Bluegrassrivals

Leah Remini is doing a documentary on the Church of Scientology. She left the church in 2013.

This is fascinating to me and very interesting.

Anybody else watching this??

No, but what do you think?

Just got her side of the story, so I've been doing a lot of reading about it online. (Because I don't work anymore and I can do that! nicker

So far, I believe her documentary has a fair degree of accuracy. You have to consider this is one perspective BUT she won an award for this and, as she predicted, the church is coming after her pretty hard.

Scientology is a cult religion. But all religions begin that way and then if they so happen to grow and expand they are viewed as simply a religion. But the fact is all religions begin as cults, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, etc..
Scientology uses mind control and indoctrination, but all religions use the same to various degrees.
I will add though, how this particular religion got off the ground and accumulated a following is beyond me. It’s about as weird as it gets.

Especially with the amount of money you have to pay as you ascend the levels.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:Scientology is a cult religion. But all religions begin that way and then if they so happen to grow and expand they are viewed as simply a religion. But the fact is all religions begin as cults, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, etc..
Scientology uses mind control and indoctrination, but all religions use the same to various degrees.
I will add though, how this particular religion got off the ground and accumulated a following is beyond me. It’s about as weird as it gets.

No, my religion began for most when the son of God died on the cross and rose from the dead.

jetpilot Wrote:No, my religion began for most when the son of God died on the cross and rose from the dead.

It still started as a small cult following. It wasn’t a major world religion in those days. And it didn’t really get going until about 50 years after Jesus’ death when it was written about in the Gospels. If anyone is to be given credit for the spread of Christianity it is Paul and his writings, which require a leap of faith because it’s second hand observation. Paul himself didn’t see any of the last days of Jesus.
And what really gave it the boost it needed was it’s acceptance by the Roman Empire. Without that happening it would probably would have been one of many different cults that sprang up in the region in those times and withered away to be replaced by others. Christianity happened to occur at just the right time in history for survival. And the rest is history.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:It still started as a small cult following. It wasn’t a major world religion in those days. And it didn’t really get going until about 50 years after Jesus’ death when it was written about in the Gospels. If anyone is to be given credit for the spread of Christianity it is Paul and his writings, which require a leap of faith because it’s second hand observation. Paul himself didn’t see any of the last days of Jesus.
And what really gave it the boost it needed was it’s acceptance by the Roman Empire. Without that happening it would probably would have been one of many different cults that sprang up in the region in those times and withered away to be replaced by others. Christianity happened to occur at just the right time in history for survival. And the rest is history.

No now that's not right at all.
Definition: cult •a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing:

Admiration for Christ is neither misplaced or excessive on the part of His people. After all, He is Creator of all, and He is the Giver of Life eternal, for all whom "by grace through faith" accept Him as Lord and Savior. And even the early Church was not really small. The Book of Acts recounts the fact that 3,000 souls were added to the Church in one day, but throughout the Acts of the Apostles, The Lord added to His Church daily. And one more thing, The God, Who had to but speak this universe into existence, didn't need Rome or anybody else to give Christianity (His Church) a boost. No power could have stopped It.


I have always found it ironic that men, rather than accepting the Lordship of God, would ascribe their existence instead to something as incredibly unlikely as an exploding space rock. I mean, think of it. Supposedly according to Stephen Hawking's latest revelation, before the big bang there was absolutely nothing. Not one speck of space dust, no light of any kind, no time, not so much as one degree's worth of heat or energy lurking within the vastly infinite icy black vacuum of nothingness. So okay fine, there was nothing and where did the rock come from then?

The irony is that whether one truly believes God, or whether he rejects God for the foolishness of evolutionism, which according to the way I understand it is supposed to be the result of a 'Big Bang' that never happened, he either believes in the Rock of Ages that is the person of God, or the rock of space. But which ever a man chooses, he must still take it on faith. The Christian has the edge here because other than the fact that Creation is real, God has declared in His Word (and recorded history bears out God's Word and the life of Christ BTW) that for the soul who seeketh Him, it is He Who will provide that man with the faith to believe. But for the poor sucker who decides he's investing his personhood on the existence of the space rock, he has to come up with that faith on his own. Which of course is just a disguise for his own rebellion.

2 Samuel 22:47 (KJV)
47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

2 Samuel 23:2-3 (KJV)
2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV)
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

[SIZE="3"]Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee;[/SIZE]


For all men who do not believe however, there looms quite the unfortunate alternative to be faced. Judgment.

