Maybe plantman or KMSFA2 could help me out on this, but I was trying to figure out since the association's inception 2008 which teams have the most championship game appearances and which teams have the most championships. I know there are several schools that have had a lot of success.
Brlfry has only participated in 3 tournaments and hasn't had any compitition so far. Every game has end up a little lop sided. At least this year and 2 years ago was. Last year not sure on a few of the scores. But I know we are 3 for 3 and over half of the starting defense comes back next year.
I would imagine the leaders have to be Corbin, Johnson Central, North Pulaski, South Pulaski, Belfry, Bowling Green, and Belfry.
Johnson county has 5 state championship game appearances and 3 state championships.
proud44pirate Wrote:Brlfry has only participated in 3 tournaments and hasn't had any compitition so far. Every game has end up a little lop sided. At least this year and 2 years ago was. Last year not sure on a few of the scores. But I know we are 3 for 3 and over half of the starting defense comes back next year.
Didnt Belfry compete in the 7th grade tournament last year, did they get any competition in it? What was Belfry's final record this year?
Just guessing, but I would say Bowling Green has the most appearances and Corbin has the most championships.
goBIGblue82 Wrote:Didnt Belfry compete in the 7th grade tournament last year, did they get any competition in it? What was Belfry's final record this year?
Belfrys 7th grade is more of a JV team, and last year was 6th grade heavy. We no longer participate because our program isn't set up to compete in 7th grade. Our closest 8th grade playoff score over the last 3 years has been 16 points...
Belfry0304 Wrote:Belfrys 7th grade is more of a JV team, and last year was 6th grade heavy. We no longer participate because our program isn't set up to compete in 7th grade. Our closest 8th grade playoff score over the last 3 years has been 16 points...
You would think they would let the kids that compete for the 8th grade title as 7th and 8th graders compete for the 7th grade title when they are 6th and 7th graders. No one has won both 7th and 8th in the same year, but you have 3 peated in 8th so you would have been able to compete in 7th as well.
Maybe Plantmaninky can answer this...but if Belfry elected to "play up" in Division 1 would they be allowed?
MR. Slate Wrote:Johnson county has 5 state championship game appearances and 3 state championships.
:1: :champ:
2014 - 7th grade
2013 - 8th grade
2012 - 7th grade
It's too bad KYMSFA didn't exist back in the mid/late 90's... JCMS had some teams back then that were amazing. The talent from JCMS is finally starting to stay in the JC school system and the results are paying off at the high school level. JC will get at least one high school state championship in the next four years.
I think it would be interesting if the association changed he the numbers for the divisions. Raise them in each. We have so many teams in d1 that if you raised it some of those teams would fall to d2 which is lacking teams.
EKUAlum05 Wrote:Maybe Plantmaninky can answer this...but if Belfry elected to "play up" in Division 1 would they be allowed?
Would Belfry want to play up? Hasnt Johnson Central beat them multiple times the last 2 seasons? Definitely some stronger competition in Division 1.
goBIGblue82 Wrote:Would Belfry want to play up? Hasnt Johnson Central beat them multiple times the last 2 seasons? Definitely some stronger competition in Division 1.
That's why I ask.
Belfry's Middle School program is not built to try and collect trophies..it is built to best prepare and replenish the High School.
Johnson Central and Belfry play often and it is almost always a super tight game. Last season when JCMS won the 8th Grade Championship it was pretty clear the best team they had played all season was Belfry Middle.
Knowing the Belfry coaches I think they would welcome the opportunity to play Johnson Central in the playoffs and the Pulaski Schools if it means growing their program further.
EKUAlum05 Wrote:That's why I ask.
Belfry's Middle School program is not built to try and collect trophies..it is built to best prepare and replenish the High School.
Johnson Central and Belfry play often and it is almost always a super tight game. Last season when JCMS won the 8th Grade Championship it was pretty clear the best team they had played all season was Belfry Middle.
Knowing the Belfry coaches I think they would welcome the opportunity to play Johnson Central in the playoffs and the Pulaski Schools if it means growing their program further.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt Belfry play many 7th graders up on their 8th grade to give them their best chance at a championship? This in result cuts down on the reps for your 8th graders some of which you will depend on in high school. Best way to raise numbers and reps to prepare all kids is have kids play only respective grade.
Coach_Lockwood Wrote:I think it would be interesting if the association changed he the numbers for the divisions. Raise them in each. We have so many teams in d1 that if you raised it some of those teams would fall to d2 which is lacking teams.
NOT!!!
Allow those teams to simply play UP!
Dont keep raising the numbers because schools will not participate. Its affecting D3 right now with numbers. Current D3 schools already have to compete with 3A high school programs with ONE middle school team. Try having 24 kids on your team (Combined numbers for 7-8th) and you have to compete against schools with over 400 in the 7-8th grade. Competing against a team that dresses over 50 kids and they are considered a D3 school.
