on game day. Heat index readings are not being recorded for reference if something happens. There have been several instances, in our state, over the past few years that deal with athletes and heat related illness. Some of these have not ended very well for the child. There are rumors of high schools not practicing in the afternoon hours because the heat index is at dangerous levels. Then drive a mile away and the middle school players are in full pads going full speed ahead! If this is true, then it is only a matter of time before the school and parents lose a child to a heat related illness. The state has mandated that high school coaches complete a heat and safety class. If a school district is smart they would require middle school and elementary coaches to complete the same course and accurately keep heat index records before we lose a child. This is what KDE is concerned about. If you do not believe this post, look up a KDE board member's name on the wewbsite and give them a call or an email.

[starburst]

the KHSAA does not control it therefore, it is not there descion.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Here is the number one issue that people in authority has a problem with. HEAT INDEX! There is an assumption that some middel/elementary schools are not keeping an accurate check on the heat index everyday and more improtantly on game day. Heat index readings are not being recorded for reference if something happens. There have been several instances, in our state, over the past few years that deal with athletes and heat related illness. Some of these have not ended very well for the child. There are rumors of high schools not practicing in the afternoon hours because the heat index is at dangerous levels. Then drive a mile away and the middle school players are in full pads going full speed ahead! If this is true, then it is only a matter of time before the school and parents lose a child to a heat related illness. The state has mandated that high school coaches complete a heat and safety class. If a school district is smart they would require middle school and elementary coaches to complete the same course and accurately keep heat index records before we lose a child. This is what KDE is concerned about. If you do not believe this post, look up a KDE board member's name on the wewbsite and give them a call or an email.

Bull shit. There concerned about the $$$$

[HKC#59]

I know the team my son play's for when it come's to Heat Index and if they will practice or not come's from the High School Coach and AD, which come and measure the temp on field an air temp. If the high school ain't practicing neither is the middle school. They spent a few hot day's in the ac gym with just helmets on.

[Witch Doctor]

Runitupthegurpt----your last post shows what kind of person you are. I hope that you have nothing to do with the supervision of young people. My posts are meant to be informative to people on this site. I don't know why you would disrpect my post. You have very litle knowledge base about what your post. You keep talking about money. WHAT money. Give some clue to what you talking about.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Runitupthegurpt----your last post shows what kind of person you are. I hope that you have nothing to do with the supervision of young people. My posts are meant to be informative to people on this site. I don't know why you would disrpect my post. You have very litle knowledge base about what your post. You keep talking about money. WHAT money. Give some clue to what you talking about.

I dont have to explain myself to you, nor do i care what kind of person YOU think i am.
Read some of footballfevers post, that have been unanswered and you will see what i mean.

The reason the KHSAA or anyone else for that matter would want anything to do with middle school football would be money.
Its the main driving source for any orginization, thats common sense.

If there so worried about the heat index, why didnt they do something for all of the years where the KMSFA didnt exist? Why are they just now interested? BECAUSE they see that theres a profit to be made.
Coaches go threw the training on this stuff to make sure they can tell the signs of heat exhaustion and whether or not a kid is in any physical danger. Ive never seen a coach refuse a kid water when its extremely hot. Most of them encourage hydration. If your kid plays for a kid who dont, then yank him out but in the end it would be the coaches fault and he will be held responsible for the shit storm that comes after words. Ask the ex- PRP coach.

Long story short, there two different orginizations, and money has a lot to do with the khsaa. Also, the legislature and law makers should have nothing to do with sports, IMO.

[Witch Doctor]

The KHSAA doesn't need money. They would if they began to take over middle school sports. They would have to increase staff by at least 50%. Oh, by the way, the KHSAA is non profit. Their ledger is public record. Futhermore, you don't have to expalin anything its in all your post.

[RunItUpTheGut]

The KHSAA doesn't need money. They would if they began to take over middle school sports. They would have to increase staff by at least 50%. Oh, by the way, the KHSAA is non profit. Their ledger is public record. Futhermore, you don't have to expalin anything its in all your post.

You keep believing that ms. tackett

[sportsguru]

Someone needs to regulate the number of games played, most teams play 2-3 games a week.

[Witch Doctor]

I'm done with this post. I tried to give information that I knew to be fact. For those of you that care and will listen. Unless mandated by KDE or the legislature don't worry about the KHSAA getting involved with middle school sports.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Someone needs to regulate the number of games played, most teams play 2-3 games a week.

I think it should be one game a week, either on thursday or saturday. Never both, as i seen some teams do this year playing a game on thursday then playing one two days later on saturday.
I dont care how many weeks they play, IMO that doesnt matter, but it should always only be 1 game per week.