Hebrews 9:27-28(KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:It still started as a small cult following. It wasn’t a major world religion in those days. And it didn’t really get going until about 50 years after Jesus’ death when it was written about in the Gospels. If anyone is to be given credit for the spread of Christianity it is Paul and his writings, which require a leap of faith because it’s second hand observation. Paul himself didn’t see any of the last days of Jesus.
And what really gave it the boost it needed was it’s acceptance by the Roman Empire. Without that happening it would probably would have been one of many different cults that sprang up in the region in those times and withered away to be replaced by others. Christianity happened to occur at just the right time in history for survival. And the rest is history.

Before I respond to TRT's post (which I love) I have to ask: Which is a bigger leap of faith, Christianity or that we came from nothing?

TheRealThing Wrote:No now that's not right at all.
Definition: cult •a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing:

Admiration for Christ is neither misplaced or excessive on the part of His people. After all, He is Creator of all, and He is the Giver of Life eternal, for all whom "by grace through faith" accept Him as Lord and Savior. And even the early Church was not really small. The Book of Acts recounts the fact that 3,000 souls were added to the Church in one day, but throughout the Acts of the Apostles, The Lord added to His Church daily. And one more thing, The God, Who had to but speak this universe into existence, didn't need Rome or anybody else to give Christianity (His Church) a boost. No power could have stopped It.


I have always found it ironic that men, rather than accepting the Lordship of God, would ascribe their existence instead to something as incredibly unlikely as an exploding space rock. I mean, think of it. Supposedly according to Stephen Hawking's latest revelation, before the big bang there was absolutely nothing. Not one speck of space dust, no light of any kind, no time, not so much as one degree's worth of heat or energy lurking within the vastly infinite icy black vacuum of nothingness. So okay fine, there was nothing and where did the rock come from then?

The irony is that whether one truly believes God, or whether he rejects God for the foolishness of evolutionism, which according to the way I understand it is supposed to be the result of a 'Big Bang' that never happened, he either believes in the Rock of Ages that is the person of God, or the rock of space. But which ever a man chooses, he must still take it on faith. The Christian has the edge here because other than the fact that Creation is real, God has declared in His Word (and recorded history bears out God's Word and the life of Christ BTW) that for the soul who seeketh Him, it is He Who will provide that man with the faith to believe. But for the poor sucker who decides he's investing his personhood on the existence of the space rock, he has to come up with that faith on his own. Which of course is just a disguise for his own rebellion.

2 Samuel 22:47 (KJV)
47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

2 Samuel 23:2-3 (KJV)
2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV)
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

[SIZE="3"]Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee;[/SIZE]


For all men who do not believe however, there looms quite the unfortunate alternative to be faced. Judgment.

Hebrews 9:27-28(KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There’s multiple definitions for “cult”. Here’s the one I would think is most appropriate for a discussion of this type:

“The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object, or goals.”

Here’s another: “A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to rites and ceremonies.”

Here’s another: “A group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around sacred symbols.”

One more: “An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers.”


All religions start out as small cults and as they spread and grow they lose the cult status and are seen more as a religion. Christianity started this way. So did Islam, Buddhist, Hinduism, Mormons, and others. It’s actually a form of evolution itself, growing from a small group into larger and larger groups. Of course 2000 years ago with smaller populations in the world the number to move a cult from that status to a major religion would be less than today.

Another point you mention is a reference to the theory of the Big Bang origin of the universe. Most scientist lean toward this as an explanation but they all admit it’s only a theory. I think you use the phrase “Big Bang that never happened” and “foolishness of evolution “. I admit the Big Bang is theory but evolution is not theory, it’s fact. There’s 100% proof for evolution in the fossil record and it’s still occurring today. As a matter of fact, 99% of all species that have lived in the long history of life on earth is extinct, the dinosaurs being the most notable. When one considers the vast amount of time that life has been on earth a lot can happen. It’s difficult to comprehend.

So you say you have a better answer for how everything started and it has nothing to do with Big Bangs or evolution because that is foolish thinking.
You have the definite answer to how it happened:
It’s called magic.
That answers everything. We can throw all the science books away.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:There’s multiple definitions for “cult”. Here’s the one I would think is most appropriate for a discussion of this type:

“The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object, or goals.”

Here’s another: “A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to rites and ceremonies.”

