I was 9-1 in eighth grade, only loosing by a two point conversion. Think that was the only time we were scored on. As a senior our team was 2-8 and horrible. Talking to my buddy the other day said they were the opposite, won two games in middle school but made it to the final game his senior year coming up short of a ring. I started thinking about other good eighth grade teams that were good the last few years and can't remember seeing any the first week of Dec. four years later. Thoughts?????
8th grade teams at best play with and against two classes....7th graders and 8th graders. Once you enroll in high school you will play with 7 different classes, the 3 classes ahead of you and when you are a senior,the 3 classes below you and your class. Success just does not depend on your class but more so on the classes around you.That is called a program compared to a school that has a good team every 5-10 years.
new o Wrote:8th grade teams at best play with and against two classes....7th graders and 8th graders. Once you enroll in high school you will play with 7 different classes, the 3 classes ahead of you and when you are a senior,the 3 classes below you and your class. Success just does not depend on your class but more so on the classes around you.That is called a program compared to a school that has a good team every 5-10 years.
Good point.
plus
1. Coaching makes a huge difference not only during the games but in the off-season as well (I remember for years teams here in Bell Co. loosing to m'boro and corbin in middle school only to kill em in High School)
2. Players leaving/quiting or moving
3. Work ethic as a team
4. Competition that a team plays
There have been many teams at Whitley who didnt lose a game in middle school and then get to high school and not have a playoff win.
^ Same at Campbell County. Camels middle school teams have went undefeated in the past few years. Right now, the Frosh has yet to win a game
I thougth Campbell Co has lost to Cov Cath's MS program the last 2 years?
If you look at the MS playoffs the last few years and then look at the HS level it is beginning to match up some.
John Harden is one of the top teams in the state and their MS won the first MS title 3 years ago so those kids are Jr. Bell Lost to them but those Bell players are playing now.
Bowling Green won it the next year and they are one of the top programs with a number of those kids playing.
There are a number of reasons there is not a direct translation. I know one of them is the fact that on a MS team older players such as holdbacks have a much bigger impact than they do on the HS level.
Bobcat_Dad Wrote:Good point.
plus
1. Coaching makes a huge difference not only during the games but in the off-season as well (I remember for years teams here in Bell Co. loosing to m'boro and corbin in middle school only to kill em in High School)
2. Players leaving/quiting or moving
3. Work ethic as a team
4. Competition that a team plays
Players peaking in Jr. high a never getting any better. Same at Raceland as far as coaches go. We loose to some teams in jr. high only to crush them at the high school level.
Bobcat_Dad Wrote:Good point.
plus
1. Coaching makes a huge difference not only during the games but in the off-season as well (I remember for years teams here in Bell Co. loosing to m'boro and corbin in middle school only to kill em in High School)
2. Players leaving/quiting or moving
3. Work ethic as a team
4. Competition that a team plays
Don't forget about the girls:biggrin:
The difference though is back when i played you didnt have the format of the way the middle school is not with the state championship and all that. I think it really does translate now as they play on the statewide level.
We played for conference championships back when i was in school. I think my 8th grade year we played Bell, Mboro, Knox North, Knox South, Harlan, Clay County, and a couple more from around here. As you can see, while we didnt lose a game, we didnt really travel to any other parts of the state either. Now with a simlar set up to the khsaa, to win you have to play other teams and have a state playoff system.
If your middle school team isn't built on holdbacks then it could translate over to the high school level. There is a big difference in physical maturity between 13 year olds and 14-15 years old, that is why SOME middle school teams seem to be awesome. There are several teams in this end of the state that have superb middle school teams-not going to say who but if you're smart you should be able to guess- but those teams are all built on holdbacks. They may be some of the best teams in the state right now, but I don't expect that to translate over to high school because I've seen it all before. Once you get in high school, everyone is on an even playing field.
Bell County is bulit on holdbacks and has always been a top program at the high school level. I agree there isnt as big of a difference between a 19 year old and a 17 as there is between a 15 and 13. Knox county used to be the laughing stock of the state 5-6 years ago and now they are a very solid program. one thing that changed in this time period is implenting junior football and kids starting to hold back. Coaching also improved. I am a firm believer in holding back kids, I feel it benefits them in school and athletically. The argument will never end holdback vs not. Parents who dont believe in it wont believe in it and parents that do will always support it. When a child graduates at 17 they arent physically or mentally ready to tackle the decisions that they are going to face in college. In college students are beasically held back all the time, they just call it a redshirt. So the kid who is 17 as a senior in high school and doesnt redshirt ends up playing against people who could 5-6 years older in college. No one will ever change my mind on the issue just as I will never change anyone else's.
RichBrooks Wrote:Bell County is bulit on holdbacks and has always been a top program at the high school level. I agree there isnt as big of a difference between a 19 year old and a 17 as there is between a 15 and 13. Knox county used to be the laughing stock of the state 5-6 years ago and now they are a very solid program. one thing that changed in this time period is implenting junior football and kids starting to hold back. Coaching also improved. I am a firm believer in holding back kids, I feel it benefits them in school and athletically. The argument will never end holdback vs not. Parents who dont believe in it wont believe in it and parents that do will always support it. When a child graduates at 17 they arent physically or mentally ready to tackle the decisions that they are going to face in college. In college students are beasically held back all the time, they just call it a redshirt. So the kid who is 17 as a senior in high school and doesnt redshirt ends up playing against people who could 5-6 years older in college. No one will ever change my mind on the issue just as I will never change anyone else's.
Hold backs should not happen unless a child needs it ACADEMICALLY. True, some kids are not physically mature enough at 13-14, but the academics are the most important part. Heck, I graduated at 17 and didn't even fill out until my 20's, hold back would have done NOTHING for me, and would have hurt me academically because I would have had no incentive to study hard, having already passed the grade once. Schools that make holdbacks a regular part of their routine, or encourage it ONLY for sports, are doing their kids a disservice.
As for your argument about 17 year olds not being mentally ready or physically ready for college aged decisions, etc., that is bull hockey. It happens every day with non-athletes, and they are more than ready. I know you said no one can change your mind, that is fine. But I believe it is a case by case basis, and should not be a rule of thumb.
The KMSFA keeps many stats. We also track many of the players of programs that have been involved in programs that play in the KMSFA.
This will be our 4th year of having state championships. You have to remember that in 2008 there were only 32 members of the KMSFA. That would put that class of 8th graders as seniors this year.
Again, just an FYI.
Kids should be held back for 1. Academics 2. Maturity 3. Athletics. If 3 is the ONLY reason then I disagree with doing it!!!
Another factor is the size of the middle school For example a school is 5a and only have one middle school verses a county that is 5a and have two or three middle schools. The bigger middle school usually wins but when they combine like scott co has three middles schools and gets beat regularly in middle school but in high school it's a whole different animal.