Simply allow schools to play up a division, instead of making harder for small schools to even compete.
Another way is this, if you are 1-A high school and you only have ONE middle school then you are DIVISION 3.
If you have more than one middle school, or are 3A- 4A then you are DIVISION 2! Anything larger then you are Division 1.
Well if you allow a team to play up, would you be open to a team that is near the cutoff to
Play down?
And what school in D3 has 400 boys in the school?
Currently these are the divisional #'s
Division 3 - 0-160 males
Division 2 - 161- 235 males
Division 1 - 236 males and up.
D2 has to grow. That may mean that we raise the top of d2.
As far as Belfry is concerned
... We won't beg them to stay in D2 lol
D2 is only a differnece of 75 kids, what if the breakdown was:
D3 0-160
D2 161-320
D1 321 and up
This would make d2 & d3 both 160 males in each school and still keep the Large schools in d1
Belfry did compete in the 7th grade last year. My son was the 7th grade QB but was only in the 6th. We had more 6th graders on the team than 7th. We had a lot of 7th graders that played up on the 8th grade team like this year. I begged the coach last year to allow the 7th graders that was on the 8th grade team to be allowed to play down but he said it would cause confusion since they hadn't all played together. So we took our "6th graders" and tried to play 7th. Yes we got beat but it was a learning experience. I think if our 7th graders from this years team would've gotten to play in the 7th grade tournament we would gave JC a good game. 6 defensive starters on our 8th grade team are in 7th.
I think if your high school is 1 or 2A you play division 3, 3 or 4A you play division 2, 5 or 6A you play division 1. That is if your the only feeder school to your high school. But something needs to change so more teams play division 2. I noticed a couple of teams had dropped or went up from 2 years ago when Belfry won D2. We had played Corbin and Cal that year in the state.
proud44pirate Wrote:I think if your high school is 1 or 2A you play division 3, 3 or 4A you play division 2, 5 or 6A you play division 1. That is if your the only feeder school to your high school. But something needs to change so more teams play division 2. I noticed a couple of teams had dropped or went up from 2 years ago when Belfry won D2. We had played Corbin and Cal that year in the state.
Would not work in Lville, letcher, or Harlan
Coach_Lockwood Wrote:Well if you allow a team to play up, would you be open to a team that is near the cutoff to
Play down?
And what school in D3 has 400 boys in the school?
( Louisa Middle School has one team and three schools to choose from- Blaine K-8, Fallsburg K-8 and Louisa Middle school 6-8. They have one team and all kids in the 7th and 8th play on one team. The combined total of enrollment from 2012-2013 is 406 from these schools.
High school football players who know no better talk about the kids from all schools playing on this team. Fallsburg nor Blaine have a football team which calls for any kid to play on the Louisa Middle School team. These 3 schools make up Lawrence County High School who are 3A.
Before anyone starts complaining that there are no kids that play from there, remember this. Not the number of kids playing but the total number of kids available to play. Just because they do not play does not mean that you do not count them. All the BOYS who are in Band count toward our enrollment, not sure how they do that there?
Currently these are the divisional #'s
Division 3 - 0-160 males
Division 2 - 161- 235 males
Division 1 - 236 males and up.
Here you go.
goBIGblue82 Wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt Belfry play many 7th graders up on their 8th grade to give them their best chance at a championship? This in result cuts down on the reps for your 8th graders some of which you will depend on in high school. Best way to raise numbers and reps to prepare all kids is have kids play only respective grade.
You are not only developing players....but also developing a winning mindset. Regardless of their grade....IMO, you play the best you have....but you prepare them all. Experience is the best teacher. The experience the Belfry kids have gained over the past three seasons is invaluable. Not only in achievement....but in preparation and maturity. Whether you're playing with straight 8th graders or a mix of your best kids regardless of grade.......teaching, coaching and educating are all taking place. Personally I don't see where there's a fixed way of developing and molding young boys/men........as long as "faith, family and football" are at the center of it. That's Belfry's motto........... and we the supporters of the program stand on that.
goBIGblue82 Wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt Belfry play many 7th graders up on their 8th grade to give them their best chance at a championship? This in result cuts down on the reps for your 8th graders some of which you will depend on in high school. Best way to raise numbers and reps to prepare all kids is have kids play only respective grade.
8th graders who aren't as good get reps on the 7th grade team (hence why we don't play in 7th grade playoffs - age limit). What good would it do to have our really good 7th graders playing and dominating 7th grade football? I would rather those kids be playing at the highest level until they can't be "playing up" anymore. For example, what good would it have done Peyton Hensley (who had almost 200 yards against Paducah) to play on a 7th grade team where he would have probably averaged 300 yards a game. Instead, he got to play against JC's 8th graders, and a VERY good Paducah team. IMO, we could have challenged for the 7th grade title this year with all the kids who played up - but it makes more sense to have a strong "varsity" program. Our 7th grade team functions as a fantastic JV team, preparing kids for the 8th grade - where we both attempt to win, but mainly prepare them for BHS.