Here’s another: “A group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around sacred symbols.”

One more: “An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers.”


All religions start out as small cults and as they spread and grow they lose the cult status and are seen more as a religion. Christianity started this way. So did Islam, Buddhist, Hinduism, Mormons, and others. It’s actually a form of evolution itself, growing from a small group into larger and larger groups. Of course 2000 years ago with smaller populations in the world the number to move a cult from that status to a major religion would be less than today.

Another point you mention is a reference to the theory of the Big Bang origin of the universe. Most scientist lean toward this as an explanation but they all admit it’s only a theory. I think you use the phrase “Big Bang that never happened” and “foolishness of evolution “. I admit the Big Bang is theory but evolution is not theory, it’s fact. There’s 100% proof for evolution in the fossil record and it’s still occurring today. As a matter of fact, 99% of all species that have lived in the long history of life on earth is extinct, the dinosaurs being the most notable. When one considers the vast amount of time that life has been on earth a lot can happen. It’s difficult to comprehend.

So you say you have a better answer for how everything started and it has nothing to do with Big Bangs or evolution because that is foolish thinking.
You have the definite answer to how it happened:
It’s called magic.
That answers everything. We can throw all the science books away.

No, it's called intelligent design, as in by God. And there's no science
book that attempts to explain how we were created. Also, wouldn't this "big bang" you speak of be magic? Again, we were either created or we came from nothing. To come from nothing is what would be magic. It all comes down to a matter of faith. I have faith in God and atheists have faith that we came from nothing.

No. A Big Bang would be a natural phenomena within the boundaries of the physical universe. Not magic.
How exactly it happened is debatable and there very well could be other scenarios. But any attempt at a scientific explanation is better than a supernatural magic answer.

You speak of Intelligent Design.
Question: Who created the Intelligent Designer? Then who created the creator of that designer? And on and on backwards as far as infinity. No one has ever been able to logically answer that question.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:There’s multiple definitions for “cult”. Here’s the one I would think is most appropriate for a discussion of this type:

“The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object, or goals.”

Here’s another: “A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to rites and ceremonies.”

Here’s another: “A group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around sacred symbols.”

One more: “An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers.”


All religions start out as small cults and as they spread and grow they lose the cult status and are seen more as a religion. Christianity started this way. So did Islam, Buddhist, Hinduism, Mormons, and others. It’s actually a form of evolution itself, growing from a small group into larger and larger groups. Of course 2000 years ago with smaller populations in the world the number to move a cult from that status to a major religion would be less than today.

Another point you mention is a reference to the theory of the Big Bang origin of the universe. Most scientist lean toward this as an explanation but they all admit it’s only a theory. I think you use the phrase “Big Bang that never happened” and “foolishness of evolution “. I admit the Big Bang is theory but evolution is not theory, it’s fact. There’s 100% proof for evolution in the fossil record and it’s still occurring today. As a matter of fact, 99% of all species that have lived in the long history of life on earth is extinct, the dinosaurs being the most notable. When one considers the vast amount of time that life has been on earth a lot can happen. It’s difficult to comprehend.

So you say you have a better answer for how everything started and it has nothing to do with Big Bangs or evolution because that is foolish thinking.
You have the definite answer to how it happened:
It’s called magic.
That answers everything. We can throw all the science books away.

Yeah I guess there are multiple definitions for what the meaning of is, is, too. I will address what I have bolded at the end of this post. But I am all done arguing with you about whether Christianity is a cult, much less whether Christianity has a scintilla of commonality with Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism.

Other than that which has been set forth in God's Word, God's work among his people and the life and earthly ministry of Christ here on this earth, is laced through the secular writings of every major civilization since the days of King Nebuchadnezzar. Especially those of the Roman Empire, which you contend to have been the perfect storm which gave impetus to a religion which otherwise would have withered on the vine. And perhaps THE most documented historical fact (and the reason Christians have the surety of eternal life) from among all those writings is that of His resurrection from the tomb. Which fact is about to be celebrated over the coming Easter Season this April BTW. And did you know that the peoples of the nations of modern Europe and the United States all descend from Rome?

