Bluegrassrivals

This has been a big arguement but I'd like to know everyones opinion??

Should Porter or Liggins start for UK??

Liggens.

Here are the players averages for the season.



Michael Porter- 3.8 points 2.0 rebounds 2.9 assists 2.2 turnovers

Deandre Liggins- 6.1 points 2.9 rebounds 3.6 assists 3.3 turnovers

Liggens

Porter.

Porter gives Kentucky the best chance of winning right. LiggIns will be a great guard for UK, but right now he still needs some time to develop.

Porter's stats are also a bit misleading because the last few games his turnovers have been virtually non existent.

Porter

I added a poll to make it easier to keep track of.

alfus21 Wrote:Porter gives Kentucky the best chance of winning right.

I dont think so. I believe Liggens gives UK a better chance at winning games, but that's just my opinion

FBALL Wrote:I added a poll to make it easier to keep track of.

I was trying to figure out how to get a poll up but I couldnt figure it out... lol Thanks!!

Money Maker Wrote:I was trying to figure out how to get a poll up but I couldnt figure it out... lol Thanks!!

No problem. Your welcome.

As of right now Porter, but maybe later on in the SEC Liggins if not this season next season Liggins will defiantly be the starting point guard.

BlackcatAlum Wrote:As of right now Porter, but maybe later on in the SEC Liggins if not this season next season Liggins will defiantly be the starting point guard.

:Thumbs:

United we stand, divided we fall.

Magicjefferson25 Wrote:I dont think so. I believe Liggens gives UK a better chance at winning games, but that's just my opinion

Based upon what?

At least give some reasoning behind starting LiggIns over Porter.

Take a look at the last few games.

Vandy
Porter 8 points, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 steal, 1 rebound
Liggins 1 point (0-5 from the field) 2 assists, 1 turnover, 5 rebounds

Louisville
Porter 8 points, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 turnovers
Liggins 2 points, 2 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers

Central Michigan
Porter 12 points, 3 assists, 1 steal, 4 turnovers
Liggins 6 points, 8 assists, 5 turnovers

Florida Atlantic
Porter 2 points, 5 assists, 1 turnover
Liggins 3 points, 2 assist, 1 turnover

Tennessee State
Porter 0 points, 7 assists, 1 turnover
Liggins 7 points, 3 assists, 3 turnovers

Appalachian State
Porter 3 points, 5 assists, 1 turnover
Liggins 2 points, 3 assists, 4 turnovers

Indiana
Porter 0 points, 4 assists, 2 turnovers
Liggins 10 points, 3 assists, 6 turnovers

So since the Indiana game the numbers look like this....

Porter has 33 points, 27 assists, 11 turnovers....

Liggins has 31 points, 23 assists, [COLOR="Red"]23 turnovers
[/COLOR]

I know statistically speaking, that Liggins is more of a scoring threat, but in my opinion these numbers show that Porter is giving us the best chance to win by not giving the ball up to the other team, and dishing it out pretty good as well recently.

Great post Alfus.

I picked Liggins because I feel like he is a much better player, but he has to reduce the turnovers. Although I do feel like Porter has improved since the start of the season, he just can't make things happen like a PG needs to.

^ Agreed, Great Post Alfus.

I would agree that Porter is the best for what UK needs right now. It's the turnovers stat that is what scares me away from Liggins. There is no doubt that he will be a scorer, but I'm not convinced that he is a protypical PG. IMO, BG is sticking with Porter based on protecting the ball more consistently.

Liggins play out of control at most times, but that is typical of most freshman. They could use another scorer on the floor, but if he has trouble hanging onto the ball or making the proper pass, then it's too much risk to give points verus what you can get.

Defense is a key to me. No doubt that Liggins upside is his size and quickness compared to Porter. M2M, Liggins is no worse than Porter currently. He actually has a few (3) more steals than Porter. Liggins has the ability to pick a player with his length. Porter does not get many of his steals by picking an opponent clean. But in that fact tells the story for me.

Liggins as I said is as good if not a better M2M defender, but he is probably the worst Cat on the floor for HELP defense. He gets lost, he does not appear to know how, or trust himself to help on D. This it where Porter is so underated. He does a tremendous job of playing off the ball. His positioning is better than any of the guards and he has faith in himself that if the ball is kicked out to his man he can recover. His weakness in M2M D in comparison to Liggins is deceiving as well. Porter is not fearful of getting beat. He trusts his players to do the same thing that he does, provide help D. I notice that Porter will belly up when his man is inside the 3 line with no fear of getting beat.

Outside the 3 line is a different story. I think he sometimes gives too much cushion which allows the offense an uncontested pass or free dribble.

But, Porter's help D and his better Tunover to Assist ratio gets my nod

alfus21 Wrote:Based upon what?

At least give some reasoning behind starting LiggIns over Porter.

Take a look at the last few games.

Vandy
Porter 8 points, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 steal, 1 rebound
Liggins 1 point (0-5 from the field) 2 assists, 1 turnover, 5 rebounds

Louisville
Porter 8 points, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 turnovers
Liggins 2 points, 2 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers

Central Michigan
Porter 12 points, 3 assists, 1 steal, 4 turnovers
Liggins 6 points, 8 assists, 5 turnovers

Florida Atlantic
Porter 2 points, 5 assists, 1 turnover
Liggins 3 points, 2 assist, 1 turnover

Tennessee State
Porter 0 points, 7 assists, 1 turnover
Liggins 7 points, 3 assists, 3 turnovers

Appalachian State
Porter 3 points, 5 assists, 1 turnover
Liggins 2 points, 3 assists, 4 turnovers

Indiana
Porter 0 points, 4 assists, 2 turnovers
Liggins 10 points, 3 assists, 6 turnovers

So since the Indiana game the numbers look like this....

