Bluegrassrivals

if this is true, how big are the middle schools and how is this legal in the playoffs of the KMSFA??

snapcat91 Wrote:if this is true, how big are the middle schools and how is this legal in the playoffs of the KMSFA??

I think if all 3 schools feed into the same high school it's fine?

Ryle is a big HS- 6A.
I know they have kids from Gray Middle & Ockerman Middle- maybe even Camp Ernst going there (though I think most who attend Ernst go to Cooper).
But- surely not every kid from each one of those middle schools matriculates on to Ryle do they?
Gray alone is a large middle school as is Ockerman. Camp Ernst isn't far behind - RA Jones is a distant third.
Using some Lexington middle schools as an example- @ Southern, you have some kids who end up at Tates Creek, others @ Henry Clay. Would the case w/ Ryle be any different?
The way most Middle School football in N Ky (ie: the NKMSAA (Northern Ky Middle School Athletic Association) is set up is that one middle school fields one team. So there is Twenhofel, Summit View, Turkeyfoot, Woodland, Campbell Co and Cov Cath. (not to mention Tichenor, Bishop Brossart, Newport, Newport Central Catholic and several others.
In the case of Cov Cath & New Cath- since those High Schools don't have formal Middle Schools (similar to Lex Cath) it is a stipulation that if you are playing for those 7th & 8th grade teams that you are also attending a parochial school in the Covington Diocese- ie: schools like St Agnes, Blessed Sacrament, St Pius & Immaculate Heart of Mary. Some may say that's a big advantage pulling from all those schools- but when you look at the small population of boys at each of those and total them together, I'd wager you come very close to what a single school like Campbell Co or Turkeyfoot has in the way of the male population.
I do know that right or wrong, the NKMSAA did not want to include Union in it's league this year.

Also, I should note- Twenhofel, Woodland & Summit View all feed some portion of their kids to Simon Kenton High School- but each middle school also fields it's own fairly large team (maybe 30+ kids per team).
That is the biggest difference between what Union is doing. If those three schools pooled their kids together to make one team simialr to Union is doing then they would be tough to beat.

Boone Co schools will not allow their middle schools to have football do to the relationships with the Boone Co pee wee football league. However, Boone Co schools have allowed each high school team to start a direct feeder team. These feeder teams have been granted use of facilities and can have booster support, but can not in any way represent the middle schools of Boone Co. The feeder teams may only compose of students who attend Boone Co schools and those students can only play for the feeder team for their district high schoool.

Here is the Breakdown
High School Team/Feeder Team --- Breakdown from middle schools

Ryle/Union Raiders - 100% Gray Middle, 10% RA Jones Middle, 15% Ockerman

Cooper/Union Jaguars - 100% Camp Ernest, 10% Ra Jones, 5% Conner

Cooner/Hebron Cougars (starting in 2012) -- 95% Conner middle

Boone/No Feeder Team -- 85% Ockerman, 80% RA Jones

Where did you hear that Boone Co schools won't allow their middle schools to have football due to the relationships with the Boone Co Pee Wee Football League?
I've never understood that to be true. I know the BCPWFL tried for years and years to form a partnership with the High Schools in terms of aligning themselves up in a district format.
This year I know their Jr (5/6th grade) and Sr (7/8th grade) divisions have finally done that (more out of self preservation I think)- but I never heard that the BCPWFL was, in some way, the reason there was no middle school football.
The fact is, the Boone Co public schools have had a free ride for several decades now as they've never had to support (read, "fund") any middle school football only because they were lucky enough to have the BCPWFL there doing it for them. The league has never asked for- and never received- any funding from the county. At one time it was the largest privately funded pee wee football organization in the state.
What I understand is that it's an all or nothing deal- that the Boone Co schools administration is saying to the middle schools that each school must agree to field a team or none of them will- so apparently they must not all agree. I'd say they are perfectly content not having to fund a sport they've never had to worry about before is probably closer to the heart of it more than anything.

raiders only have like three kids from ockerman but they are going to ryle ocerman also feeds ryle

all boone county is going in the direction of feeding the schools with kids from their area

bluedad1 Wrote:Ryle is a big HS- 6A.
I know they have kids from Gray Middle & Ockerman Middle- maybe even Camp Ernst going there (though I think most who attend Ernst go to Cooper).
But- surely not every kid from each one of those middle schools matriculates on to Ryle do they?
Gray alone is a large middle school as is Ockerman. Camp Ernst isn't far behind - RA Jones is a distant third.
Using some Lexington middle schools as an example- @ Southern, you have some kids who end up at Tates Creek, others @ Henry Clay. Would the case w/ Ryle be any different?
The way most Middle School football in N Ky (ie: the NKMSAA (Northern Ky Middle School Athletic Association) is set up is that one middle school fields one team. So there is Twenhofel, Summit View, Turkeyfoot, Woodland, Campbell Co and Cov Cath. (not to mention Tichenor, Bishop Brossart, Newport, Newport Central Catholic and several others.
In the case of Cov Cath & New Cath- since those High Schools don't have formal Middle Schools (similar to Lex Cath) it is a stipulation that if you are playing for those 7th & 8th grade teams that you are also attending a parochial school in the Covington Diocese- ie: schools like St Agnes, Blessed Sacrament, St Pius & Immaculate Heart of Mary. Some may say that's a big advantage pulling from all those schools- but when you look at the small population of boys at each of those and total them together, I'd wager you come very close to what a single school like Campbell Co or Turkeyfoot has in the way of the male population.
I do know that right or wrong, the NKMSAA did not want to include Union in it's league this year.