Our system of dating is a two tier concept, all of time preceding and up to the death of Christ on the cross, BC, and everything after Christ's death on the cross, AD. Our system of law here in this country is based on God's Word. BTW, ever heard of the Book of Romans in the New Testament? And thanks to the statements of Romans, I am not worried that I need to in any way belabor a defense about the validity of God in the minds of men---
Romans 1:16-20 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God has revealed Himself to you, me, everybody. And He has done that through His creation, that is, all that exists around us. Unbelievers, including some scientists, deny that. Preferring, instead of accepting that there is a Creator, to ascribe the existence of the universe as a standing testament unto itself. And that even though the world's most notable scientist on the subject, Stephen Hawkings, within the past week has admitted that prior to time and matter, nothing existed. Again I would ask, WHERE did the exploding space rock whereby the universe supposedly made itself, come from? The answer is everything came from The Rock of Ages.

But Evolution has no more been proven than has the Big Bang. Though I will admit that there are impressive, if only for their sheer complexity, support scaffoldings which have been established by the so-called scientific community. The problem with these ever mutating bodies of evidence being offered up in validation of the theories of evolution and the Big Bang, is as follows. Both are notions which first popped up out of thin air, and the layers of retro-engineered overburden which passes for the underlying scientific justifications, are just baggage loosely pasted on like the layers of a piñata. A piñata can morph from a basketball to a Volkswagen to an elephant. All one has to do is keep layering on the paper-mâché. Exactly the same process was used in giving scientific plausibility to Evolution and the Big Bang.

In the cases of the theories in question, they just walked up to the target and pushed the bullet into the center of the bullseye. And they've been walking it back to a plausible and convenient origin ever since. If you want to call that 100% surety go for it.


Foolish thinking, or the wisdom of man--

[B]1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (KJV)[/B]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There is no natural barrier or partition between spiritual truths and physical or scientific truths. There is however, an impasse of understanding (his own unbelief) through which a man may not pass until and if he becomes a believer in That which is. God as Creator. If something is true it is reality, if it is not true it is a fabrication, a lie if you like. Men have always used unbelief to wall themselves off from the reality of their origin, as well as the reality of their destination. There is no separation between Church and State. Neither is there any wall of separation between Church and science. There is however a wall between man and his Creator which is self imposed, that being unbelief. The unfortunate and eternal ramification of which being the coming of certain judgment.

Men cannot see until darkness is illuminated by light.

"I am the Light of the World." ---Jesus

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:No. A Big Bang would be a natural phenomena within the boundaries of the physical universe. Not magic.
How exactly it happened is debatable and there very well could be other scenarios. But any attempt at a scientific explanation is better than a supernatural magic answer.

You speak of Intelligent Design.
Question: Who created the Intelligent Designer? Then who created the creator of that designer? And on and on backwards as far as infinity. No one has ever been able to logically answer that question.

1. The physical universe created by God or the one that magically sprang from nothing?
2. For atheists it is.

Again, faith. God, or came from nothing.

jetpilot Wrote:1. The physical universe created by God or the one that magically sprang from nothing?
2. For atheists it is.

Again, faith. God, or came from nothing.

I agree that it’s faith based. And if that’s all some need for their answers that’s okay. Everyone is free to make their own decisions and choices, at least in most of the world.

Faith is defined as:
(1) complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
(2) A strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof or evidence.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:I agree that it’s faith based. And if that’s all some need for their answers that’s okay. Everyone is free to make their own decisions and choices, at least in most of the world.

Faith is defined as:
(1) complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
(2) A strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof or evidence.

(2)(a) A strong belief in no God or doctrines of religion, based on hope of a scientific explanation where there is no proof or evidence.

(2) looks like it was written by an atheist, so I added (2)(a).

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:I agree that it’s faith based. And if that’s all some need for their answers that’s okay. Everyone is free to make their own decisions and choices, at least in most of the world.

Faith is defined as:
(1) complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
(2) A strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof or evidence.

And if others choose to believe we came from nothing and are looking for other answers that's okay too. Doesn't make them smarter or deeper thinkers, in fact I think the opposite is true.

jetpilot Wrote:And if others choose to believe we came from nothing and are looking for other answers that's okay too. Doesn't make them smarter or deeper thinkers, in fact I think the opposite is true.

Do you think because you believe everything is here because of supernatural creation that makes it a fact not to be questioned? That question works two ways. You said, “if others choose to believe we came from nothing.” Well, that same question would be in order for a supernatural deity. Did that come from nothing too?