I really don't even care much for the 7th grade state title. It's great for programs like Johnson County who get to have true 7th grade teams, but for smaller schools it doesn't work because their 7th graders have to play up. Had our 7th graders needed to play up and we would've sucked that'd been fine, their time to challenge for a KYMSFA state title comes next year. Just worked out that they were pretty good.
^^^
To add something... most of the elite talents who are capable of playing up will usually be the same talents who will see playing time as underclassmen at the HS level.
To have that year in Middle School...and usually a year on JV as a Freshman where they play with guys older than them and build chemistry will ultimately best prepare them for varsity football as well.
When Player X is asked as a Sophomore to take on the Juniors and Seniors from a Wayne County, Johnson Central, etc it will be second nature. By contrast if Player X has only played the people his age by the time he is called as Sophomore to step into varsity action it will be an adjustment.
You need not look past belfry's State Championship last year to see evidence that the system works. The Pirates started 5 Freshman in last year's 3A Finals and they made huge plays.
EKUAlum05 Wrote:^^^
To add something... most of the elite talents who are capable of playing up will usually be the same talents who will see playing time as underclassmen at the HS level.
To have that year in Middle School...and usually a year on JV as a Freshman where they play with guys older than them and build chemistry will ultimately best prepare them for varsity football as well.
When Player X is asked as a Sophomore to take on the Juniors and Seniors from a Wayne County, Johnson Central, etc it will be second nature. By contrast if Player X has only played the people his age by the time he is called as Sophomore to step into varsity action it will be an adjustment.
You need not look past belfry's State Championship last year to see evidence that the system works. The Pirates started 5 Freshman in last year's 3A Finals and they made huge plays.
To each his own. I guess I've just never been a fan of the let's pick the 4-5 best athletes and focus all of our attention on making them the best possible players and we can win games mentality. As a coach at a middle school level I would want to send as many quality football players to the high school as possible. By making sure that all kids are given the same amount of attention and really focusing on the "fringe" kids who could really develop into players at the next level. It's always been my opinion that it's not going to be the 2-3 superstars on the team that win championships, but rather the 10-15 role players and make sure they are adequate at their position.
Johnson County 7th grade team plays mostly 8th grade teams during the season. So they are usually playing uphill everyday.
goBIGblue82 Wrote:To each his own. I guess I've just never been a fan of the let's pick the 4-5 best athletes and focus all of our attention on making them the best possible players and we can win games mentality. As a coach at a middle school level I would want to send as many quality football players to the high school as possible. By making sure that all kids are given the same amount of attention and really focusing on the "fringe" kids who could really develop into players at the next level. It's always been my opinion that it's not going to be the 2-3 superstars on the team that win championships, but rather the 10-15 role players and make sure they are adequate at their position.
You get both.
The advanced kids get an extra year of added competitive play... the rest just move into the spotlight the next year.
In the case of Belfry there really isn't much of a choice They simply don't have the numbers to support two teams most years.. which is the common theme for most small to mid sized schools. If Belfry had 35 8th graders and 35 7th graders I am sure they would field two teams... as it stands now that typically is not an option.
EKUAlum05 Wrote:You get both.
The advanced kids get an extra year of added competitive play... the rest just move into the spotlight the next year.
In the case of Belfry there really isn't much of a choice They simply don't have the numbers to support two teams most years.. which is the common theme for most small to mid sized schools. If Belfry had 35 8th graders and 35 7th graders I am sure they would field two teams... as it stands now that typically is not an option.
It was posted on here that Belfry makes the 8th graders that do not start play on the 7th grade team. If playing 7th graders up to get them game experience against tougher competition prepares them for high school, one would assume that playing 8th graders down against younger and lesser competition would not prepare them for the next level. I've been around a small to mid sized school for quite some time. I've seen years with 30 plus kids on each 7th and 8th and years that haven't had 30 kids combined. Yet, playing the teams separately has always worked. Maybe not always produced the W/L record desired, but always prepared the kids. As I said to each his own.
goBIGblue82 Wrote:It was posted on here that Belfry makes the 8th graders that do not start play on the 7th grade team. .
Actually...what Belfry 0304 said was that "some 8th graders will get reps with the 7th grade team". They are not "made to play" with the 7th gr team. Strictly voluntary. However...what has to be acknowledged...is that the 7th grade team only played 2..maybe 3 actual 7th grade teams. The vast majority of games were played against mixed 7th/8th grade teams...or solely 8th grade teams from KY and West Virginia schools. Williamson, Lenore, Logan, Pike Central just to name a few....all played either their 8th grade team...or a mixed 7th/8th team. Again....Belfry uses the 7th grade team more like a JV squad.
Everybody does it different.....