The reason is simple Union or Ryle whatever you call it would beat every team in the NKMSAA and that is why. I can tell you that every kid on both 7th and 8th grade teams attend Ryle high school per the high school boundaries.

hardcore1 Wrote:The reason is simple Union or Ryle whatever you call it would beat every team in the NKMSAA and that is why. I can tell you that every kid on both 7th and 8th grade teams attend Ryle high school per the high school boundaries.

Why doesn't all 3 middle schools have a football team? Scott Co. has 3 middle schools, and all 3 have football teams. That seems to be working out for Scott Co.

hopefully soon they will but with Boone county peewee that hasn't happened yet to be the best you must play the best they are still just eighth grade boys playing a game why is there a problem if Ryle has talented boys wanting to play for them. The second year program is somthing to be proud of not condemed. Let them play they are kids being apart of a great game and school,RYLE.

^ Great post. People getting this hung up on 12 and 13 year-old's are completely missing the point of sports for a 12-13 year-old in the first place. All this does is build doubt into the kids who would have to play such teams, and that doubt that goes into the kids minds is a 100% result of the parents giving those kids ready-made excuses!

Boone County will never allow their Middle Schools to have a true team because of money. Why should they, if parents are going to pay which means they get their cake and eat it too at the County level. The only problem I have with it is they have a 7th grade, a 8th grade and a team made up of kids in both 7th and 8th that are not good enough to play on the so called stand alone teams. So when these kids get to Ryle they have already been classified. So I am sure if Scott County took it's all stars from the 3 middle schools their team would be a lot better then 3 stand alone teams. I prefer the old fashioned way myself, it is about the kids, especially when we are talking about 13 and 14 yr old KIDS. Winning at all cost is not the answer. I also found out that some kids on the Union Raiders played in some Ryle freshmen games, which I think is illegal but maybe I am wrong. The Coach at Ryle is a win at all cost type of guy so this is why he started this push for feeder teams.

New Mexico Wrote:Boone County will never allow their Middle Schools to have a true team because of money. Why should they, if parents are going to pay which means they get their cake and eat it too at the County level. The only problem I have with it is they have a 7th grade, a 8th grade and a team made up of kids in both 7th and 8th that are not good enough to play on the so called stand alone teams. So when these kids get to Ryle they have already been classified. So I am sure if Scott County took it's all stars from the 3 middle schools their team would be a lot better then 3 stand alone teams. I prefer the old fashioned way myself, it is about the kids, especially when we are talking about 13 and 14 yr old KIDS. Winning at all cost is not the answer. I also found out that some kids on the Union Raiders played in some Ryle freshmen games, which I think is illegal but maybe I am wrong. The Coach at Ryle is a win at all cost type of guy so this is why he started this push for feeder teams.

I don't believe that is true, but I can find out. If so, you are correct, the player should be staying with the HS team once he moves up.

Yes, this is absolutely true. The running back and DE/ WR do. Physically, they are ready.
Playing up is legal- playing down, obviously is not.
Now whether there is some line crossed about playing both 8th grade & freshman ball is debatable, but I tend to agree that once they move up, they should stay moved up. I know the RB should be in the 9th grade anyway- not as sure about the DE/ WR.
Their 8th grade team has several holdback players who should be in the 9th grade, but that seems to be part for the course state wide anyway.

I didn't say I agreed with the NKMSAA not allowing them in, just saying they didn't. Afraid of getting beat isn't the reason. The more likely reason is that Union pulls from three middle schools vs having each middle school field an individual team- whether those kids all end up attending Ryle or not.
As I said before, if Twenhofel, Summit View & Woodland created a similar format & pooled all the kids who were going to Simon Kenton together, it would be a tough, tough team.
I guarantee that Campbell Co and probably even Cov Cath would give Union a run for their money this year.

bluedad1 Wrote:Yes, this is absolutely true. The running back and DE/ WR do. Physically, they are ready.
Playing up is legal- playing down, obviously is not.
Now whether there is some line crossed about playing both 8th grade & freshman ball is debatable, but I tend to agree that once they move up, they should stay moved up. I know the RB should be in the 9th grade anyway- not as sure about the DE/ WR.
Their 8th grade team has several holdback players who should be in the 9th grade, but that seems to be part for the course state wide anyway.