Your answer is everything was created by an all powerful deity. That might work ok until one stops and thinks, “Who created the creator? That question has never been answered. Oh, people make attempts with answers that don’t really answer or say anything but go around in circles. “God just is”. God is the Alpha and the Omega.” “God has always been”. Etc. But those answers don’t explain anything.

I still feel more comfortable leaning toward a scientific explanation for the universe than one of a creator that no one knows how they came into being. I don’t think we got here or the universe came into being by magical means. There’s a natural answer out there but we may never know what it is. But it didn’t happen with the snap of a supernatural finger.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:Do you think because you believe everything is here because of supernatural creation that makes it a fact not to be questioned? That question works two ways. You said, “if others choose to believe we came from nothing.” Well, that same question would be in order for a supernatural deity. Did that come from nothing too?

Your answer is everything was created by an all powerful deity. That might work ok until one stops and thinks, “Who created the creator? That question has never been answered. Oh, people make attempts with answers that don’t really answer or say anything but go around in circles. “God just is”. God is the Alpha and the Omega.” “God has always been”. Etc. But those answers don’t explain anything.

I still feel more comfortable leaning toward a scientific explanation for the universe than one of a creator that no one knows how they came into being. I don’t think we got here or the universe came into being by magical means. There’s a natural answer out there but we may never know what it is. But it didn’t happen with the snap of a supernatural finger.

We disagree and that's fine. All I'm saying is that what you are looking for is for science to explain to you how all this came from nothing, which could not be any clearer to me that can never happen. I'm done and thanks to TRT for his wonderful posts.

jetpilot Wrote:We disagree and that's fine. All I'm saying is that what you are looking for is for science to explain to you how all this came from nothing, which could not be any clearer to me that can never happen. I'm done and thanks to TRT for his wonderful posts.

Thanks for the dialogue and discussion. There’s nothing wrong with having differences of opinions. That’s why we have more than one political party, different thoughts on social issues, different thoughts on many things.
It was nice chatting with you.

TheRealThing Wrote:Yeah I guess there are multiple definitions for what the meaning of is, is, too. I will address what I have bolded at the end of this post. But I am all done arguing with you about whether Christianity is a cult, much less whether Christianity has a scintilla of commonality with Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism.

Other than that which has been set forth in God's Word, God's work among his people and the life and earthly ministry of Christ here on this earth, is laced through the secular writings of every major civilization since the days of King Nebuchadnezzar. Especially those of the Roman Empire, which you contend to have been the perfect storm which gave impetus to a religion which otherwise would have withered on the vine. And perhaps THE most documented historical fact (and the reason Christians have the surety of eternal life) from among all those writings is that of His resurrection from the tomb. Which fact is about to be celebrated over the coming Easter Season this April BTW. And did you know that the peoples of the nations of modern Europe and the United States all descend from Rome?

Our system of dating is a two tier concept, all of time preceding and up to the death of Christ on the cross, BC, and everything after Christ's death on the cross, AD. Our system of law here in this country is based on God's Word. BTW, ever heard of the Book of Romans in the New Testament? And thanks to the statements of Romans, I am not worried that I need to in any way belabor a defense about the validity of God in the minds of men---
Romans 1:16-20 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God has revealed Himself to you, me, everybody. And He has done that through His creation, that is, all that exists around us. Unbelievers, including some scientists, deny that. Preferring, instead of accepting that there is a Creator, to ascribe the existence of the universe as a standing testament unto itself. And that even though the world's most notable scientist on the subject, Stephen Hawkings, within the past week has admitted that prior to time and matter, nothing existed. Again I would ask, WHERE did the exploding space rock whereby the universe supposedly made itself, come from? The answer is everything came from The Rock of Ages.

But Evolution has no more been proven than has the Big Bang. Though I will admit that there are impressive, if only for their sheer complexity, support scaffoldings which have been established by the so-called scientific community. The problem with these ever mutating bodies of evidence being offered up in validation of the theories of evolution and the Big Bang, is as follows. Both are notions which first popped up out of thin air, and the layers of retro-engineered overburden which passes for the underlying scientific justifications, are just baggage loosely pasted on like the layers of a piñata. A piñata can morph from a basketball to a Volkswagen to an elephant. All one has to do is keep layering on the paper-mâché. Exactly the same process was used in giving scientific plausibility to Evolution and the Big Bang.

In the cases of the theories in question, they just walked up to the target and pushed the bullet into the center of the bullseye. And they've been walking it back to a plausible and convenient origin ever since. If you want to call that 100% surety go for it.


