Bluegrassrivals

Thoughts?

I think that if a team entered the playoffs they should either play the game or pay the school they’re supposed to play. Regardless of site. I think it should be a large amount. Enough to seriously discourage forfeiting a playoff game. A regular season game should be a cash payment as well but maybe less. I’d say $500 for a regular season game and $1,000 for a playoff game. Also, forfeiting a regular season game should result in a subtraction of points. Any forfeiture should result in a -20 points to the final seeding score of a team in the playoffs.

how would you enforce the fee? Its hard to get a team to agree to a contract without a fee currently.

Single Wing 77 Wrote:I think that if a team entered the playoffs they should either play the game or pay the school they’re supposed to play. Regardless of site. I think it should be a large amount. Enough to seriously discourage forfeiting a playoff game. A regular season game should be a cash payment as well but maybe less. I’d say $500 for a regular season game and $1,000 for a playoff game. Also, forfeiting a regular season game should result in a subtraction of points. Any forfeiture should result in a -20 points to the final seeding score of a team in the playoffs.

Would you put any exceptions on that for the cancellation?

I’m following this. We have been fortunate that we haven’t had too many teams back out on us at Meece but we’ve seen it with teams that have cancelled on our bowl once agreed upon to play. Because there is no punishment for it, it’s easy to back out/cancel on a game.

What I would be looking at as an entity is (1) are there certain teams that have a history of backing out and if so, why? (2) is it certain teams who have this issue of teams backing out more often than not? (3) what are the reasons associated with why cancellations occur? I always want to know data to make a conclusion.

I assume there’s follow up from someone on the KYMSFA as a commissioner for the association if this incident occurs?

There does need to be something binding to get teams to commit to play and keep it happening but I’m unsure what.

It’s a shame that this conversation has to even be had. You have male coaches who are supposed to be setting the example of teaching middle school boys what it means to be a man and traits and characteristics to help grow them as men. And there’s so many coaches who do a great job at this. Then there’s coaches who don’t and show the players who look up to them that keeping your word means nothing. Now weather etc I can see not playing and having to cancel and trying to reschedule.

But then you have teams like South Laurel who refused to play Corbin and forfeited their playoff game. What’s that show the kids? You wonder why the high school program is a joke, it’s all linear.

plantmanky Wrote:Would you put any exceptions on that for the cancellation?

It depends. I think the exception should be if both teams will accept the reason for forfeiture. Or, it could be examined on a case by case basis by the association. I know that some of the excuses that we’re given last year were laughable. “Banged up”, “kids quit”, etc. I don’t think that any reason should be accepted for the playoffs. If a team enters the playoffs they should play.

Keep it coming, Im taking notes, big meeting mid March, need all the input we can get.

Remember that canceling games aren’t always the coach’s choice. If a MS team shares a field games can get canceled due to not wanting to destroy the field. Then trying to schedule the game around soccer and HS football gets tough. There isn’t uniform times to play games. You can see some MS play games in two to four day windows. If your team gets banged up it’s tough to get healed up in that time frame. MS numbers are much more fluid than HS varsity numbers. Lots of different factors to look at.

barrel Wrote:Remember that canceling games aren’t always the coach’s choice. If a MS team shares a field games can get canceled due to not wanting to destroy the field. Then trying to schedule the game around soccer and HS football gets tough. There isn’t uniform times to play games. You can see some MS play games in two to four day windows. If your team gets banged up it’s tough to get healed up in that time frame. MS numbers are much more fluid than HS varsity numbers. Lots of different factors to look at.

The weather is the weather. And there is a difference between postponing a game and forfeiting it. If Both coaches can agree to a forfeiture on the part of one then there shouldn’t be a penalty. Kids get hurt all the time. I can guarantee you that no matter who was hurt Corbin isn’t going to cancel a game because of who is out. I’ve seen them go two hours on the road with 15 kids on the roster and zero wins. If the game is agreed upon then it should be honored. The only reason for postponement should be weather.

plantmanky Wrote:Would you put any exceptions on that for the cancellation?

The only exceptions should be if school had to be canceled. If you cancel on a team you should be given the bottom seed in playoff or be held out of playoffs as a penalty.

Automatic disqualification from playoffs

There could be bigger circumstances than just a school cancellation. I do think tournament seeding sounds effective but I wonder if the teams that cancel, if seeding matters.

Automatic disqualification..that’s harsh unless it’s something that is repetively done by the same offender.

What's crazy is you have team's forfeiting playoff games and canceling those. If a team is going to cancel playoff games then there's no punishment that would effect them. I would question if you even let them in the association.

FootballFan1999 Wrote:What's crazy is you have team's forfeiting playoff games and canceling those. If a team is going to cancel playoff games then there's no punishment that would effect them. I would question if you even let them in the association.