Both 20 and 81 were born in the Feb/March range of the same year. They willl both turn 15 this school year (after the new year). It also appears unless there was a typo that there is a player who was born in 96 making him 15 already. Might have been a typo but by rule he is too old to play.

he would not be too old too play if his birthdate was after august 1st of 1996.by rule a player cannot be 15 before august first to be elgible but on august 2nd he can play that season...continues the theme in high school where u cannot play your senior season if you turn 19 before august 1st..

marooncountry Wrote:he would not be too old too play if his birthdate was after august 1st of 1996.by rule a player cannot be 15 before august first to be elgible but on august 2nd he can play that season...continues the theme in high school where u cannot play your senior season if you turn 19 before august 1st..

I am very well aware of the rule. He was listed as 1/2/96 on the roster and by that he would be to old by about 8 monthes. More than likely it was a typo on the roster but I am surprised it wasn't caught.

As far as playing Frosh ball and playing 8th grade goes. That is a little bush league.

The Union Raiders have players from two middle schools, Ockerman and Gray. I know of no other middle schools with players on the roster. If you look at the rules of the governing body you will see that "feeder" teams as you refer too are allowed within the guidelines set forth therein. Being refused entry into another league is a non issue for the other fifth, six and seventh grade teams. They are members of the NKYFL. There are ABSOLUTELY no over age, or purposefully held back boys on any of these teams. The running back that you keep referring to failed an early grade due to excess absence over illness. His parents could not plan on him becoming so ill in order to hold him back so that the Union Raiders (not in existence at that time) could play him. Further there are no 16 year old illegal players on the roster either. Birth certificates were attached with all players registrations and are on file with the league officials. A player, also within the rule guidelines may play up into the next level but he can not play down. There is no rule against playing on the current legally restricted team and playing up into the next (freshmen) level at the same time. In the eight years that I was involved with the BCPWFL with four children, the league officials refused to work with the local high schools. It was proposed by all of the high schools to have two teams per school assigned, coached and maintained with the BCPWFL. The league officials specifically the prior two league presidents adamantly refused to do so. Egos over control issues and the shortsightedness of the officials have put them into their boat. Cooper High School recently introduced their "feeder" team, the Union Jaguars. When they become a worthy foe as the Union raiders have become, you will pick at them with the same questions, needling, and prodding that you have aimed at the Union raiders. Both of the Union teams are coached by former coaches and league officials of the BCPWFL. Everyone lives in their own world of egocentric-ism. If you don't like change, or the status quo that you can not change, you will find fault in everything but yourself.

In our first season, 2010, the Union Raidersseventh graders, now the eight grade team, beat the Campbell Cty 2010 eighth grade team at Campbell County by over 30 points. I don't think Campbell county would field a better team in any rematch

That's not bush league, that's talent and ability.

Not true. Union Raiders are from Gray Middle School, which is the Ryle High School district.

sg260573 Wrote:Not true. Union Raiders are from Gray Middle School, which is the Ryle High School district.

and from Ockerman Middle. Whats not true about that?

smoking44s Wrote:and from Ockerman Middle. Whats not true about that?

100 of the kids%???

Gray Middle School Enrollment-991 students. Ockerman Middle School Enrollment - 830 students. With no eligibility requirments, since they claim on their website they are not officially affiliated with Boone County Schools, that must be a tough job for the coaches to find any players. Good luck in the playoffs Raiders, I'm sure all the other Middle Schools throughout the state are pulling for you as well!:hilarious:

^ What's that supposed to mean???

Stardust, between you, me and the Maysville BULL dog, that makes three of us that doesn't know what he means! BTW, where is Maysville in the playoffs???????

Maysville no longer is a school so they don't have a team. There is Mason Co which is in a confrence that plays well into the state playoff. Past the last sentence the rest of the post should be pretty clear.

Total student population of the two schools is around 1821 which would be a fairly large HS. Now of that population they only us 2 grades for classifiaction and you figure about half of those are female students. Meaning the male enrollment of the two schools combined is maybe some where around 303 male students. I would have to look at the enrollment numbers but that would put Ryle/Union around the top of enrollment numbers. By comparision the average would be 150 males or so in D1.

As far as the kids playing up on the HS frosh team and it being talent and ability. Both said players will turn 15 this year like many freshman. So playing up has more to do with age and development of the body than talent. Many schools do play 8th graders up on the frosh level but those players stay there.

One simple fact is that because of its structure there will be many questions about Union. Some of which are very similar to those asked about Lexington Catholic. It took a 2-3 years for those questions to be answered about LC.

For example, since Union is not a school team how are things checked such as grades, discipline and attendance? How are address comfirmed? It is listed that if you are employeed by the Boone Co school district you may play on the team and yet you do not have to live nor attend school in the district.

Union has an excellent team. It seems that the Boone Co. school system can fix the entire gray area by affiliating these kids with their proper high school and giving them a true identity. If all of those kids are infact Ryle bound, it will be a very good team to watch for the next four years.