Foolish thinking, or the wisdom of man--

[B]1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (KJV)[/B]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There is no natural barrier or partition between spiritual truths and physical or scientific truths. There is however, an impasse of understanding (his own unbelief) through which a man may not pass until and if he becomes a believer in That which is. God as Creator. If something is true it is reality, if it is not true it is a fabrication, a lie if you like. Men have always used unbelief to wall themselves off from the reality of their origin, as well as the reality of their destination. There is no separation between Church and State. Neither is there any wall of separation between Church and science. There is however a wall between man and his Creator which is self imposed, that being unbelief. The unfortunate and eternal ramification of which being the coming of certain judgment.

Men cannot see until darkness is illuminated by light.

"I am the Light of the World." ---Jesus

I’m through discussing this too. But I want to clarify something you said that I stated. You said you was “tired of arguing with me that Christianity was a cult.”
I never said Christianity was a cult. I said it started out as a cult, same as all religions. It outgrew it’s cult status rather quickly though. Christianity is not a cult and hasn’t been for a LONG time. Just like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and other mainstream religions outgrew their cult status many hundreds of years ago. Every religion has to start somewhere and at some time. None of the big religions we see today were always big religions. At one time in their history they were only small gatherings that grew into much bigger followings and spread geographically.
What determines the numbers to change description from cult to religion status is hazy though. Usually the judgement is made as to what is an accepted mainstream religion that’s large enough and widespread enough to be called a religion.

LOOKAYANNER Wrote:I’m through discussing this too. But I want to clarify something you said that I stated. You said you was “tired of arguing with me that Christianity was a cult.”
I never said Christianity was a cult. I said it started out as a cult, same as all religions. It outgrew it’s cult status rather quickly though. Christianity is not a cult and hasn’t been for a LONG time. Just like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and other mainstream religions outgrew their cult status many hundreds of years ago. Every religion has to start somewhere and at some time. None of the big religions we see today were always big religions. At one time in their history they were only small gatherings that grew into much bigger followings and spread geographically.
What determines the numbers to change description from cult to religion status is hazy though. Usually the judgement is made as to what is an accepted mainstream religion that’s large enough and widespread enough to be called a religion.

Point taken and I hope you understand that I was in no way being personal. As I said, God needs no defending, nor does His Son, and neither was His Church ever a cult because, after all, we are talking about God here are we not? However though you pointed out that there are many definitions for what constitutes a cult, in the case of the birth of Christianity I cannot see a reasonable correlation for any definition other than the one I offered.

With that in mind a quick overview of the definitions you offered followed by my response;

> “The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object, or goals.”

In the case of Christianity (as that may apply to how It got started), The Lord personally called His Apostles to join Him on a one-on-one voluntary basis. As such, the original 12 who followed Him in fulltime service would not constitute a social group by any perspective. From fishermen to tax collectors, the Apostles were from widely diverse backgrounds vocationally, socially, or by virtue of their faith. Further, the teachings, goals and beliefs of Jesus contradicted everything being taught by the Orthodoxy of the day. So, the Apostles did not yet share His belief, but they felt an irresistible urging to understand Him. And that is the way with truth, for the pure of heart it's pull is irresistible.

> Here’s another: “A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to rites and ceremonies.”

No rites or ceremony were ever associated with Christianity except the one He established on the eve of His incarceration by the Roman soldiers and religious leaders of the day. That being the Lord's Supper.

> Here’s another: “A group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around sacred symbols.”

Patently obvious on it's face that there is no way this one could be applicable.

> One more: “An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers.”

For this one, owing to the fact that He fed 5,000 people in one sitting, one could make the argument that The Lord had a great many admirers. If that situation did exist however, it was a loose admiration at best and only for a very short time, because from the time of His capture in Gethsemane to His death on the cross, even His disciples deserted Him.

Still though, men are to worship their Creator. To say that any amount of admiration for the Son of God is excessive be it in the flesh or in spirit, and given that He performed countless miracles in servitude of the people, such as healing the sick. And finally in His greatest act of selflessness, to lay down His life on the cross so that all men could live, is/was cultish or in any way excessive or misplaced, is an impossible argument to make. In any case, Christianity stands alone. The other religions of the world however well intended are unfortunately for those adherents, false. Christ is risen, His is to offer men eternal life if they will accept Him as Lord. To make that one choice is the reason all men were created.