Last year was the year that there was more than a couple of teams that dropped once brackets were complete. It is a double sided sword on who (if any) penalties should be taken when teams drop from the playoffs. Whats fair? What is a fair reason to cancel/forfeit/drop? Regular season is way different than playoffs.

Keep the comments coming. Im sure this will be a hot topic at the Advisory Committee meeting next week.

CowboyDad Wrote:There could be bigger circumstances than just a school cancellation. I do think tournament seeding sounds effective but I wonder if the teams that cancel, if seeding matters.

Automatic disqualification..that’s harsh unless it’s something that is repetively done by the same offender.

Last year was the first year that I can remember that a good team forfeited their playoff spot.

plantmanky Wrote:Last year was the year that there was more than a couple of teams that dropped once brackets were complete. It is a double sided sword on who (if any) penalties should be taken when teams drop from the playoffs. Whats fair? What is a fair reason to cancel/forfeit/drop? Regular season is way different than playoffs.

Keep the comments coming. Im sure this will be a hot topic at the Advisory Committee meeting next week.

If a team forfeits a playoff game they should have anywhere from a 1-5 year ban on being in the KMSFA.

FootballFan1999 Wrote:If a team forfeits a playoff game they should have anywhere from a 1-5 year ban on being in the KMSFA.

Let say that rule is put in place, do you think it will deter some teams from joining the association?

That’s why to me monitary fines make the most sense. Or if there’s a ban of any kind , make it a post season ban the following season? They could still play regular season so the kids don’t get punished for a decision some adults made. Just an idea.

Most teams wouldn’t pay a fine, hard to get any one to sign a contract. However, what if when it came to playoff seeing, any game they forfeit or cancel, they lose those points BEFORE the average is taken? For example...I cancel a game vs a D1 school...when the seeding meeting happens, before my total is averaged, they take 30 points off total. So if i would of played 9 games and all against D1 teams I’d had a total of 270 points. (30point avartage) but if i canceled a game the I lose 30 points from the 270, now 240 and it’s still taken from 9 games so now my total is 26.66....we all know you can go from a 1 seed to a low seed just by a couple points off avaerage.

plantmanky Wrote:Let say that rule is put in place, do you think it will deter some teams from joining the association?

Possibly the teams who forfeit. I think you have to ask do you want teams in the association who forfeit playoff games? Yes, the money the team is paying in is good. But, the association probably doesn’t want to represent teams that show kids when it gets tough quit.

With all the cancellations Corbins 7th grade had last year, it hurt them not being able to play a game before they played Southwestern.

FootballFan1999 Wrote:Possibly the teams who forfeit. I think you have to ask do you want teams in the association who forfeit playoff games? Yes, the money the team is paying in is good. But, the association probably doesn’t want to represent teams that show kids when it gets tough quit.

With all the cancellations Corbins 7th grade had last year, it hurt them not being able to play a game before they played Southwestern.

Poor o corbyn
Shuld jus play themselfs since so good

2face Wrote:Poor o corbyn
Shuld jus play themselfs since so good

I'm glad you have your minutes for the month so you can get on and put your two cents in.

Anxiously waiting on word from yesterday’s meeting....

CowboyDad Wrote:Anxiously waiting on word from yesterday’s meeting....

Hopefully I can have a summary of notes by the end of the week for you.

Lots of ideas where drawn up and a survey will be going out to MS Coaches and AD's as well as a separate survey to the HS coaches about a couple items.

Follow up from the advisory committee meetings. General consensus was something needs to be done. Several ideas were proposed. Main focus was there was 2 issue here.

1. Canceling of Regular Season games (needs its own set of penalties)

2. Forfeiting playoff games. (needs its own set of penalties)


A survey is going to be sent out to Coaches and AD's to get thoughts on the different proposals on this topic and others, but I think what the committee proposed on this topic is a good starting point.

Have each team put up a $500 refundable deposit, if you forfeit you lose your deposit, forfeit a second time and your out of the conference for 3 years. Use the money to reward the top 4 programs.refund the rest of the money as soon as the playoffs are over, if the forfeit during the playoff give them a lifetime ban.

insideinfo Wrote:Have each team put up a $500 refundable deposit, if you forfeit you lose your deposit, forfeit a second time and your out of the conference for 3 years. Use the money to reward the top 4 programs.refund the rest of the money as soon as the playoffs are over, if the forfeit during the playoff give them a lifetime ban.

Its hard enough tracking down membership fees from teams, lol.

I think points losses and seeding penalties are a good start. If they forfeit a playoff game, that’s an issue that could be resolved with a post season ban for the following year.

KYMSFA just had their meetings last weekend..Surely this was an item on the agenda.Anybody with any insight please chime in..