Porter has 33 points, 27 assists, 11 turnovers....

Liggins has 31 points, 23 assists, [COLOR="Red"]23 turnovers
[/COLOR]

I know statistically speaking, that Liggins is more of a scoring threat, but in my opinion these numbers show that Porter is giving us the best chance to win by not giving the ball up to the other team, and dishing it out pretty good as well recently.

Liggens is the better man for the job. He is just a freshman, of course he is going to make some mistakes. Give him a few more games and he will work out his kinks. Liggins is what UK needs to succeed, not porter.

I guess we will just have to see if the UK coaching staff agrees. I'll trust they have a little better understanding of what is really happening both in games and practice. It's all of our opinions versus BG's opinion, I have a feeling I know who's opinion counts most

Stardust Wrote:I guess we will just have to see if the UK coaching staff agrees. I'll trust they have a little better understanding of what is really happening both in games and practice. It's all of our opinions versus BG's opinion, I have a feeling I know who's opinion counts most

BCG might count most but don't mean its the right decision.

Money Maker Wrote:BCG might count most but don't mean its the right decision.

Fair, but who is in the best position to make the right decision? I love being a fan, but I don't see everything that happens in practices, attitudes and in broken down game film 18 hours a day. So for me, I'll trust that the UK staff will make the Right decision, no matter what I think.

Magicjefferson25 Wrote:Liggens is the better man for the job. He is just a freshman, of course he is going to make some mistakes. Give him a few more games and he will work out his kinks. Liggins is what UK needs to succeed, not porter.

LiggIns is the better man for the job based on what? You just keep saying he is what UK needs, but you've yet to explain any reason why. I'm just curious, that is all. :confused:

alfus21 Wrote:LiggIns is the better man for the job based on what? You just keep saying he is what UK needs, but you've yet to explain any reason why. I'm just curious, that is all. :confused:

Review the season averages that I posted earlier!!

Money Maker Wrote:Review the season averages that I posted earlier!!

Look at what Alfus posted, can't disagree there. Porter is the man for the job right now, once Liggins realizes he's not in high school anymore he'll be the better player.

Money Maker Wrote:Review the season averages that I posted earlier!!

They weren't convincing, especially when compared to mine which showed how the last 7 games have panned out for both players. Porter has beaten Liggins in each category over the last 7 games, and has a near 3:1 assist:turnover ratio.

The numbers you posted are misleading, (as a I mentioned earlier) because Porter struggled early in the season.

Lately he has been excellent at the point, and has given Kentucky a chance to win each game.

alfus21 Wrote:They weren't convincing, especially when compared to mine which showed how the last 7 games have panned out for both players. Porter has beaten Liggins in each category over the last 7 games, and has a near 3:1 assist:turnover ratio.

The numbers you posted are misleading, (as a I mentioned earlier) because Porter struggled early in the season.

Lately he has been excellent at the point, and has given Kentucky a chance to win each game.

Would give a much better chance to win if he would contribute the ball and get at least 3 or 4 assist a game like a pg is supposed to do. :Thumbs:

Money Maker Wrote:Would give a much better chance to win if he would contribute the ball and get at least 3 or 4 assist a game like a pg is supposed to do. :Thumbs:

Well, over the last 7 games he is averaging 3.85 assists per game, while turning it over only 1.57 times.

Anything else?

alfus21 Wrote: Well, over the last 7 games he is averaging 3.85 assists per game, while turning it over only 1.57 times.

Anything else?

If you do a average with less amount of games the numbers don't tell the tail. With less games it makes averages go up so this is misleading on his overall performance and makes him look better than he is. Besides he is a Junior and he should be taking over games rather than just barely making it by every game.

Anything else???

Money Maker Wrote:If you do a average with less amount of games the numbers don't tell the tail. With less games it makes averages go up so this is misleading on his overall performance and makes him look better than he is. Besides he is a Junior and he should be taking over games rather than just barely making it by every game.

Anything else???

I'm well aware of that, but the numbers are simply misleading because of how he struggled early. I'm not a huge fan of him, but over the last several games (including the 7 I broke down) he has played very well.

Why bring this up now when he has outplayed Liggins over the last 7 games?

Liggins will be a very good guard in the future, but right now gives Kentucky no chance on the offensive end because he simply turns it over way too much. 23 turnovers in the last 7 games is not good by any stretch of the imagination. I have no idea what you've seen over the last few games that leads you to believe that Liggins is playing good basketball.

I will admit, he played some good defense in the 2nd half against Vandy, but other than that he has been a disaster recently.

I'll let the last 7 games do my talking for me, because I think the most important aspect of the conversation is who gives us a better chance to win RIGHT NOW. And to put it simply, it is Porter, and the numbers don't lie.

I'm finished with this conversation, because there is no point in repeating the same things over and over, but it appears my numbers show a better representation of who gives Kentucky a better chance of winning right now.